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Miracles In Progress 12 Step Recovery Forums -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Al-Anon Family Group -> The "Family Disease"
Post Info TOPIC: The "Family Disease"
Michael72


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RE: The "Family Disease"
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I have hurt her in the past. I apologized many times, many times with tears in my eyes, because I was remorseful. I tried to change, to not make the same mistake again, but my wife seemed to be unwilling or unable to forgive or let go. She would say she forgave, but constantly bring it up to use against me. Some stuff from 10, 12, 15 years ago. There's nothing I can do except apologize, mean it, and try to make the changes I have to, to not do it again.

Hotrod, the poem was beautiful. I only hope I can get to that point some day.

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hotrod


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I do too Michael-- You are a good man and are in my prayers.

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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud
a4l


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Michael, I can identify with you as a double and an acoa. Maybe that makes many of us triples lol. Labels aside, your wifes behaviours to me sound like wanting attention without knowing why or how. Sickness. I can relate to that when I let myself slide or relapse into codependency. Notice me! Fight for me! Hurt over me! Just don't let me look at me, because anger is my sheild. Its toxic but it keeps me numb. Ignore me and ill blame you. Feed me and ill drain you without meaning to. Its just what I do when I'm sick. Conclusion: you can't put a healthy thought feeling or word into a sick mind and expect it to come out still healthy. I've recently realised that me picking stuff to pieces just makes me feel worse. What can you do with what you've got? Maybe in some instances, nothing. Acceptance doesnt neccesarily mean liking a thing. But it nails it to one piece of the picture of life. In other areas there may be choices. You have a job and recovery, and like Hotrod, I sense a good person. Keep coming back.

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Mattie


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Michael, you wrote: "To be honest, I'm not sure how I feel. I guess I haven't reached that point where I know what to do next."  I imagine that is exactly where your wife is coming from.  From what I read, you are both in the same boat - attached but full of pain and the anger that comes along with that pain.  And, as I think we all have experienced, both of you are saying "I've done everything I can, but the other person is so unreasonable that I can't get my head straight."

One thing I've seen in my relationship with my A is that he has much less understanding of what it's like to be with an alcoholic than I do.  He saw it from the inside instead of being sober and experiencing it from the outside.  And I have noticed among A's of my acquaintance that typically they think the other person should just accept apologies and "just get over" the pain and difficulty of being the collateral damage of alcoholism.

But here's a way to understand what it's like - it's like what you're experiencing now.  Your wife is sober (as I understand - but maybe she isn't? but assuming she is), but she's behaving the way an alcoholic behaves.  The irrationality, the swings of attitude, the indifference to your pain, the chaos, the self-centeredness.  Your understandable inability to feel okay about her behavior is exactly the same response she's had to your years of alcoholism.  I know you may say "But I've apologized for all that."  I'm afraid an apology is good and helpful, but it doesn't take it all away.  If she came and apologized to you tomorrow, that would be a start, but it wouldn't put the relationship back where the chaos had never happened.

My point is that maybe you can identify a little bit with her inability to move past those years of alcoholism.  Because now you're in her position.  You're the sober bystander and she's the out-of-control one inflicting the pain.  And it's hard just to get over it, isn't it?

If she can't move beyond the history, the healthy thing would be for her to leave the marriage before she goes gadding around with some new guy. Unfortunately we get so worn down that we can't hardly see what the healthy thing to do is anymore.  But you too know that the healthy thing to do would be to separate from her, but you can't bring yourself to do that either.  So maybe you can also identify with the fact that she's too overwhelmed with pain to get her head straight right now.

I think the solution has to be to work your program as hard as you possibly can, and develop more and more tools to take good care of yourself.  When you get healthier and stronger, the whole dynamic gets healthier and stronger.  That can't help but be good.

I know how incredibly painful it is.  Do everything you can to take good care of yourself.



-- Edited by Mattie on Sunday 20th of March 2016 01:40:02 AM

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Iamhere


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Michael - we only get one side of the relationship and that is the view through your eyes - your truth. For you and us, her truth does not matter and may never be fully known. As a double winner with co-dependent tendencies, I can say that before I chose to embrace Al-Anon, I spent tons of wasted time trying to figure out why another was the way they were. It truly was counter-productive and kept me sick - very sick - focused on what others were doing, why they were doing and why they wanted to hurt me.

When I embraced Al-Anon, as a person in recovery already, and began to actually listen and accept I did not know everything I began to change. The disease is not personal, yet we Al-Anons tend to personalize the actions of another. The disease does not discriminate, and does affect family members and friends beyond the drinker. I learned that when family members don't chose recovery in one side or the other, they stay stuck, miserable, over-analyzing and for-ever blaming of others - and acting out as if the disease is still active.

