Michael, it sounds like she is moving in a direction you don't want to go. You must take care of yourself, and prepare yourself. Ask around at your meetings for someone you can talk to about legal advice about abandonment, eviction, you have rights Mike find out what they r ahead of time, so you know what she can do and can't. My prayers r with you, stay close to your program.

linsc 

In that kind of situation I like to say "you can outline what you want to discuss and then give me time to think it over", then we've both had time to consider and I can't be manipulated into some sort of reactionary freak out that plays into some predetermined means. (wow do i sound paranoid lol.
I would be inclined to want to know what she wants to discuss just in case there is some kind of resolution to be found that I hadn't thought of. Sometimes people can be surprising. If it's just nonsense then you can go back to staying away from it without wondering?

Anyway I'm just brainstorming, it all sounds unbearable to me.
Hugs.

"and this Melody Beattie lady is a genius"

 

Codependent No More changed my life. It is what brought me to Al Anon.

 

Ive been lurking and reading your post the last couple days. So sorry to hear what you are going through. There are still times that even though my A is working the program, that I recognize bitterness and resentment in me and makes me want to be

mean to him really for nothing other than the past. Not justifying, but I'm assuming that's where she is at in her head is a real deep way. Praying for strength and health for you both.

-- Edited by kspec85 on Monday 14th of March 2016 01:32:26 PM

I have that one on ebook, i wish i had a real
One. I still might just order it, i started then
Stopped. It was not talking to me.

I love her other book and carry it every where.
Letting go, its very alanon yet softer and not
So much program as our daily readers.

(((( hugs ))))

So sorry for what you're going through with your wife. I truly understand the pain, fear, and exhaustion. I hope very much that your wife comes around and gets help, but even more so - I wish you peace no matter what. Hang in there.

(((Michael ))) I am so very sorry that you have endured such painful experiences as the result of growing up with the dreadful disease of alcoholism. Growing up with the disease unfortunately , we develop destructive(to ourselves ) coping tools in order to survive the painful events of our childhood. I can readily identify with your ability to forgive your father and the compassion and kindness that you exhibit in all your interactions. You have a huge heart my friend and deserve respect and appreciation .

Alanon suggests that we start to treat ourselves with the same love and compassion that we show to others . We can do this by keeping the focus on ourselves, learning how to make sure we "HALT" - not get too hungry, angry, lonely or tired, be gentle with ourselves and learn how to do something for fun. We also need to make amends to ourselves for all the times we made our needs invisible in order to make others happy.

Rest, pray, take deep breaths and know you are not alone. .

M72, what does "Done" mean to you? what does it look like? Is this a positive move for you? Will you set up boundaries for yourself? Will you let those around you know what you want your life to look like now? Standup for yourself....you r worth it.

respectfully Linsc 

No, this "done" doesn't feel positive at all.

Going back to meetings is like waking up from a coma after 15 years. And now I have a clearer head, and feel everything again. I have to get a divorce now. It's not what I want, and I still love her, there just isn't any other option.

I'm with a woman who doesn't respect me, took her wedding rings off, is having an affair with a guy from her office, blames me for the affair because I should have treated her right, says I destroyed her life, I was never there for her, she could never count on me, I do very little good things, and when I tell her to go see an attorney, she's not sure what she wants.

Do you know how painful this is? As I go to meetings and my self worth goes up, my self esteem, how I feel about myself, and then I go home to the woman I love, who because of her untreated sickness, is acting the way she is.

How much fight am I supposed to have? I'm getting tired of always trying to be the best I can be, and it's never good enough.

-- Edited by Michael72 on Wednesday 16th of March 2016 09:54:08 PM

I get you, sending you a warm loving hug.

(((((( michael))))

Extra hugs. It is draining. I'm sorry to hear of your pain it sounds very unfair and like a powerless situation. There's such a lot of pressure on you emotionally and psychologically. Is there a place you can go to just chill out away from all this bs? Sending you lots of positive thoughts.

