The material presented
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information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
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As you can see, this is my first post..and I’m feeling anxious about it – perhaps fear of what might be said or what I must do (or not do). This is really long but I don’t know any other way to do this – and it’s a reflection of how I analyze everything. This is me- the long winded woman.
I’m very confused. I don’t know what to say, how to act. I have so many questions – and I am so afraid.
I am married to a wonderful man – going on 10 years. We have two kids, ages 8 and 2.5. I love him dearly – for that I have no doubt. He has held the same job for 14 years ,he is VERY dependable and has never – ever – called in sick due to hangover. He can go a long time w/o drinking (months, even years). He only drinks beer. He’s quit smoking (cold turkey), he’s quit chewing tobacco (cold turkey), he’s lost 100 lbs and has kept it off for 3 year now. He cleans the house, does the dishes, plays with the kids, changes diapers, does the laundry, watches the kids so I can study, etc etc. Any woman’s dream come true right? So why, then, do I hate alcohol so much? Why, now, after all these years, does the sight of him drinking a drop immediately get my heart racing, my stomach in knots, and the feelings of helplessness, fear, anger resentment all come to the surface?
We met in a bar – we were 25, no kids, having a great time partying with college friends, staying up late etc. I would occasionally get ‘drunk’ but for him, it was every time we went out. If we just had people over to play cards, he’d get drunk. Basically every time he had beer back then, he’d get drunk. Then we quit hanging out with those friends, got married, got pregnant, and the drinking shifted from friends to his cousins and uncles.
I didn’t like how his behavior changed when he got drunk (he was not mean – he was a happy drunk – but sometimes he’d get very depressed or jealous, saying you don’t love me over and over again.) I finally got tired of subjecting myself to this, so I stayed home. Then I’d wait all night and have to deal with it when he got home. I hated having to reassure him until he passed out that I loved him. Or I hated that he wanted to “do” things when he hadn’t kissed me or gave me any attention until he was drunk and wanted sex. It made me feel cheap, unloved, and used.
Now this would happen maybe 1 time a month – this going out until 4:00 am – coming home drunk. But I still didn’t like it. I mean we’re now 30 something with a kids and a mortgage – we shouldn’t have to party like college kids anymore.
Then, 3 years ago, he came home with a hickey on his neck and I lost it. I had told him many times before I didn’t like how he “had” to get drunk when he was with his cousins, that I didn’t like how he rode with these drunk cousins in cars, that I was afraid he’d get killed or kill someone etc etc. But the hickey changed my fears to include fears of him cheating on me – something I never, ever questioned. He insists to this day nothing happened – another drunk woman played a joke on him. But it tore something out of me – something I’m not sure when I’ll ever get back.
He quit for a year after that – not a drop.
Then, slowly – gradually, with my “permission”, he started drinking a little again. Up until this past summer when he was drinking maybe 2or 3 cans per night, then a case on the weekend. If he was out with those same cousins, and there was a reason to party (graduations, weddings, retirements, etc – it’s a big family that always is celebrating something!!) he’d again not stop until he was drunk or very impaired. I would get embarrassed at these family events because of his drinking. I told him again I couldn’t live with all this alcohol – it’s too much – I think he has a problem etc. He promised me he’d quit – and proceeded to get drunk two Saturday afternoons in a row (again due to some family celebration he attended). I left that first Saturday and didn’t tell him where I was going (perhaps to scare him??). I came back, he said again how sorry he is. When he did it the following Saturday, I drove around with the kids looking for him, and found him in the bar, drunk. I picked him up, then after 2 blocks, turned around and told him as quietly as I could (the kids in the backseat, mind you) to get out and find his own damn ride home. He wouldn’t get out and I didn’t say another word. How that affected my 8 year old daughter, I’ll never know but I vowed I’d never go chasing after him again.
He said he’d quit – then asked me if he could have a few beers after work on day at their Christmas party. I got pissed and said NO – you said you quit! He said I didn’t realize that quitting meant everywhere – he thought it meant just at bars! (LOL) So he came home and skipped the party. But then a week later I smell alcohol on his breath, and see he’s been buying the big “silos” (36 oz cans of beer, sold individually) and drinking them in his car – now I’m devastated because he’s started to lie to me and hides it from me. When I asked how it felt to hide it from me, he said he was embarrassed. I didn’t chastise him, I simply asked.
I decided to call my office’s lifeworks program and they got me 3 free counseling sessions, 2 of which I’ve completed. I attended an Al-Anon meeting last week.
I told him he needs an assessment – he went. They told him he is alcohol dependent – but is a “low-level of concern” for alcoloism based on one their tests. Still, they recommended an outpatient treatment. He won’t go because it’s too far away, for too many nights per week, and is a group seession. He would go to a one-on-one counselor though. He admits he drinks too much, but he says he can stop if he wants to. He likes the taste of beer, and likes to have fun w/his cousins after he works so hard. He doesn’t WANT to stop having fun, so he keeps drinking. It’s contradictory – his admission of drinking too much, but his statement of I can stop when I want to. He says he simply chooses not to!