Whether you are doing anything now to upset her or not, it really doesn't matter. Whether she makes good choices or not, acts out or not, it doesn't matter. What matters is that your peace of mind and serenity are at risk and you are unable to focus on your recovery. When I was at this place, I truly knew that drinking was not a choice for my pain. I knew deep down that I had to seek recovery, accept things exactly as they are and save myself.

Those who came before me in Al-Anon showed me how. They helped me stop looking at everything that was wrong in my life and focus on what was working. We aren't allowed to discuss our qualifier in our meetings and they kept directing me back to how I felt, how I acted, how I reacted - over and over and over again. Whether she does or does not have an active substance issue really doesn't matter - she appears to be an untreated person affected by this disease in some way who currently doesn't want recovery. You did not cause this, you can not control this and you can not cure this.

When I arrived in Al-Anon, I had 3 active qualifiers in my home. I had spent years trying to anticipate their next move, projecting what today was going to bring and feeling sorry for myself and my situation. What I learned was to put me first, plan my day with my needs and then populate their needs around that. Set boundaries, walk away from insane discussions, don't take it personally and stop taking their inventory -- take my own. I surrendered to the disease and it's affect on me and my family and stopped taking it reacting.  I stopped assuming how they were is how they would always be and just decided to stop being a victim.

We learn in Al-Anon that the only person we can change in us. We can choose to be stuck, bitter, angry, sad, mad or not. We can choose to recover or not. We can choose to live our life or exist only. Nobody has the power over me or my life today to cause me to act or react a certain way. No matter what I have done in the past, it doesn't affect another person's actions today. To assume you are the reason she is as she is today is more Ego that we in recovery can afford. She's doing what she's going to do - you have to ask yourself - what are you going to do? We have a slogan, "Nothing changes if nothing changes" - perhaps, just for today, you can choose to breathe, be gentle with you, make a gratitude list and an asset list, go to a meeting, take a walk - something else you enjoy - just for today, give yourself a reprieve from thinking, analyzing, dwelling or obsessing about what's not working.

We are here for you and you are not alone. Keep coming back and know that no matter how much we know/learn, this disease is powerful, progressive and pervasive. (((Hugs)))



-- Edited by Iamhere on Sunday 20th of March 2016 12:04:06 PM



-- Edited by Iamhere on Sunday 20th of March 2016 12:06:48 PM

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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 
Michael72


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Went to my AA meeting tonight and there was a newcomer there with her little 2 year old son Tyler. I bring clementines with me to the meetings, so I give him one. He asks for another and sits down next to me to eat it. He asks if he can have potato chips from the vending machine, so I ask his mom. He wants me to carry him to the machine, so I do. We put the money in, he presses the buttons to make his selection, then I carry him back and he sits next to me for the rest of the meeting. After the meeting he gives me a big hug, and I make him promise to keep bringing his mom back.

He was exactly what I needed, and I haven't felt this good in a long time. I hope I see him again.

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LinSC


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He was an angel sent to comfort you, Michael 



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Iamhere


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The "Family Disease"
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Michael - I have 2 grandsons - one is 2.5 and the other is a baby!  They bring me joy, joy and more joy through their innocence and pure joy!!

Thank you for sharing your ESH from your meeting - brightened my day!



-- Edited by Iamhere on Tuesday 22nd of March 2016 11:31:26 PM

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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 
Jerry F


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Mike I learned how to take everything with a grain of salt when my alcoholic/addict was trying to make sense to herself and everyone else.  Like your wife mine was active in the disease and I had learned in the program that when we were active the disease owned our minds, bodies, spirits and emotions.  That was Step two dedication time...just two and nothing else because life was insane 24/7.  It is no wonder at all that the last word of that step is sanity, "a continuous and orderly process of thought".  Getting humble meant being teachable so I left the teaching up to HP and the elders of the program and just strived to keep and open mind.  I still do that because I do what works.  I know the pain is numbing and horrible and quiet times are like waiting for someone to read me the death sentence however the only thing that happened was that the program worked when I worked it and I got recovery. and I could feel and understand my Higher Power and it's promise of  



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pinkchip


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Time will reveal if your marriage is meant to last. Ultimately, if someone is expressing a desire to be free of me and coupling it with contempt of me as a person, they can hit the road, as painful as that is for me. I love myself too much to get tarred like that on a daily basis. So when I say I hope you love yourself more than her or anyone else, I hope you know that is not selfish or cruel. It is a must.

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Michael72


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My wife texted me this morning wanting to get the ball moving on the divorce, dividing up the assets, the property, what we're gonna do with the kids. I was hurting, so I went to an AA meeting. I ran into a friend I've known for 20 years through the rooms. I started talking to her after the meeting about what was going on, and she went through a similar situation when she first came into the rooms.

