This must be one heck of a guy!!! - Al-Anon Family Group

snoopy · Veteran Member

This must be one heck of a guy!!!

ZiggyDoodles · Senior Member

Sounds as though the man believes in his program. He is one of those true inspirations that the program works if we work it. Still we must not put on a pedastool (spelling?). When we hold someone so high....chances are we will get disappointed, more so than any other person we don't hold so high.

We have to focus on striving for a person we wish to be. Stick close to those that inspire something in us and know that we are all struggling....no matter what. We are human. We do and will hit bumps along the road no matter what.

Ziggy

snoopy · Veteran Member

ZiggyDoodles wrote:

Sounds as though the man believes in his program. He is one of those true inspirations that the program works if we work it. Still we must not put on a pedastool (spelling?). When we hold someone so high....chances are we will get disappointed, more so than any other person we don't hold so high.

We have to focus on striving for a person we wish to be. Stick close to those that inspire something in us and know that we are all struggling....no matter what. We are human. We do and will hit bumps along the road no matter what.

Ziggy

Actually, this was not on an AA messageboard but a religious theme board. Not that a God fearing man can't falter also, but I am under the impression that he is not an Alcoholic and doesn't work any program other than that of being a good husband and an honest man of integrity and character.--something I have not been exposed to in my marriage. I'm praying though. I want to get through this so maybe someday I too can love a man that treats me well. My therapist said that when I do, there is nothing like it.

On another note, I have a friend that is dating a former meth addict who just got out of treatment and I shudder to think about how she tells me that she is so glad to get scraps of attention from him. I want to puke. She tells him she loves him and he simply says, let's see how it goes. As God is my witness, I will never accept scraps from a man ever again. If he doesn't love me and treat me like a queen, then I will be happier single for the rest of my life if need be. I have been treated like shit enough to last a lifetime. See what posting here has done for my self-esteem already? I AM WORTHY!!!

ZiggyDoodles · Senior Member

Good for you Snoopy!!! What progress you have made! Awesome!

He still is a man of honor. Still shows us there are honorable people out there. How inspiring to say the least.

Ziggy

barisax · Senior Member

I'd at least want to hear from the wife before proclaiming sainthood for this guy. He spends two paragraphs essentially describing his own perfection. "God like" - oh puhhlease!!

Remember the part about comparing our insides to someone else's outsides.

I call BS.

Barisax

Jennifer · ~*Service Worker*~

((Snoopy))

My first thought was sounds wonderful, honorable.

My second thought nice words I need to see the actions that go along with it.

My third thought if he did his own laundry and cleaned the toilet he may be perfect.

What the heck kind of program am I working here? LOL

Jennifer

CJ · ~*Service Worker*~

i think i'm with barisax the ax

before i go buy the nails for the cross, i'm just going to add that manipulation is a word in all of our languages. my poop smells pretty bad, if ya really get down in it -- no pun intended, hehehe. my only experience is: humility is the greatest form of humbleness -- i don't hear much humility....

with love
cj

carolena · Senior Member

Did my A write that???? :)

He forgot to say that he doesn't share finances with me, puts everyone else before me, has sworn at me right after we left church, etc., etc., etc. and has told me that someone needs to smash my face in!!

Otherwise, he did a good job!

In all seriousness, yes, Snoopy, it would be great to have someone if he was all that.

snoopy · Veteran Member

Come on, you guys. Don't burst my bubble like this!!!. I want to think that there are still men like this in the world. Don't you at least agree that if he is actually doing the things he says, like not cheating, being a father, not squandering money, etc, he is a step above all the rest? I got to put up with lying, cheating, abuse, addiction, selfishness, controlling, and dismissal. This guy sounds like a dream to me. Bring someone like him on!!!. Let's encourage honesty, integrity, character, and losing the selfishness!!! Yeah!!!

barisax · Senior Member

Jennifer wrote:

My first thought was sounds wonderful, honorable.
My second thought nice words I need to see the actions that go along with it.
My third thought if he did his own laundry and cleaned the toilet he may be perfect.
What the heck kind of program am I working here? LOL

I do my own laundry and clean my own toilets. It's not because I'm perfect, actually it's because my own p**p does stink and if I don't do it, nobody will

While the ideals described by Mr. Godlike may be desireable, a person who says that about himself is highly suspect. So aspire to the goal, but be skeptical if somebody jumps out of the bushes and says "Stop searching! You've found me!"

Sorry to be a bubble buster but that's the way I see it.

Barisax

Jennifer · ~*Service Worker*~

Snoopy,

People with honor and integrity do exist. Men and women ... As, CoD, we all have it inside of us. What I find beautiful about your post/his writing is that someone felt it enough to write it. And I understand what is attractive about what he wrote. To have someone who wants your trust and respect AND is in a place in their life to acheive it is ... well wonderful.