He says he quit – for good – 100%. He said he decided that the night I caught him with the big cans of beer. He told his cousins that he parties with that he quit. He says he hates seeing me go through so much pain over it – and never really, truly understood how it hurt me. He believes he can do this on his own and doesn’t “need” anyone’s help. He hasn’t had anything to drink – and we even hosted a new years party and he didn’t drink but watched his cousins drink (noone got drunk – and I actually had fun).
He quit and I’m still scared, confused etc. He can see it’s important to me so he’s willing to go to f2f counseling.
Yet..maybe..and here’s the difficult part. Maybe he really ISN”T an alcoholic – maybe we just have a communication issue. Or maybe he CAN quit on his own. Maybe I’m the one that has the PROBLEM with alcohol (father was dry alcoholic, ex boyfriends that hurt me terribly who were heavy drinkers) Perhaps I am wrong to criticize him so heavily. He hasn’t gotten in trouble, he doesn’t ignore his responsibilities at home, he doesn’t miss work. I’m happy he quit…but now he says that he doesn’t know when enough is enough. If he goes to treatment or counseling and he’s the same person after, then what? What will I force on him next? When will I be happy?
BINGO!
I told him yesterday that I release him from this vice-grip hold I have on him. (He needs to tell me his feelings more, he needs to control his anger with our very demanding son, he should do this, he shouldn’t do that, etc) He can choose to do what he wants - with alcohol, with treatment, with everything. I don’t’ know if that’s the right thing to do …because I know I could MAKE him go to counseling if I really pushed him.
I decided that if I truly love him, I need to love myself first – and accept that my wants and needs are just that – mine and I can’t get happiness from him if I am not happy with myself. If I stopped telling him everyday how he needs to do this and that, then maybe he’ll be freer to do those things and not be afraid that I”ll judge him for what he says or try to fix it. He can just “be” himself.
Or am I in denial? If he does have a problem, how can I encourage the right and let go of the wrong?
For those that got through all of this, know that I am thankful. I feel as though my situation doesn’t rank up there with so many of the painful stories I read here…so I feel guilty for even posting this. But I will anyway. For it is my pain I tell here.
It's a family disease....meaning it does affect everyone involved. So to answer your topic question, I'd say "both." It is our problem when we are being affected by it I know about those feelings of anger and resentment when he picks a bottle up. Even now I have to watch out for that feeling of anger, because every now and then it sneaks up on me.
I've been coming to Al-Anon a while now. I started looking at myself, rather than at him, and changing the things I didn't like about myself... like the nagging and the screaming and the crying and the just being so darn afraid to stand up for myself or the kids in case I made waves. I heard the 3 C's here: we didn't cause it, we can't control it and we can't cure it. Went to local meetings (we call them ftf's here) and online meetings both.
Mine still drinks.... not all the time.... he's a binge drinker like what yours sounds like. He also goes to work, cooks when he's home (he's on the road alot with his job), participates with the family, supports me in what I want to do, etc. But yeah, those nights he does drink can be hard. That's why I need to be here. I've learned a whole lot in Al-Anon. I've learned I don't have to react. I've learned I can feel a whole lot better by focusing on me rather than him. I've learned I don't have to listen to those "drunkalogues"... I can say I need to take a shower/bath and walk away.
There's a whole I've learned about the disease and about myself. I continue to learn. I so totally understand those feelings you spoke of in the beginning of your post. Been there, done that. It can change. It can get better. Even if he doesn't change.... YOU can get better.
As for your last paragraph... someone once told me "never minimize your own pain." We all hurt from this disease. Our pain is valid regardless of how little or great it is. The important thing is learning how to recover from that. You can do that here. We understand.
You'll hear people say "don't make any major changes for the first 6 months of Al-Anon." The reason for that is because when we are new, we are in so much emotional/mental pain that we often aren't thinking clearly. Our thoughts can be distorted from our pain. As you listen and learn and share, you'll begin to see. (About the only time anyone would suggest a major change would be if there was immediate danger of physical violence.) Al-Anon takes time. It's like anything...school, church, work.... takes time to learn what its all about.
Things will become clearer to you after a while about what your own course of action should be. No one can tell you what to do because we aren't in your exact shoes, we aren't you. We can share what we've done and are doing. You can take from our experiences those that you think will work for you, and leave alone those that you feel won't work for you. Just listening to others can show you things you might not have thought of before though. We say "keep coming back" because we need you as much as you need us.
I'm glad you posted and shared with us. As you can see I'm a bit long-winded too, LOL That's ok. After not having anyone to talk to about this, its nice to find a group who you can talk to and who really understands, who gets it - how we feel. Welcome to the Al-Anon family!
