The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I have incredible guilt right now for ending things with my boyfriend who was just days home from treatment. Guilt that I wasn't patient enough, that I let my emotions overshadow my ability to make a sound decsision. But he's moved out and its done.
Back story at what brought me to my breaking point last week: (ok it's a long back story--bare with me!)
On and off again 11 year relationship, two significant break ups after living together-both during times when he was completely stuck in his alchohism but (we both) failed to see that was the problem.
5 years ago we reunited after a low point in his life; I was one of the few friends he still had and things lead back into a relationship. 4 years ago we moved back in and got a dog together--steps for real committment I thought.
2 years ago his drinking increased again; this is when I started to recognize this as a problem because I was starting to have bad drinking habits in order to be able to join him in any activity; because they all revolved around drinking. If I wanted to spend time with him and have a relationship; drinking was the only thing that made him "happy" so that's what we did. I gained weight, stopped caring and we lost connection. He had an affair. I found out. I still wanted things to work so gave him another (really?!) chance. He couldn't take her out of his life; despite the committment of our house and dog and relationship together. He said he needed to leave so he could focus on him and his drinking (which still didn't admit it was alcoholism but at least recognized it was an issue). I lost 30 lbs after he left...I didn't enjoy drinking, I didn't have a problem, I could stop. I recognized that his problem was becoming my own. How unhealthly was that? But like the good co-dependent person I am, everytime he called to see the dog, I caved, or wanted to grab dinner, I caved. It caused turmoil in that new relationship (which he moved in after 3 months of knowing her), and they fought an broke up more times that I can count. But guess who took him back? Yep. Everytime. Last June we "finally" ended things and he moved out and back with her for "good." I dated and moved forward in my life. I ended a short fling with a guy as I recgonized the rebound status and focused more time and engery on myself and just wanted to be single and find who I was. Less than a month later, guess who called me back up? To ask where I was at with "us" and if there was room in my heart for him again..sucked back in. But, no really, I do love this man (when he's sober and not in another relationship...so many conditions right?!). So I believed that he had his drinking under control (ha!) and that he was done with "her" and he moved back in in October. But guess what. Drinking not under control. "Her" not out of his life. And me the fool once again. His 18 months of not being able to choose (mind you two women here allowed him to not have to), and increase of drinking and some pill use--he admitted his life was out of control. He was going to "try to do it on his own" one more time before he sought out treatment. I was at my wits end, so was she. We did an intevention with his family. Relief, right? Yeah, he went to treatment but guess what; two women still in his life, that he called and aske both to come visit him. 5 weeks for treatment and yet one problem still unresolved "where do you want to live/be for your next phase of recovery" Sober living was an option; but he wanted to be "home". So he was going to make a choice on his first day "home" (why bother thinking about this and processing it through in the safety of the treatment center while you are working on all those other things too?!). And so day one home, a whirlwind of him being at our house, going to her, calling his family, going to AA, etc. Someone told him if he stayed with me, his family would disown him; one guess who that was. So night one, he went to her. Left telling me he'd be back the next day for good.
So the next day he came back with her keys on his chain and an off demeanor. I could tell he had been drinking. He had slipped once in treatment a week prior which prompted his being home sooner than any of us were prepared for. he denined it left and right. She came by our house dropped his stuff off and took her key back. Free, finally free from the triangle...but no, not even close.
He went to his meeting that night and the next day he woke up and started his new treatment. He went to a meeting that night and came home and confessed he lied to me and was drinking the day before. He also said he called her. And stil wasn't sure where he was going to live. Are you kidding me? So for the next 2 days, he laid in bed with me, holding my hand and telling me he wanted to be home, but knowing he was still wondering about if she was where he wanted to be.
I lost it. I woke up one morning after crying myself to sleep the night before and said "I'm done, I can't take it anymore." I told him what I needed and said if he couldn't do that he wasn't welcome back home. So that night I told him to leave and take what he needed until he figured out where he wanted to live; which wasn't going to be with me. The next day I asked him to take all of his stuff and made it clear that our home was no longer his for the duration of the 4 months we had on the lease. Today he moved most of his things out.