One of my worst fears is that after my divorce and everything goes thru I will meet someone who in comparision to my A seems so wonderful that my high tolerance for pain may mask serious problems within a relationship. That is where my joking reply came from FEAR. Cynical as it may seem, my second thought is the lasting one for me. I have heard enough words similar to those. And no matter how many words I hear that I like it is action that counts. For now my dreams of a knight in shiny armor coming to enhance my life are on hold. I think I would like to learn how to enjoy my own life first.

Jennifer

CJ · ~*Service Worker*~

Jennifer --

how true, very valid FEAR, i struggle with this to the point of insomnia - i have much to learn, i hope you stay and share

with love,
cj

snoopy · Veteran Member

Jennifer wrote:

Snoopy,

People with honor and integrity do exist. Men and women ... As, CoD, we all have it inside of us. What I find beautiful about your post/his writing is that someone felt it enough to write it. And I understand what is attractive about what he wrote. To have someone who wants your trust and respect AND is in a place in their life to acheive it is ... well wonderful.

One of my worst fears is that after my divorce and everything goes thru I will meet someone who in comparision to my A seems so wonderful that my high tolerance for pain may mask serious problems within a relationship. That is where my joking reply came from FEAR. Cynical as it may seem, my second thought is the lasting one for me. I have heard enough words similar to those. And no matter how many words I hear that I like it is action that counts. For now my dreams of a knight in shiny armor coming to enhance my life are on hold. I think I would like to learn how to enjoy my own life first.

Jennifer

It sounds like we are in the same place, in the midst of a divorce, and only God knows how it will really turn out for us. Sometimes, I just want to turn the clock ahead a year to see if I'm still alive, somewhat sane, and maybe even happy. I can't imagine it now, but as I used to say with my last pregnancy which lasted 10 months. This too shall pass. I think we as women should step up to the plate more and gather our sisters around and spread the word that we teach others how to treat us. If we accept being treated like shit, then there is always some asshole willing to do that to us. If we would say "hit the road jack" more often, then maybe the assholes would dwindle in numbers, because they wouldn't have anyone left to shit on. We would all be in relationships with the good guys. The dicks would be left all alone. Boo Hoo.

Let's get a movement started. Maybe we could bring some old Vietnam War Protest songs from out of the attic and shake things up a bit.

Love, Snoopy

snoopy · Veteran Member

barisax wrote:

Jennifer wrote:
I do my own laundry and clean my own toilets. It's not because I'm perfect, actually it's because my own p**p does stink and if I don't do it, nobody will

While the ideals described by Mr. Godlike may be desireable, a person who says that about himself is highly suspect. So aspire to the goal, but be skeptical if somebody jumps out of the bushes and says "Stop searching! You've found me!"

Sorry to be a bubble buster but that's the way I see it.

Barisax

Dear Mr. Barisax:

Maybe Mr. Godlike really is out there in massive numbers, but he is too scared to come out into the open because testosterone overloaded assholes are waiting in the wings to make fun of him. (Please know that I don't mean you, Mr. Barisax, as I have read some of your other posts and you do seem like one of the good guys, or at least one with a sense of humor.)

Maybe he was giving an example of how women should be treated, not how they usually are by selfish A's. As I said in an earlier post, if we women would only pay attention to the Mr. Godlike's of the world, then the assholes would either have to turn over a new leaf and change into a Mr. Godlike of their own or spend their evenings alone, and learn how to cook , clean, and have sex with themselves. Makes sense to me!!! I LET my selfish Alcoholic Asshole treat me like shit.

In rereading this post I realize I may have come across a little too harsh, and I am sorry for that, but I think the message is still valid.

-- Edited by snoopy at 19:52, 2006-12-29

ZiggyDoodles · Senior Member

There are many people like this...male and female....who truly are this way. No one has the right to judge. A quick look at myself tells me that.

Ziggy

barisax · Senior Member

snoopy wrote:

Maybe Mr. Godlike really is out there in massive numbers, but he is too scared to come out into the open because testosterone overloaded assholes are waiting in the wings to make fun of him.

If you mean people who believe they are perfect and have everything figured out and there is nothing left to learn, then you are correct... massive numbers.

(Please know that I don't mean you, Mr. Barisax, as I have read some of your other posts and you do seem like one of the good guys, or at least one with a sense of humor.)

No, I am not one of the good guys. I'm not one of the good guys that women line up for... nor am I one of the assholes that women line up for. I'm just... one of the guys. So is Mr. Godlike. If he is better than me (or anyone else), wonderful. But I'm not going to assume he is just because he says so. Also his comments out of context (I assume from a thread someplace else) make him come across as extremely self righteous. I distrust self righteousness. I've had my fill of it. I'm not making fun of it, I'm saying it's FOS. There is a difference.