Michael I have been reading your posts and although I haven't replied I understand what you are going through. I, too, am in NJ (South) and am having trouble finding alanon meetings. One a week here and there...tons of AA...but very little Alanon. The meeting times are at night and I cannot leave my handicapped son. I understand your frustration with your wife, its hard when you realize what you want is very different from what they want. I still find myself on the roller coaster of my RAH (sometimes not recovering) but its getting better and I find myself back and forth with the boundaries and detachment and dealing with the emotional manipulation. However, I was very proud of myself yesterday when he came to me after I told him I finally got my IRS refund the day before asking me to give him a 4k loan so that he could buy a new truck. He felt he needed a new truck since he was a new "man" and improved version and called himself "------ 2.0" This was on his agenda when he scheduled a talk. I avoided it for a couple of hours but I decided to pull up my big girl panties and deal...I was surprised at the tools I had already learned. I was able to detach and calmly explain that he wasn't "------- 2.0" just last week he was lying, actively drinking and texting other woman, and as usual he brought up the emotional arsenal of I NEVER trust him, I NEVER believe him, I NEVER let anything go. I immediately felt bad, and stopped and took out the NEVER as that was the word used to hurt me and replaced it with DONT and he is right I don't trust him I don't believe him and I don't neglect the signs he is actively drinking. But, that is not what we are discussing, we are discussing a financial decision regarding his current 13 year old truck with a lot of miles, and some mechanical problems, and him traveling to Delaware everyday for work. I was then able to negotiate some terms. My point is use your detachment to not just detach from your wife's issues, but detach from the emotional manipulation and your guilt. Did you really NEVER do those things? When she finds out that NJ pretty much goes with No fault divorces, and they treat the marriage like a business rather than emotions, and since she is the breadwinner, and parenting time is shared, she might have a rude awakening. Idk I just thought it might apply to your situation, I hope it helps. Also, I plan on calling the NJ Intergroup office in Haddonfield to inquire about some meetings. I can't believe that is all there is....Thanks Chris Christie lol

I agree Michael Sometimes HP's plans do seems very confusing. Having someone to love is definitely a gift from God and I found that it helped if I simply accepted that I could love them , and that they did not have to return that love---then I could love them from afar, wish them the best, and move on while taking care of my own life and well being.

I see that your self esteem continues to grow and I am happy for you . Pray about your next right action and try talking it over with program members and your sponsor.

Prayers and positive thoughts on the way.

When I say her sickness, I'm referring to her codependency. She is consumed with anger, fear, frustration, resentments, depression, and says she feels this way because of me. It's so frustrating, because I read the books on codependency, and so much of it is her.

In her mind, she loves me, but is tired of being hurt, so figures the only way to feel better is by getting me out of her life. I think Al-Anon would change her life, but I don't think she would admit to having a problem.

I told her, and I told our therapist, if I had a choice between being with her the way things are now, or her moving on, BUT getting the help she needs with all these issues, I would want that for her. I just want her to get better. I think this guy she is with is a temporary fix to her problems. As a matter of fact, she knows she is codependent, but to her, that means her and I are no good for each other. Get rid of me, get rid of her problems. Her sister told her she shouldn't be involved with this guy from work if she wants out of the marriage. My wife told her - "I know. I know it's not going to go anywhere, it's just easier to deal with this way" - From one relationship to the next, avoiding all problems and responsibilities.

-- Edited by Michael72 on Thursday 17th of March 2016 08:41:18 PM

Michael it may be time to consult an attorney to explore your legal rights and responsibilities . I would inquire at your home AA meeting to see if they can give a referral . Prayers continue.

Was curious, because I think this ties in with codependency/Al-Anon as far as behaviors, but I'm not sure. If anyone can relate, please let me know -

My wife went out with the guy last night to the club and got home 4 in the morning. Today she says "just to let you know, I'm not coming home tonight". She packed a bag and is spending the night with him in Atlantic City. Because I'm acting indifferent and not reacting to any of it, she seems to be angry with me. Is this normal? For her to be acting this way, and mad at me because of it?

I'm not trying to be passive-aggressive, I just figure I have to let go. She's the one going out with another guy, yet her anger seems to be getting worse and worse.

Michael, are you trying to understand your wife's behaviour/feelings through al-anon or your own?
Because it's basically one of our fundamental tenets that we don't try to interpret or analyse the motives or feelings of another person.
I feel for you, truly, but I can't work out if you want to work on yourself or if you're here to try to re-imagine this painful situation with your wife as one where she fits into a 'disease model' that you might somehow be able to wrest control over. You have said a few times that you've been reading the Melody Beattie books and seeing that they are written about your wife...rather than how they might apply to yourself? But from what you describe, you're being treated very poorly by your spouse at the moment and instead of protecting yourself you're trying to take responsibility for it by understanding it (with the hope you can fix it?)