So Why do I feel guilt for not being more patient in his first week home from recovery. I know logically, I needed him to settle into a new routine; but emotionally, I had put up with enough and couldn't take another day the anxiety I had felt. Of the mistrust of not knowing where he really was with everything. I feel like I failed him and failed us; because he is trying in his recovery. He has gone to treatment everyday and a meeting every night he's been home. But the hurt caused by the affair and knowing that he was still drinking had become too much for me to handle and I wasn't sure the cycle was every going to end unless I did it too. He claims hes moving out and will be eventually doing sober living but in the mean time staying with her. He says she's not his girlfriend and that he is planning on ending things with her too so he can "learn to fix himself and not be so codependent" I just can't believe much of what he says. But then I see him and can see that he is living a better life and feel guilty for not trusting him more than I do.
Guilt; what can take the guilt aways?
(And yes I attend Al-Anon meetings and am very new to learning the program and applying it to my life)
Welcome and I'm glad you have found us. I'm not sure why a person would trust someone who has shown time and time again that he refuses to live with a commitment to monogamy, to being with only one woman. He has spelled it out loud and clear. His actions show it, and even sometimes his words (the most untrusthworthy part) show it. His commitment to recovery is weak enough that he drank while in rehab and he drank once he came home. So he's showing how weak that commitment is too.
The thing is that we don't have to trust them before they prove themselves trustworthy. In fact, it's much better not to. We can trust them after they have a good long record of behaving in a trustworthy manner. Your A does not have this.
Sometimes we get into a kind of magical thinking where we think that if he trust that something will come true, and behave as if it will, then it will. Sadly, that does not happen. It is much wiser to judge future results on past results.
As you describe it, what you've done through this is to react to what he's decided. The things he's decided so far are the actions of an addict and womanizer. So naturally that has caused much grief and pain.
When we get our own recovery, we start to focus on ourselves and what is good for us, rather than on our A. Have you found a face-to-face meeting? The regular advice is to try six because they're all different. You can get the literature there too. And read through the threads here. There is much hope and peace in store. Take care of yourself. Hugs!
Crau - welcome to MIP - so glad you found us and glad you shared.
I am glad to hear you are attending Al-Anon meetings - that's where I learned more about the disease and how it affects everyone. For an alcoholic, having a slip is as easy as chewing fingernails and/or smoking a cigarette. It's a bad habit that leads to a dependency - emotionally, spiritually, physically and mentally. When an alcoholic slips, it's not because of us or any other reason - it's because the disease perpetually pulls on every fiber of life that exists.
Most alcoholics/addicts stop growing emotionally when they begin their addictive career. So, acting like a teenager, indecisiveness, immaturity, etc. all are common characteristics. If/when an alcoholic chooses recovery, they will go through transformation. Most of us did not know our partner before booze, so we don't know if we will/will not like what they become. However, it's their journey and a journey that we learn to detach from and not judge.
Al-Anon shows us how to keep the focus on us - what we are doing, what we are not doing, how we act/react to the disease, the diseased and others in our life. It's a personal journey about becoming the best person we can be and figuring out what we really want/need in our life. We learn about the disease and usually develop compassion for the alcoholic as we see they are sick with this disease vs. making a choice to destroy their life.
Anytime I made a change in my own recovery, I felt guilt. I felt as if I was changing and leaving them behind. I had a great sponsor who suggested I wasn't leaving them behind, but rather they had chosen a different journey/timeline. My own growth in this program tells me that using the past for growth purposes is OK, using it as a predictor for future events is not healthy - as there is only one who knows future events and that one is not me.
Al-Anon asks us to stay in the present, focus on just today. We are not to project into the future nor dwell on the past. We learn to plan for our future, but not to plan for another person's future. We learn to accept things as they are today and to establish boundaries for self-protection vs. punishment of others.
So, if like me, your guilt comes from feeling as if you've affected his recovery, his chances for recovery and/or his future, it's an unrealistic thought. The reality is we all (adults) should be able to stand on our own two feet and deal with life events - good and bad. We are all imperfect people, and we will let others down. When we are spiritually fit and personally healthy, we are able to work through these events in life and they don't 'stop us in our tracks.'