Maybe he was giving an example of how women should be treated, not how they usually are by selfish A's. As I said in an earlier post, if we women would only pay attention to the Mr. Godlike's of the world, then the assholes would either have to turn over a new leaf and change into a Mr. Godlike of their own or spend their evenings alone, and learn how to cook , clean, and have sex with themselves.

Yes, this describes me pretty well. However, I don't necessarily believe it's a bad thing. I'm not trying to be funny - your last sentence describes me, and it's ok with me. Who women (individually or collectively) choose to be attracted to, is beyond my control. The worst thing I can do is pretend to be something I'm not, even if it would solve my "loneliness". Expecially if it would solve my loneliness.

In rereading this post I realize I may have come across a little too harsh, and I am sorry for that, but I think the message is still valid.

No matter, it is what it is.

Barisax

CJ · ~*Service Worker*~

the day i start pointing out who is better and who is worse, who is the type of guy or gal that is desirable and so on, is the day I invite you all to come over and take turns pummeling me with a shards of broken glass.

in conclusion, our collective reality is who we surround ourselves with. period. you either accept your chosen associates as they are, or stay SICK. Reality check yourselves.

with love
cj

snoopy · Veteran Member

Sorry to offend you Mr. Barisax. That was not my intent. My intent is only to tell other women, men and myself that no one has the right to threat you like shit. I am worth more than that and so is everyone else who has been cheated on, hit, slapped, ignored, dismissed, etc, and felt like they were walking on eggshells constantly. Whatever I do, make sure I don't piss off the A. Well, that's exactly what I should have done--Gotten mad and left him. Maybe stood up to him and called the police. But I didn't. I molded myself into what he wanted and then he got bored, lost respect for me and walked out on myself and our 3 children. If you don't think you are husband material, (correct me if I'm wrong), then I respect you immensly for staying single and not making some poor woman miserable and bringing children into this KAOS. I had a great uncle who, as legend has it was dating a wonderful woman whom everyone thought would marry him. Pretty soon she was nowhere around, and my grandpa said, "What happened to Betty? He said, well, she told me to choose between her and the bottle. And I chose the bottle." For that I say he has a place in heaven next to God almighty, because he saved this innocent woman from a life of misery. She went on to marry a nice man and have a nice family. God Bless him.

I guess what I want to get in my head is that you show people how to treat you. I gave my husband permission to lie to me, to be critical and sarcastic and controlling. We need to get the word out that while there are no perfect people out there, there are ones like my original post who are respected and trusted because they EARNED it. And those men probably had women lined up wanting to date them. Maybe if no one wanted to date the jerks, then eventually they would get the hint and change into a decent person. We need to give more positive affirmation to men of character, honesty,and integrity, and ignore the jerks. Just like you would a child's disrespectful behavior.

My husband cheated on me while we were engaged. I was at home with a ring on my finger planning our wedding, and he was living and working in another town getting drunk and screwing women. I didn't find out about this until 2 years into our marriage and it came out when he went through treatment. How do you think this made me feel. And the flirting and hustling and checking out women's asses when they walked by did not stop until years later when he had problems getting it up. Sorry to be so crude. If I had not felt like it was a sacramental marriage and he didn't try so hard to manipulate me into staying, I would have been gone and at 24 years old maybe could have had a good life with someone else. Just one of my stories from my book.

All I am saying, is , don't let some jerk get away with treating you like shit. I'm not mad at you or anyone else, I am mad at myself. Amen.

RainyJamie · Senior Member

This is a little like a dispute my H and I are always having. He thinks I should be satisfied with him because, even though he's a drunk jerk that spends as much time as he can out of the house, he is not out there shooting dope, robbing banks, and otherwise whoring around. How can I explain to him that he can do better than not totally horrible. That I had expectations of him to be a good man.

CJ · ~*Service Worker*~

YEEEEEEAAAH Jamie!!!!!

you got to this point rather early! do you know which i mean?

okay, sit down. okay you are, cause you're at your computer. okay, ready...

ask yourself...

Can
you
ACCEPT

your husband how he is, this very moment?

with love
cj

Friendofyours · ~*Service Worker*~

There are good men out there but they ALL have faults. Its up to us to find one with faults that we are willing to accept........somehow doing laundry for one that doesn't know how doesn't sound so bad anymore.

My first thought on the original guy is "omg he must be ugly as hell" hehehehe I know....shallow but come on!

My ah will clean house, do whatever I want and can be a great father......it's just the times he is drunk makes ALL of the good things he does go right in the garbage. It's funny how I can remember all the bad he does and the good seems far between. It's like I was this beautiful rock and piece by piece he chipped away at me. Sorry but you can't glue back a rock. It's never the same.

I live on the faith that I will find a man that will treat me good. That's where counseling comes in to make sure I don't screw him up!! lol

Keep the faith girl, that's sometimes all you have to live on.

CJ · ~*Service Worker*~

Friendofyours wrote:

There are good men out there but they ALL have faults. Its up to us to find one with faults that we are willing to accept........