Out of nowhere, she snapped and said - "Mike, I can't. You're really getting on my f*cking nerves", and walked away.

I couldn't hold it together on the way home, and hit my knees and began crying. God's plan, huh? For me to experience as much pain as I can take, and my loved ones and friends to tell me to get away from them.


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Jaclyn


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First - it is great that when you were hurting, you went to AA (as opposed to isolating or pushing down your feelings). It is great that you opened up to a friend. It sounds like her unfortunate reaction was more about her and what was going on within herself, rather than you being the one to upset her. Try to remember that and maybe text a close friend or relative and ask if it's a good time to talk. This could help ensure you get the support you need/are not further let down. Just an idea.

Secondly, I am so sorry that your wife is ready to proceed with the divorce. That kills no matter which way you look at it. From following your thread - I'd say the one positive that can be drawn is that you will finally be out of limbo... Where you have been suffering for quite a bit.

I am very much struggling, and can so relate to the feeling of resentment, anger, pain, you name it - toward "God's plan".

I hope you find some peace soon.



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Mirandac


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Divorce is a very painful journey i am
so sorry michael.

It does get better when its over and
You can begin to heal.

I still keep up with my support Groups
And attend church.

Talk to only supportive loving people,
Its really a time for self protecting from
Any more or new pain. You have enough
already.

(((((( michael)))))

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hotrod


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I am sorry that your wife has presented this to you Michael. As far as discussing your situation with another AA member who went through something similar. I think that it may have brought up painful memories for her and that is why she shut down. It is probably a better idea to talk to your sponsor who knows the entire situation and whom you trust.
As far as pain is concerned I have been told that what does not kill you makes you stronger. This his pain will pass and you will find yourself renewed and a little wiser, more courageous then before.

The C2C quote for today is from, Peter Marshall; "when we long for life without difficulties, remind us that Oak grows strong in contrary winds and diamonds are made under pressure."

 

Prayers on the way, Remember HP is walking with you and you are not alone



--



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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud
Michael72


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Well, here's an update -

We went for a walk a few nights ago to talk, for the first time in 5 weeks or so. My wife tells me the more time that goes by, the more she doubts a divorce is what she wants. She said she might be making the biggest mistake of her life, but she's not happy, and doesn't know what to do about it.

I continue to go to my meetings to work on myself (celebrated 20 years of continuous sobriety on April 1, woo-hoo!!), but continue to understand I can't fix what's wrong with her, what's bothering her.

I don't know where our marriage goes from here, but I continue to pray for her. Hopefully she reaches out for the help she needs instead of acting out in dangerous, wreckless ways.

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Jerry F


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Michael you and I and other recovering alcoholics now know and know that we know what the problem is/was...alcohol that mind and mood  ALTERING CHEMICAL.  She is altered and her mind, spirit, emotions and physical make up are all also altered; sometimes all at one time and at other time maybe just one of those four.  She says she doesn't know and you didn't either at that time when you were drinking to excess...let her know that you know what she is going thru and be honest about all of the feelings and thoughts and physical characteristics you earned and then tell her simply what you did/are doing about it.  You are not trying to sponsor her you are being compassionate and empathetic with another alcoholic who also happens to be your wife.   While you do this...if you do this I will be in the Pacific, on my island nation, with hundreds of other alcoholic brothers and sisters saying prayers for her.   Please keep us in the loop.   ((((hugs))))  smile



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Iamhere


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Michael - congrats. on the 20 years - one day at a time - it's a grand journey!!

With my qualifiers, I try to 'act as if' they are -

- Not my husband, child, relative
- Just another imperfect human affected by this disease
- Doing the best they have with what they know
- Worthy of recovery, love, empathy & compassion
- One I am just carrying the message of recovery to

When my sons are hurting, I listen as best I can with closed lips. When they finish, I tell them I am sorry for their pain. I don't offer more nor do I suggest as they go on the defensive. However, if/when they ask, I put my program hat on, and ask God to help me see them as his child/not mine.

My AH was in the program for 7+ years. He never brings up recovery and neither do I. I work my program, he does his thing and it works. We don't go out of our way to hurt each other, and I just accept him as he is. So, I don't have that opportunity to talk with, at, to him much. When he brings an issue, I do the same though - listen with closed lips. Empathize and keep my mouth closed unless I am asked.

It is is keeping my mouth closed that those I love have learned many of their own lessons. It is so easy to be in recovery and want to lead them to peace.....however, I know from personal experience that it just doesn't work that way.

Prayers for you both. It's great that she's talking!!

__________________

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 
hotrod


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Congrats on your 20th sober  anniversary. Prayers and positive thoughts on the way



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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud
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