When we aren't healthy or spiritually fit, we are usually 'stuck' during these times. Logic and rational adult thinking are set off to the sides and we are sitting thinking we're at fault, or we caused 'this' or 'that'. The reality is you were committed for a long while. His disease distracted him from you and you no longer choose to be a hostage to his disease. The future is unknown for both, but just for today, you've opted to do something different.
Pray for him and do something nice just for you today. Don't dwell on him, the disease, the other gal or any of that - try to just focus on you, for today and what you can do that would be kind and gentle. Keep going to the meetings and embrace the program and fellowship - working the program has given me the gift of love, tolerance, empathy and forgiveness. I am forever grateful for the freedom of bondage that was my own irrational thinking and my own part in this disease.
(((Hugs))) to you - keep coming back!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
From an outsider looking in; I can see hands down that I made the right choice. But from the emotions I'm feeling within; it's difficult to recognize that within myself. I lived so long with an addict without recognizing it that I have such a disorted view of what it means to be in a healthy committed relationship.
You're correct he hasn't committed himself to this recovery; although he is going through the motions; applying those tools to his life is a long way down the road. I had been to therapy a few times and we talked about how to rebuild trust in someone; one thing my therapist said is that you have to treat today like a new relationship; you want to have trust in a person and so you do. So that's how I looked at him; but I think I was also waiting for the other shoe to drop because so many times it had. I trust my gut more than anything in this world and this week; man it was telling me to run like the wind. And I finally listened. So that's progress right?!
It's hard letting go of something that you've know for so long; regardless of if it's good for you or not.
We do have a very codepenent relationship; but again when I'm not with him, I am not codependent on anything or anyone (to the extreme that I am with him). Just like when he was drinking, I developmed a drinking habit too. It's like he knows my weaknessses and sucks on to them when he can't cope with his own stuff.
I do attend Al-Anon meetings--I have a been to a few beginner meetings and then probably 3-4 one that I would condiser my "home" group. Many of the people have been in it for 20+ years; I truly love the insight I learn from their stories and look forward to the growth I can make through it. It's been more beneficial to me than individual therapy!
I need to gain self-confidence again to have the validation within myself that my choice to end things is the best for me; instead I'm wallowing in the whole feeling of guilt, regret and abaondment because of fear of not having this chaos that became normal in my life anymore.
So, if like me, your guilt comes from feeling as if you've affected his recovery, his chances for recovery and/or his future, it's an unrealistic thought. The reality is we all (adults) should be able to stand on our own two feet and deal with life events - good and bad. We are all imperfect people, and we will let others down. When we are spiritually fit and personally healthy, we are able to work through these events in life and they don't 'stop us in our tracks.'
YES! This is exactly how I feel. I did so much research and reading about what to do when the addict comes home from treatment and what to expect and yadda yadda. And I like to follow the rules so I felt like I was breaking the rules by having him have such a major change that first year. But then I thought to myself. "I CAN'T TAKE ANOTHER YEAR OF THIS CHAOS" and knew that I needed to do something for me. And that is SO foriegn to me which scares me so I default back to focussing on the other people.
I am thinking about this statement - "One thing my therapist said is that you have to treat today like a new relationship; you want to have trust in a person and so you do." Maybe I don't understand the context in which the therapist made it. But as phrased, it sounds like a recipe for problems to me. If you were meeting someone on a blind date and they said, "Hey, lend me $50, I'll pay you back next week," would it be wise to do it? No, because you naturally don't know them well enough to trust them. We are all wise to be a little guarded until we know who the person is.
I also don't understand why you would be advised to take someone with whom you have eleven years of experience and treat them like someone whose past is unknown - why leave all that experience behind? Until they've shown definitively that they've changed, why wouldn't it be wisest to treat them as if they were still the same person they were for eleven years?