I think a lot of us are still missing the point here. EVERYBODY has faults. EVERY SINGLE ONE of us. OUR concentration and focus NEEDS to be on OURSELVES, and not taking INVENTORY of others. I want to encourage all of us to reread the steps, specifically 4-7:

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of OURSELVES.

5. Admitted to OURSELVES, to GOD, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have GOD remove these defects of character.

7. HUMBLY asked GOD to remove our shortcomings.

Please, all, this is not intended as anything other than a reminder in keeping with our own program.

much love and blessings in the new year
cj

snoopy · Veteran Member

CJ wrote:

Friendofyours wrote:

There are good men out there but they ALL have faults. Its up to us to find one with faults that we are willing to accept........

I think a lot of us are still missing the point here. EVERYBODY has faults. EVERY SINGLE ONE of us. OUR concentration and focus NEEDS to be on OURSELVES, and not taking INVENTORY of others. I want to encourage all of us to reread the steps, specifically 4-7:

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of OURSELVES.

5. Admitted to OURSELVES, to GOD, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have GOD remove these defects of character.

7. HUMBLY asked GOD to remove our shortcomings.

Please, all, this is not intended as anything other than a reminder in keeping with our own program.

much love and blessings in the new year
cj

Sorry CJ--There are somethings that Alanon and steps 4-7 cannot fix. It really didn't matter how many times I made a fearless moral inventory of myself and admitted my shortcomings. My husband was still going to abuse, hurt, lie, manipulate and dismiss me. Everyone who is contemplating marriage or even a relationship must take a moral inventory of the other person as well as themselves. I wish to God I had. I was 18 years old and so in love, and that was all that mattered. If I had been realistic and not in denial, I would have seen the signs from almost the beginning. I don't think that I was even desperate. I had self-esteem back then and alot of dreams and the ability to carry them out. That's exactly what I should have done is taken a moral inventory of Loren. I could have seen that his lies and manipulations and flirting and controlling were poison,and I could have saved myself and innocent children alot of misery.

I really think that in abuse situations if people are going to tell the abused victim that things were their fault, that they had defects also and questioned whether they provoked the abuser, that that is a detriment to recovery to the victim. There is NO reason to be hit, slapped, thrown around,controlled, or have to walk on eggshells. None!!!!!! Anyone who has had to endure this did nothing to cause it or deserve it. This is entirely the Abuser's fault, and maybe the Alcohol just gave him the courage to do what he wanted to do anyway.Telling me to look at my own shortcomings just perpetuates what he wanted me to think all along. That everything is really my fault and that I provoked him.

This is just an opinion of mine and in no way is meant to undermine anyone elses. But-- if you haven't walked in the shoes of an abuse victim, than maybe my account may help see another side.

Still friends, I hope,

Snoopy

kismetstrand · ~*Service Worker*~

Ok, so I don't get it. I don't really see a lack of humility in what this man said. The way I read it, seems he was just expressing to other men how it was that his relationship worked so well. Mutual Respect and Trust. His wife respects him for how he behaves, and he respects his wife and her decisions. Trust... they trust one another to act in a way that benefits their relationship and their family. I would expect they have good communication with one another also. And that they have a solid spiritual foundation that probably plays a big role in their life. Seems he was just sharing his own ESH on all that.

I do know people can talk a good talk, yet in "real life" be totally opposite of what they try to portray themselves as. Not knowing this person, I certainly couldn't say whether he was "for real" or not. What I can say is, I have known people like this. My childhood best friend has a marriage like that. Walking into her home was like stepping into a lovely slice of paradise. She and her husband and her two daughters treated each other so lovingly and caringly. They truly lived what they preached. They didn't just talk the talk, they walked the walk.

I have a brother (younger) who I also admire for these same qualities. He is the most mild-mannered man. Sure he can get upset...but he is "slow to anger" and does not cuss or yell, but will talk it out reasonably. I have observed his relationship over the years and often wondered how he was able to remain so calm and caring at times (and to be honest I have wanted to shake his wife and say "wake up! can't you see what a good man you have? why are you being like that??"), but ya know, he realizes she has some "issues" and he also realizes that arguing and fighting isn't going to make the situation any better. He has patience galore. He also has a very strong spirituality.

So yeah, there are people like that out there. And ya know what? We can become just like them too. Isn't that what this program is about? Teaching us how to be healthy people? How to act in positive good ways rather than reacting in negative ugly ways. It can happen. Works if you work it.

Luv, Kis

CJ · ~*Service Worker*~

(((((snoopy))))))

i am one who was physically and mentally abused; feel free to read my past posts. my Awife has an assault hearing next week, again. i do understand, and i have walked in those shoes. i agree that no other PERSON (man or woman) should be so malevolent as to be violent, extra-especially with the ones that have dedicated their love and feel obligated by THE TIES THAT BIND (ie. marriage). the choices we've made, whether to stay or to go, or to marry in the first place, are OUR choices. it is OUR side of the street.