Luv, Kis
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Let your light shine in the darkness. "I can't just bring my mind to meetings...I must also bring my heart."
It doesn't matter if he is or isn't an alcoholic. Alanon is about you - and you are affected by his drinking. So, welcome; yes, this program can help you.
You are taking a big and important first step by realizing that part of the problem here is your reaction to his behaviour. One of the most important things we learn in this program is to tell what is our problem, and what isn't. His actions are not your problem, and are not yours to control -yours are. You get to decide what you will and will not accept, and make choices based on that. Letting go of his actions does not mean accepting unacceptable behaviour, it does mean butting out of things that are not your business.
Not everything you learn here will apply to you - that's OK. But, if you spend some time on this board, in our chat, reading our literature, and most of all, going to f2f meetings, you WILL find some things that speak directly to you, I promise. Take what you need, and leave the rest.
For me, things got better when I stopped worrying about whether or not he was drinking, stopped focusing on when he got home, etc, and started focusing on how he treated me. When he was abusive and unpleasant, I reacted. Otherwise, I did not. If he was not home for supper, I fed myself and the kids, and then we did something nice - went for a walk, cuddled up and watched TV, or I read my book or took a bath. I stopped fretting over where he was and what he was doing. And, when he started coming home to a calm house full of happy people, nobody yelling at him the minute he walked through the door, he calmed down, and started being less of a jerk. He did not stop drinking. He did not stop drugging. He eventually was in such despair that he was seriously contemplating suicide - but he didn't drag me and the kids down there with him. When his life got bad enough, he made the choice to seek recovery - but MY recovery had started years before, when I let go.
Welcome to the MIP family. You certainly do belong here. I can't add much to what Kis has said, as she is far more brilliant than I!
But I do know from talking to my sober hubby, that some can do it without treatment (my father-in-law for example), some do it without AA. But alot of people can't do without some kind of help. Alcoholism is progressive. I know one person in AA who by all accounts wouldn't be considered an A. But he goes because he knows he has some kind of problem and doesn't want it to progress. This disease runs rampant in his family, and he had troubles in college with it.
My husband is what you would call a functioning alcoholic. His first marriage he would go to work, etc. One would never know that he had a problem. But as his marriaged declined, his disease progressed.
You're right his recovery is his business. Your recovery is yours. I for one know that I could never live with an active alcoholic again. It's too much me. It doesn't mean that I don't love my husband. But I won't die for his disease.
Don't ever feel guilty about posting here. We're all family. I was whining (or so I thought I was) about how bad my toe is feeling, as I broke it the other day. Here I was complaining how much it hurt, and telling him it's nothing compared to his reconstructive surgery he has to have on his feet. Nor is it as bad as a colleague's brother who served in Iraq and lost a leg as well as being burned over 75% of his body. Who am I to complain? He reminded me that it may seem small in comparison to that brave soldier. But my pain is no less real or no less important. So you most certainly belong here. Keep coming back to us.
Love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty <--- the cat
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
I just wanted to welcome you ((((((((Deb))))))))))),
Kis, indeed, has said it so eloquently. The only thing I would add is this: It is true that we didnot cause, cannot control or cure them; however we can have boundaries that are established while they are sober and then enforced whether they are drinking or not. It you prefer not to be intimate with him while he's drinking, he needs to know that you feel cheap and used and you will not engage.
The one thing this program taught me was to love myself. I always thought I did but coming to Alanon has risen me to an even higher level of self-esteem and self-love. It's from working this program, the 12 steps, attending meetings, taking time out for me w/out feeling guilty.
One of my favorite sayings to those who feel lower or higher than others is this: Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
You are important, your concerns are important and your feelings are important.
Keep coming, Maria123
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If I am not for me, who will be? If I am only for myself, then who am I? If not now, when?
HI deb, my story is quite like yours with my hubby....I am going through ALL the same questions and worries as you write!!!! I am super scared too!! I dont have any GREAT advice for you but I can tell you that you are NOT alone in your confusion and pain and worries!!!! I have learnt just from one meeting here, that surrendernce is something that needs to be done....I am still struggling with this BUT I do know that we have to let go....I am still trying for some reason to hold on....and let happen what will happen. We have to have faith and believe. We do have to think for US first and work on healing ourselfs!!!! I hope this helps a little....reading your post has helped me a little....being a newbie and feeling lost and hopless!!!! I knew I was not alone but I dont feel as alone anymore....make sence??
It's all excuses, if his lips are moving, he's lying - it's a "cunning and baffling" disease and it's making you crazy, isn't it? Driving around searching for him in bars with your kids in the car. You know how bad that looks. On one of the speaker tapes here, there's an alanon speaker tape and she said she climbed a tree to catch him coming out of the bar. Now who is the crazy one here? LOL. I know it's painful now, but one day you'll laugh, trust me.