Of course I don't know the situation with your therapist. What I did find over the course of my journey with my A is that most therapists don't have real experience with alcoholism and don't know how to deal with it. They studied it in school by reading a textbook, but they haven't had up-close experience with it and how difficult it is. My A and I went to four therapists over the years. Not one of them had a realistic idea of alcoholism. For instance, one said to my A, "Her drinking troubles you. What do you say to that?" My A said, "My drinking isn't a problem, so I'll just quit and then she won't have an issue." I said, "Wait a minute, we've been through this a million times, he's not able to just quit!" And the therapist said, "Why do you feel you have issues with trust in your life? Why can't you take the gift your husband is giving you, of saying he will quit?" And I'm thinking, "This is BS! He's not gonna quit [as indeed he didn't], and now I'm painted like I'm the person with the paranoia!" And so on. They didn't know, for one thing, that lying goes hand-in-hand with alcoholism, so they would take what he said at face value. "He says he's not drinking. Why can't you accept that?" And so on.
My point is that it's possible your therapist simply doesn't understand the challenge of alcoholism. I would question anyone who told me to treat a proven alcoholic like someone you should trust, or like someone with no record of alcoholism.
Of course I wasn't there and didn't hear what she said, so take what you like and leave the rest.
I agree, I think if we were just dealing with an affair here then maybe, just maybe that piece of advice could have been generalized to my situation. I do feel as if that piece of advice was not helpful in the slightest because again, I like rules, and saw it as one. And when it didn't work; I assumed it was me that failed to follow the rule properly.
I tried several therapist and I think one that is good with codependency and addiction would be my cup of tea; but as I said, I have gotten more out of my few Al-Anon meetings than therapy. And it's a heck of a lot cheaper too...maybe I should consider upping my 7th tradition donation ;)
I have a great drug and alcohol therapist
After starting alanon i asked someone i trusted.
I had been to a marriage counsellor. They both
Told me the same thing leave him and continue
On with your alanon.
I still go to my D & A therapist she is a 12 stepper
Herself. I Love her she gets it, the other one did
Too.
Eventually we did get divorced but it took alanon
To get me strong from the inside out. I thought of
Leaving just could not take that step, i called about
Rentals.
He had checked out and was now chasing women,
not a healthy or good thing in a marriage.
Most alcoholics/addicts stop growing emotionally when they begin their addictive career. So, acting like a teenager, indecisiveness, immaturity, etc. all are common characteristics. If/when an alcoholic chooses recovery, they will go through transformation. Most of us did not know our partner before booze, so we don't know if we will/will not like what they become. However, it's their journey and a journey that we learn to detach from and not judge.
I have heard this before and it always intrigued me; so what you are saying is that I'm not really letting go of a 38 year old man, however probably a 21 year old (or younger--it's hard to tell when the addiction really started) How does that emotional age impact those in his life too? Do we stop maturing when the alcoholic enters our life as well? In a way can't we say we have become addicted to the addict? I'd be intrigued what others have to say about that.
I can't get the quoting thing to work for multiple posts, so I've got your comments in italics, and mine in normal!!! Take what you like and leave the rest!
From an outsider looking in; I can see hands down that I made the right choice. But from the emotions I'm feeling within; it's difficult to recognize that within myself. I lived so long with an addict without recognizing it that I have such a disorted view of what it means to be in a healthy committed relationship.
From my own experience, I had a horrible persistent debate between my head and my heart!!! My head knew I needed to make changes, yet my heart felt badly for taking care of me. I agree - when we love and live with the disease, we do have distorted thinking of views of what's normal, healthy, loving, etc.
Continuing with your Al-Anon meetings, and working the program steps will help you with your self-confidence and logical thinking process. As I look back now, I can see time and time again where I allowed unacceptable behavior just because I didn't want the burden of a tantrum, argument or worse. My self-esteem and self-worth and confidence were all in the tank - a common side-effect of living with active disease.
You're correct he hasn't committed himself to this recovery; although he is going through the motions; applying those tools to his life is a long way down the road. I had been to therapy a few times and we talked about how to rebuild trust in someone; one thing my therapist said is that you have to treat today like a new relationship; you want to have trust in a person and so you do. So that's how I looked at him; but I think I was also waiting for the other shoe to drop because so many times it had. I trust my gut more than anything in this world and this week; man it was telling me to run like the wind. And I finally listened. So that's progress right?!
It's hard letting go of something that you've know for so long; regardless of if it's good for you or not.
I do attend Al-Anon meetings--I have a been to a few beginner meetings and then probably 3-4 one that I would condiser my "home" group. Many of the people have been in it for 20+ years; I truly love the insight I learn from their stories and look forward to the growth I can make through it. It's been more beneficial to me than individual therapy!