"take moral inventory of our partner"? no. at least for me, that is no. i hope in my life of recovery that i can BE AWARE, MAKE GOOD DECISIONS, be the best me and let my HP in to guide me. when, and if, i shall be blessed enough to have a partner to share my intimacy and love, it will be in total. my recovery and self-work is a part of me and my partner will have to accept me, with all my faults and good qualities, alike. the same for them. i am worthy of CHOOSING to spend my life with a person whose faults and good qualities that i can accept as well.

((((all)))) i think this is a very important topic and i appreciate all the input. please, please, please, take what you want and leave the rest. my views are my views and truth is only found in our individual hearts and minds.

with love
cj

lmt123 · Senior Member

(((((((((((Snoopy))))))))))))))

I met my second husband at church. We hung around together several nites a week. He worked in town, and I would go by his family's business to see him anytime I wanted. I knew where he was every minute of the day. He opened doors for me, made plans for us to go out to places very special, called me when he said he was going to call. His family loved me and wanted us to get married. He was loved by his family, daughter, all his friends. He never spoke an unkind word to me.

He conducted himself in a God-like manner, and never hung out with "the guys". He never gambled. He was/is handsome, and I loved to look at him, spend time with him, just be with him.

We dated a year and then got married.

Fast-forward 3 1/2 years to where I find out he's been leading a secret life. He got his first of the two dui's since we have been married (really his 9th or 10th in his drinking career...). He had a hit-and-run a year and a half into our marriage (I didn't know for sure, but suspected it was him, because of things he said...long story...). He stole money from his family and me (I kept wondering where money was disappearing to...sigh...). He had been fired from several jobs prior to me meeting him ~ the only reason he was working was because his family wouldn't fire him, they knew how he was. He was CHEATING ON ME with his ex-g/f while we were dating, engaged, and MARRIED.

This was my God-like, too-good-to-be-true man that I thought I'd waited my entire life for. I had even told him that on a couple occasions.

I don't think God-like people even exist...not to burst your bubble, but simply because mine has been busted more times than not. So sad, I know, but I know not to put my faith in anyone other than my HP.

Thank you for sharing that with us Snoopy. Just my take on my life.

Much love,

Kathi

Jill · ~*Service Worker*~

yes but what's with the "leading"? It just doesn't ring true. With Bari I'd like to hear the wife's description of her life with the leader.

I appreciate the dialogue. Jill

lin0606 · ~*Service Worker*~

Another aspect of this, which I think has not been raised yet - lots of us don't even see the nice guy, because there is something in us that is attracted to the dangerous guy. Please understand, I am not 'blaming the victim" here, saying "Oh, you picked him, you must like it". Not in the least.

For some of us, it might be the desire to save him. For others, raised in unhealthy homes, that 'dangerous' quality is what love feels like, because it is what we got from daddy. Some might just get a thrill from a small frisson of fear, not knowing that some day it will change from a little thrill to a real terror.

To a lot of silly young girls, the bad boy is sexy, the nice guy is boring. Everything in our culture leads us that way, too. It's when we mature into grown women that we realize we have tied ourselves to bad boys who have no intention of growing up - then the responsible, reliable, truly adult man looks good. But by then , they are all snapped up by women who have no intention of letting go of them!

Jennifer · ~*Service Worker*~

My red flag word was "allows" ... allows me to lead ... hmmm in my relationship with my A I felt i had to lead, he allowed me to lead so he could rebel against my horribly tight restrictions whenever he needed to blow off steam or blame bad decisions on someone else. Is this guy walking on eggshells, trying to reach impossible goals to please his wife? And the flip side ... he thinks he is all that but his wife may see things we don't. We'll never know.

I was also going to mention something along the lines of Lin's post. I was not attracted to other men, I was attracted to my A. That was my part, I did NOT deserve and am NOT responsible for his actions or decisions. I will own up to the fact that I had warning signs, and if I would have had boundaries set in place in my life I would not have accepted our living situation for long. If I was not in denial, I would not have believed his words of change etc. If I had focused on running my life instead of trying to mold his to my way of thinking I would be in a very different place right now.

Jennifer

barisax · Senior Member

I think my original point may have been lost here.

It's not about whether or not the person - quoted anonymously - is what he claims to be. Maybe he is.

It's about US, and how we react to people. Isn't part of our disease, that we want to believe what our A tells us? Especially if it sounds really, really good? Not just our A... we seek out people that tell us - consciously or not - what we want to hear. Sometimes these people are just being themselves, and we read things into their words that aren't there. Sometimes they are deliberately manipulative. If we try to keep a score sheet, and give other people such power over our thoughts, we will drive ourselves crazy!