Someone here once said something to the effect of, us al-anoners are the type of people who, when a complete stranger punches you in the face, would chase them down the street pleading with them to explain what we did wrong. I thought that was pretty apt.

Al-anon is about finding the strength and desire to care for ourselves and create happiness, serenity and joy for ourselves regardless of what another person chooses to do. It doesn't endorse accepting and turning a blind eye to behaviours that are destructive or malicious towards us. You deserve better, and you know that.

What do you hope to find through al-anon?

Well, I hope you decide to jump in head first and work al-anon for yourself. Because you are worth it.

I appreciate the love and support. To be honest, I'm not sure how I feel. I guess I haven't reached that point where I know what to do next.

I realize what my wife is doing is on her. It's not my fault. I know it's easier for her to blame me than to accept the responsibility of what she is doing herself. I know the anger she is showing towards me has alot to do with her guilt. It's just hard to walk away from a 25 year marriage with 4 kids. I'm trying to work my program, accept things the way they are, and move forward. It just seems the more I let go, the angrier and more resentful she gets. I'm just trying to take care of myself and my kids. Let her make her own mistakes, but living in the same house isn't easy.

Michael as I have read your recent postings I was reminded of being in a very similar place many years ago and this poem spoke to me.

Here it is: It is so true  


The Awakening
Sonny Carroll



There comes a time in your life when you finally get it ... When in the midst of all your fears and insanity you stop dead in your tracks and somewhere the voice inside your head cries out "ENOUGH! Enough fighting and crying or struggling to hold on." And, like a child quieting down after a blind tantrum, your sobs begin to subside, you shudder once or twice, you blink back your tears and through a mantle of wet lashes you begin to look at the world from a new perspective.

..........This is your awakening.

You realize that it is time to stop hoping and waiting for something or someone to change, or for happiness safety and security to come galloping over the next horizon. You come to terms with the fact that there aren't always fairytale endings (or beginnings for that matter) and that any guarantee of "happily ever after" must begin with you. Then a sense of serenity is born of acceptance.


So you begin making your way through the "reality of today" rather than holding out for the "promise of tomorrow." You realize that much of who you are and the way you navigate through life is, in great part, a result of all the social conditioning you've received over the course of a lifetime. And you begin to sift through all the nonsense you were taught about :

- how you should look and how much you should weigh,
- what you should wear and where you should shop,
- where you should live or what type of car you should drive,
- who you should sleep with and how you should behave,
- who you should marry and why you should stay,
- the importance of bearing children or what you owe your family,


Slowly you begin to open up to new worlds and different points of view. And you begin re-assessing and re-defining who you are and what you really believe in. And you begin to discard the doctrines you have outgrown, or should never have practiced to begin with.


You accept the fact that you are not perfect ,and that not everyone will love appreciate or approve of who or what you are... and that's OK... they are entitled to their own views and opinions. And, you come to terms with the fact that you will never be a size 5 or a "perfect 10".... Or a perfect human being for that matter... and you stop trying to compete with the image inside your head or agonizing over how you compare. And, you take a long look at yourself in the mirror and you make a promise to give yourself the same unconditional love and support you give so freely to others. Then a sense of confidence is born of self-approval.


And, you stop maneuvering through life merely as a "consumer" hungry for your next fix, a new dress, another pair of shoes or looks of approval and admiration from family, friends or even strangers who pass by. Then you discover that it is truly in "giving" that we receive, and that the joy and abundance you seek grows out of the giving. And you recognize the importance of "creating" and "contributing" rather than "obtaining" and "accumulating."


And you give thanks for the simple things you've been blessed with, things that millions of people upon the earth can only dream about - a full refrigerator, clean running water, a soft warm bed, the freedom of choice and the opportunity to pursue your own dreams.


And you begin to love and to care for yourself. You stop engaging in self-destructive behaviors, including participating in dysfunctional relationships. You begin eating a balanced diet, drinking more water and exercising. And because you've learned that fatigue drains the spirit and creates doubt and fear, you give yourself permission to rest. And just as food is fuel for the body, laughter is fuel for the spirit and so you make it a point to create time for play.