I need to gain self-confidence again to have the validation within myself that my choice to end things is the best for me; instead I'm wallowing in the whole feeling of guilt, regret and abaondment because of fear of not having this chaos that became normal in my life anymore.
The best part of the Al-Anon program is keeping the focus on us. He may get sober, he may not. In either case, you taking care of you is a great choice. I too went to a couple of therapists, and found some benefit from that. I also agree that I get much more from hands-on ESH (Experience, Strength & Hope) from other Al-Anon members - well worth the donation I give!!
As far as the therapists' message relative to rebuilding trust, I believe I understand. If the relationship is worth it AND you want to 'go to any lengths to save it', then you have to start each morning as if it is a new day. We are all human and we are all imperfect. If we hold on to the wrongs from yesterday and fret over the future wrongs that may happen, we can't be happy, humble or present in the now.
I am one who wanted to make my relationship with my AH work. In spite of all that has happened (infidelity, drinking, driving my kids drunk, lies, waste of money & more....) I was able to see him vs. the disease, let it all go, forgive without being asked and stay committed. I am not suggesting anyone else do this, I am saying it is what I committed to do. I can give a million reasons why I should have left and I can give a million reasons why I should stay - we each have our own journey and you will find yours as you clear out the wreckage of living with active addiction.
I have heard this before and it always intrigued me; so what you are saying is that I'm not really letting go of a 38 year old man, however probably a 21 year old (or younger--it's hard to tell when the addiction really started) How does that emotional age impact those in his life too? Do we stop maturing when the alcoholic enters our life as well? In a way can't we say we have become addicted to the addict? I'd be intrigued what others have to say about that.
In my own case, living with 3 active alcoholics, there is no doubt I stopped growing. Not always and not to the same degree as the alcoholic, but I have the pleasure of being a double-winner (AA & Al-Anon) so had some insight into the disease. I would love to hear what others think about this as well - it makes sense to me that we would stop maturing/growing/learning as the chaos and insanity of the disease takes over so much.
In my home group, I am close with a large group of gals and we often joke about how crazy and immature we were at times. I recall one moment one of my boys was flipping me the bird behind my back, and I turned in time to see it.....I just sat there and flew the bird right back at him - which, under normal calm circumstances, I would not have ever considered let alone done!!!
Keep coming back and know that you are not alone! You get to now set your journey your way and recover without the distraction of another. You can set boundaries on when you talk with him (or not), under what circumstances, etc. - I know it's hard to quit cold turkey...
Ultimately, if you focus on you, you will be OK and we're all just a post away!!!
-- Edited by Iamhere on Sunday 21st of February 2016 09:08:23 PM
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
The way I see it, drinking brings on brain disorders , the person changes, his behavior changes, he acts crazy, because he is crazy and the person you loved is not that person anymore, and then we allow them to toss us around like the winds because we are addicted to the addict and addicted to fixing him and we are manipulated by him. We do not have control over our own lives and it has become unmanageable and we get all the symptoms of the alcoholic and we don't trust ourselves anymore. Not realizing that we are powerless over their addiction.
Personally, I think you made the best decision for yourself ....You need to recover from the roller coaster ride...
Stay with Alanon, its your path to recovery, to gain tools and solutions for your life.
Your therapist said to treat today like a new relationship. Al Anon teaches us not to dwell on the past, so it would seem to agree. However, note that we shouldn't dwell in the past. That doesn't mean we can't learn from it. many of us learn how to deal with our active alcoholic qualifiers by not engaging when they are drunk, watching for signs of possible oncoming violence, doing our best not to let them drive or calling the police if they do. And also breaking up when a consistent pattern of behavior develops. Knowing when to give up over repeated lapses lf unacceptable behavior. it is up to each of us as to how much unacceptable behavior we can forgive.
Also, when I am in similar situations, I try to make sure I know that feelings aren't real. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be paid attention to and dealt with, but they don't reflect real life, they reflect how we feel about life. They will pass if addressed and, as you noted and I agree from my experience, Al Anon is a great, and cheap, tool for this.