I don't find my answers in fantasizing about a perfect mate, or looking around for someone that sounds too good to be true. I already did that. I did it with my father first, then after he was gone, I looked for someone else to be right, someone else to lead me. They ALWAYS failed me. Always. It wasn't their fault... it was my fault for making another human being my higher power.

What I'm saying is... this one little thing, a person who - from my point of view - could be either trying to explain something intangible, or tooting his own horn - or both - and the debate forms around: is this person telling the truth or not, or do such people exist and wouldn't it be nice if we could find them instead of the !@^%#%^$ we found instead. This anonymous person's intent is irrelevant - other than what our reaction to his quoted words says about us.

It's about us. Not them. Even if they ARE perfect. It's still our program, our life, our recovery.

The answer to abuse is to stop the abuse... remove the abuser... not to hang around until the White Knight (or White Princess) arrives.

Barisax

snoopy · Veteran Member

lin0606 wrote:

Another aspect of this, which I think has not been raised yet - lots of us don't even see the nice guy, because there is something in us that is attracted to the dangerous guy. Please understand, I am not 'blaming the victim" here, saying "Oh, you picked him, you must like it". Not in the least.

For some of us, it might be the desire to save him. For others, raised in unhealthy homes, that 'dangerous' quality is what love feels like, because it is what we got from daddy. Some might just get a thrill from a small frisson of fear, not knowing that some day it will change from a little thrill to a real terror.

To a lot of silly young girls, the bad boy is sexy, the nice guy is boring. Everything in our culture leads us that way, too. It's when we mature into grown women that we realize we have tied ourselves to bad boys who have no intention of growing up - then the responsible, reliable, truly adult man looks good. But by then , they are all snapped up by women who have no intention of letting go of them!

Amen, Amen, Amen!!!!! Especially the last paragraph. This is the word that I will try to spread as I wish someone would have spread it to me. I was a naive stupid 18 year old that was so in love that I did not think of the important things like honesty, compassion, fidelity and letting me be me. He talked the talk and I was so blinded that the signs were probably there in the beginning, but I was just not seeing them. I wanted so badly to have this good looking, funny, adventerous, high energy guy who could love me like I've never been loved before. Just to give you the whole picture, I was also those things and who had self confidence and hopes and dreams. He chased me all over the place to get me to marry him, and I remember him saying that "this is the last time I'm going to ask you to marry me". I remember thinking that I'd better say yes if I didn't want to lose him. It seemed a match made in heaven as we had so many things in common on the surface. What I came to hate was his hair-trigger temper, need to control through physical, verbal and emotional means and how he showed me what the opposite of compassion could be. At 18 I maybe can excuse myself a little. At 50, there is no longer an excuse. I know that countless others will make the same mistake as I did, but I do intend on telling those that I care about to think long and hard and be realistic when choosing a partner and never to let your passions override your brains. Also, if you or your partner is not 150% committed to the marriage vows, then for God's sake, don't get married. Do not do it. Ever. Maybe someone can learn through my stupid mistakes. Thanks for listening.

Love, Snoopy

Friendofyours · ~*Service Worker*~

CJ wrote:

(((((snoopy))))))

i am one who was physically and mentally abused; feel free to read my past posts. my Awife has an assault hearing next week, again. i do understand, and i have walked in those shoes. i agree that no other PERSON (man or woman) should be so malevolent as to be violent, extra-especially with the ones that have dedicated their love and feel obligated by THE TIES THAT BIND (ie. marriage). the choices we've made, whether to stay or to go, or to marry in the first place, are OUR choices. it is OUR side of the street.

"take moral inventory of our partner"? no. at least for me, that is no. i hope in my life of recovery that i can BE AWARE, MAKE GOOD DECISIONS, be the best me and let my HP in to guide me. when, and if, i shall be blessed enough to have a partner to share my intimacy and love, it will be in total. my recovery and self-work is a part of me and my partner will have to accept me, with all my faults and good qualities, alike. the same for them. i am worthy of CHOOSING to spend my life with a person whose faults and good qualities that i can accept as well.

((((all)))) i think this is a very important topic and i appreciate all the input. please, please, please, take what you want and leave the rest. my views are my views and truth is only found in our individual hearts and minds.

with love
cj

I have read your story CJ and as horrible as it is, there is a big difference in a woman hitting a man who is a bigger man (an Airforce man) then a woman who is smaller then her husband. I'm sure the indimidation factor did not play much of a role there.