What I found out, was that the ONLY way I could help HIM, was for me to be in Alanon. Because, when I got into Alanon (and I read and listened to everything I could get my hands on), then I had "detachment with love" and that actually "helps" them - it's the only help that is real. All other "help" that I, as a non-alcoholic, can give the alcoholic will NEVER work, can never work. Millions have tried it, and believe me, you are not going to be the first one to cure an alcoholic. It's impossible.
There's a magical, spiritual, divine thing that happens when an alcoholic gets into AA. In time, he weans off you, and forms a bond with the other alcoholics in AA. They know all his crap, his excuses. They know ALL of it, cos they've been there. The point is, he weans off you and doesn't need you one bit for his sobriety and he doesn't look back. It seems like one more selfish action on his part, and if you're not in Alanon, you could be left high and dry.
If he does get into AA (and even if he doesn't), you will NEED Alanon, big time, for your own sanity and serenity.
You could start by going back to that face to face meeting and asking for a sponsor or ask someone you respect to be your sponsor. You can also listen to the free speaker tapes here, and read and listen to Conference Approved Literature (sometimes you can find it in thrift stores cheap, or the public library). Also, the magazine is really good. The AA magazine is called the Grapevine and the Alanon magazine is called the Forum. Thanks for reminding me, I love the Forum and haven't read it in awhile. http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/forum.html http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/pdf/ForumOrder.pdf
I spent lots of money on literature. We didn't have much money but I was glad to support the meetings by buying the books. Some of the best stuff is in the free brochures. I read everything and listened to tons of cds (our meeting had three laundry baskets of tapes and cd's free to borrow. I just needed to get my head wrapped around this and learn as much as I could in a short time. You can print out the 12 Steps and put them on the fridge. Not for him, although he'll see them, but for you. You need to regain your sanity and serenity, and the steps, especially 1,2,3 (just like a waltz, 1,2,3) will help you. Jump in and give this your time and attention (and bring your battered heart), and relax, don't make any big decisions, give yourself six months or a year and just inhale the healing of the program. Things will become clear and you'll be able to make clear, unemotional, unreative decisions down the road, no matter what antics he's doing or not doing.
I am in awe and comfort by the responses I've received - truly, I cannot thank you enough because I feel for the first time that perhaps I am not crazy to feel the way I do.
I am an information-aholic. Whatever the task at hand is, I read as much as I can, compare, contrast, look for fault, and in the end I still can't make a decision. So I say, to hell with it, I'll do this. This can apply to everything from what to "do" about my husband or which toaster oven to buy. Welcome to the world of a mind that can't stop thinking about everything at once.
I told my husband, as I mentioned in my first post, that I will no longer suggest, prod, imply, or guilt him into seeking treatment. I "release" him - because I am learning that I can't change him. It did feel good, but scary to say that to him because I knew I had to try to actually do it! I told him this while on my way home from the grocery store...and the phone cut out. I did't call back (unusual for me). He didnt say a word to me the rest of hte evening - but was not cold, just quiet. The next day, he spent the entire day - I kid you not - playing the same free cell game on the laptop until I suggested we go out to pizza hut. We did, the kids fell asleep in the car..and I asked him why he didnt' call me back - and how did he feel about what I told him (about letting go). He didn't say anything. I said this quiet drives me crazy - just tell me if you dont' want to talk. So he said he's just burnt out from talking about it everyday. I tried so hard to be strong, but I wasn't. That "i'm just burnt out from talking" comment left me weeping, as silently as I could, the tears rolling while I stared out the opposite window so he couldn't see me.
Why was I crying? I don't know. I dont' know why I have these feelings. I'ts driving me CRAZY!
Last night, he held me and apologized again for making me so sad. I tried to explain to him how this "letting go" process has just brought about all these feelings and I'm just trying to understand what they are. He said that when I find happiness again, he hopes he's a part of it. With that, I cried again and fell asleep.
ACK. I am a wreck. But I have to keep it together - I am 1 semester away from my BS degree and I work full time, 2 kids, etc. I don't have time to deal with this. I just want to fake it some more until I am done with school. Then maybe I can explore this person I've somehow awakened (me) and get reacquainted. Right now, she is scaring the hell out of me.
congratulations on your upcoming graduation! I think these feelings are something we struggle with off and on throught life. It is hard to let go, especially when you rely on him to do his part. I think we have all been in different places and the disease is progressive. I can read your post and think back to when it was like that for me and then fast forward to him living on the street. I tried to hard to MAKE him get better, to go to treatment, to go to meetings, to do SOMETHING! But in the end it all comes down to the fact that you can't make anyone do anything, and then all that's left is you and what you can and cannot accept. Thanks for posting, I don't think your problems are petty at all!