Then you learn about love and relationships - how to love, how much to give in love, when to stop giving, and when to walk away. And you allow only the hands of a lover who truly loves and respects you to glorify you with his touch. You learn that people don't always say what they mean or mean what they say, intentionally or unintentionally, and that not everyone will always come through... and interestingly enough, it's not always about you. So, you stop lashing out and pointing fingers or looking to place blame for the things that were done to you or weren't done for you. And you learn to keep your Ego in check and to acknowledge and redirect the destructive emotions it spawns - anger, jealousy and resentment.


You learn how to say "I was wrong" and to forgive people for their own human frailties. You learn to build bridges instead of walls and about the healing power of love as it is expressed through a kind word, a warm smile or a friendly gesture. And, at the same time, you eliminate any relationships that are hurtful or fail to uplift and edify you. You stop working so hard at smoothing things over and setting your needs aside. You learn that feelings of entitlement are perfectly OK and that it is your right to want or expect certain things. And you learn the importance of communicating your needs with confidence and grace. You learn that the only cross to bear is the one you choose to carry and that eventually martyrs are burned at the stake. Then you learn to distinguish between guilt, and responsibility and the importance of setting boundaries and learning to Say NO. You learn that you don't know all the answers, it's not your job to save the world and that sometimes you just need to Let Go.


Moreover, you learn to look at people as they really are and not as you would want them to be, and you are careful not to project your neediness or insecurities onto a relationship. You learn that you will not be more beautiful, more intelligent, more lovable or important because of the man on your arm or the child that bears your name. You learn that just as people grow and change, so it is with love and relationships, and that that not everyone can always love you the way you would want them to. So you stop appraising your worth by the measure of love you are given. And suddenly you realize that it's wrong to demand that someone live their life or sacrifice their dreams just to serve your needs, ease your insecurities, or meet "your" standards and expectations. You learn that the only love worth giving and receiving is the love that is given freely without conditions or limitations. And you learn what it means to love. So you stop trying to control people, situations and outcomes. You learn that "alone" does not mean "lonely" and you begin to discover the joy of spending time "with yourself" and "on yourself." Then you discover the greatest and most fulfilling love you will ever know - Self Love. And so it comes to pass that, through understanding, your heart heals; and now all new things are possible.


Moving along, you begin to avoid Toxic people and conversations. And you stop wasting time and energy rehashing your situation with family and friends. You learn that talk doesn't change things and that unrequited wishes can only serve to keep you trapped in the past. So you stop lamenting over what could or should have been and you make a decision to leave the past behind. Then you begin to invest your time and energy to affect positive change. You take a personal inventory of all your strengths and weaknesses and the areas you need to improve in order to move ahead, you set your goals and map out a plan of action to see things through.


You learn that life isn't always fair and you don't always get what you think you deserve, and you stop personalizing every loss or disappointment. You learn to accept that sometimes bad things happen to good people and that these things are not an act of God... but merely a random act of fate.


And you stop looking for guarantees, because you've learned that the only thing you can really count on is the unexpected and that whatever happens, you'll learn to deal with it. And you learn that the only thing you must truly fear is the great robber baron of all time - FEAR itself. So you learn to step right into and through your fears, because to give into fear is to give away the right to live life on your terms. You learn that much of life truly is a self-fulfilling prophesy and you learn to go after what you want and not to squander your life living under a cloud of indecision or feelings of impending doom.


Then, YOU LEARN ABOUT MONEY... the personal power and independence it brings and the options it creates. And you recognize the necessity to create your own personal wealth. Slowly, you begin to take responsibility for yourself by yourself and you make yourself a promise to never betray yourself and to never ever settle for less than your heart's desire. And a sense of power is born of self-reliance. And you live with honor and integrity because you know that these principles are not the outdated ideals of a by-gone era but the mortar that holds together the foundation upon which you must build your life. And you make it a point to keep smiling, to keep trusting and to stay open to every wonderful opportunity and exciting possibility. Then you hang a wind chime outside your window to remind yourself what beauty there is in Simplicity.


Finally, with courage in your heart and with God by your side you take a stand, you TAKE a deep breath and you begin to design the life you want to live as best as you can.


A word about the Power of Prayer: In some of my darkest, most painful and frightening hours, I have prayed, not for the answers to my prayers or for material things, but for my "God" to help me find the strength, confidence and courage to persevere; to face each day and to do what I must do.


Remember this:- You are an expression of the almighty. The spirit of God resides within you and moves through you. Open your heart, speak to that spirit and it will heal and empower you.
My "God" has never failed me.




Copyright © 2001 Sonny Carroll. All Rights Reserv

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