So what does she do AFTER she's taken what you posted into account? She does need to take care of herself but she needs to be validated as a person and not read the rights. I was abused a few times, but I fought back and was never hit again. Although, your problems with your wife are horrible for you, it's not the same as what she's going through. That's my opinion, she can correct me if I am wrong. And NO a woman does NOT have to accept a man for his faults. That's BS. A woman doesn't have to take crap. (sorry, hit a nerve. hehehe) There comes a time to put an end to it all. I don't mean to come off as rude but I do not play the "victim role" well.

barisax · Senior Member

Friendofyours wrote:

So what does she do AFTER she's taken what you posted into account? She does need to take care of herself but she needs to be validated as a person and not read the rights. I was abused a few times, but I fought back and was never hit again. Although, your problems with your wife are horrible for you, it's not the same as what she's going through. That's my opinion, she can correct me if I am wrong. And NO a woman does NOT have to accept a man for his faults. That's BS. A woman doesn't have to take crap. (sorry, hit a nerve. hehehe) There comes a time to put an end to it all. I don't mean to come off as rude but I do not play the "victim role" well.

To clarify from my point of view: I agree totally. There is no reason to take crap, *especially* if its physical. I have zero tolerance for domestic violence, or the more descriptive but less politically correct term, "wife beating". I know if you study history, it has been done for centuries. That doesn't make it right. Our present day society, in most of the world, has decided it's not right and I am in complete agreement.

I have a short fuse. Anyone who knows me can tell you that. Anyone who has known me for a while can also tell you that I'm getting better. And while I like to yell and cuss - mostly at inanimate objects, computers, and faceless vehicles on the highway, I have never struck another human being in anger since my last fight in junior high school. I wasn't a very tough guy, and I preferred to avoid a fight. I wasn't an angry, fighting drunk... more of the wobbly, giddy, happy drunk. I found when I got sober, I had to learn new ways to deal with anger. I had to learn some concept of perception, how to put myself in the other person's place when I said something unkind or mean. Even to a telemarketer. I'm nowhere near perfect. If I had to be slapped in the face hard for every cuss word I uttered, I'd be beaten to the point of brain damage in less than a day.

And I think if I were to ever physically hurt another person - especially someone I loved - or a child - due to my own anger, I'd probably just go out in the woods and blow my brains out. But I don't want to do that! I don't want to ever come to that! I'm not suicidal. I love life... but I don't think I could live with a crime like that on my conscience.

As for the verbal things... step 10, step 10, step 10, and more step 10. I hate having to admit I'm wrong, I hate apologizing for being a jerk. I hate being a jerk! So sometimes - not all the time - but sometimes - I count to 10 before being a jerk. Or 20, or 60. And I can decide to walk away, or say something else, or count to 60 again. My first thought is rarely the right one.

As a walking example of failure, I realize I have no useful suggestions on the subject of an intimate relationship. Except this: meeting the perfect person is not the end of the process. It's the beginning. After that comes hard work. I *am* willing to do the work. But not for just anybody. I don't have a clue what my "perfect" person would be like. I've been wrong so many times, I try to put the thought out of my mind. I can write a preposterous fantasy - I'm sure all of us can. But most of us won't know the right person until we're way down the road with that person and can look her or him in the eye and say "oh yeah!"

As a self-diagnosed and certified asshole, I am a strong advocate of just say NO to assholes.

I have also had to learn and act the difference between just being a jerk, and being adamant and standing my ground. I think the hardest thing of all is to stand my ground when 90% of the world is accusing me of being a jerk just for the sake of being a jerk. To not give up, not give in. If I give up, I'm just being a people pleaser and compromising my principles. If I give in, I become the asshole everybody is saying I am. It's hard but... I've discovered I really enjoy doing hard things. This work - and it's pretty well outlined in the steps - will keep me busy, by myself, for the rest of my life.

Barisax

CJ · ~*Service Worker*~

Friendofyours wrote:

I have read your story CJ and as horrible as it is, there is a big difference in a woman hitting a man who is a bigger man (an Airforce man) then a woman who is smaller then her husband. I'm sure the indimidation factor did not play much of a role there.

So what does she do AFTER she's taken what you posted into account? She does need to take care of herself but she needs to be validated as a person and not read the rights. I was abused a few times, but I fought back and was never hit again. Although, your problems with your wife are horrible for you, it's not the same as what she's going through. That's my opinion, she can correct me if I am wrong. And NO a woman does NOT have to accept a man for his faults. That's BS. A woman doesn't have to take crap. (sorry, hit a nerve. hehehe) There comes a time to put an end to it all. I don't mean to come off as rude but I do not play the "victim role" well.

1) I am a man, with the skills and tools I am continuously learning and trying to share with others. I do not "downplay" any of what other people share - especially to justify a point I'm trying to make on this board or in any setting.

2) Tell me the big difference between a man hitting a woman, and a woman hitting a man? "I'm sure the intimidation factor didn't play much of a role there." You are sure? You are sure of what happened in my house here in Washington? Can you tell me the rest of what happened to my wife and I, in case I'm not seeing it clear enough. I sent you a PM on assuming the other day, and you know my mind on that. 'nuff said.

3) I am not playing the part of a victim, nor advocating such action. I could've beat the holy hell out of my wife, and wanted too. How do you think a cop, my military bosses, and my family would react if I fought back? Do you think, perhaps, I was wrong in not HITTING my wife? My part as "victim" ended when I realized that I was POWERLESS OVER ALCOHOL, AND THAT MY LIFE HAD BECOME UNMANAGABLE.

4) I totally agree, "no woman has to accept a man for his faults" -- woman/man interchangable -- my point was that we have the benefit of CHOICE. we choose - or we choose not, or we choose to leave, or we choose to seek help, whatever, we choose.

5) To reply to what (((Snoopy))) wrote:

"I really think that in abuse situations if people are going to tell the abused victim that things were their fault, that they had defects also and questioned whether they provoked the abuser, that that is a detriment to recovery to the victim. There is NO reason to be hit, slapped, thrown around,controlled, or have to walk on eggshells. None!!!!!! Anyone who has had to endure this did nothing to cause it or deserve it. This is entirely the Abuser's fault, and maybe the Alcohol just gave him the courage to do what he wanted to do anyway.Telling me to look at my own shortcomings just perpetuates what he wanted me to think all along. That everything is really my fault and that I provoked him."

There is choice. You know his character and his defects. No person should EVER be in a situation where they are harmed, physically, mentally, or otherwise. Choose to leave, choose to call the police, choose to stay and endure. Choices.

6) Perhaps my post about keep working the steps (specifically 4-7) were not on target with Snoopy's original message. I apologize.

with love, always
cj

7) I had to edit this post after rereading what barisax said about being a certifiable asshole -- i think i was gravitating toward that. Please, take what you want and leave the rest. I am truly sorry if my words are taken in anything other than love and desire to share my recovery.

-- Edited by CJ at 01:44, 2007-01-02

mel123 · Senior Member

I totally agree with kis.....and you too snoopy. Why all the negative....there is a lot of good out there, and there is always hope....don't lose sight of hope!

God Bless.....

mel123

Christy · ~*Service Worker*~

((((((((CJ))))))))))

There is NO reason to be hit, slapped, thrown around,controlled, or have to walk on eggshells. None!!!!!!

well said,

Christy

bubbles1990 · Senior Member

I love you All (((((((((roomies)))))))))) But there is way to much drama here.....

Are we really working on ourselfs? Are we truly keeping the focus on us? Are we building a Relationship with our HP? Are we really at peace with ourselfs??

I agree we have good guys and we have bad guys we have good wives we have bad wives.... Really what does it matter? What truly matters is what is going on in side of Us.....Am I working my program? Am I building a Relationship with my HP? Am I changing the things I can with in me?

We all have talents,success, love, respect,honesty, truth, encouragement, and the list could go on but I think you have the Idea..... On the flip side we have all been hurt, bestayed , lied to ,anger.resentments,pain,blame, shame, guilt,gossip and much more as my list could go on again I think you know what I am saying......

How is any of this going back and forth I am a good guy your a good wife your a bad guy your a bad wife Helping with my recovery Its not!!!! be causes truly I could honestly careless what i care about is what is going on in me!!!! Am I a good wife,mother, daughter, sister, friend,and neighbor to those around me!!!! Am I practicing the 12 Steps and being an example to those around me whether my Alcoholic is drinking or Sober many years.........

I lived in so much hell as a child that as I grow in this program I hope I can mature in to a Healthy wonderful rolmodel for my Children they deserve better then what I got!!!!!!!!!

As I was reading though this post I saw good points about (((((((((((Snoopys)))))))))))post and I saw bad points that were brought out.... But what is really IMPORTIAN to me is my RECOVERY.....
My Serenity and my Happiness!!!!!!!

Thanks for letting we share!!!!!!

Take what you like and leave the rest!!!!!!

Bubbles123

snoopy · Veteran Member

I really think that in abuse situations if people are going to tell the abused victim that things were their fault, that they had defects also and questioned whether they provoked the abuser, that that is a detriment to recovery to the victim. There is NO reason to be hit, slapped, thrown around,controlled, or have to walk on eggshells. None!!!!!! Anyone who has had to endure this did nothing to cause it or deserve it. This is entirely the Abuser's fault, and maybe the Alcohol just gave him the courage to do what he wanted to do anyway.Telling me to look at my own shortcomings just perpetuates what he wanted me to think all along. That everything is really my fault and that I provoked him.

I recopied this from my own post because it highlights so much of my point. I totally respect all you for wanting to take care of yourselves and work your own program. However, I sometimes think that we as alanoners have a responsibility to suggest to those who are telling us of their abuse that that no one has a right to hurt someone else through abuse and violence. I think we miss the boat sometimes when someone is clearly hurting and we don't take the opportunity to maybe give them a phone number that may help them. I know for myself that I have heard countless times, " we're glad you're here, you're in the right place, thanks for coming." Empty words for those that are truly in need of help. Really, it sounded like more of a platitude or canned response than genuine concern for my safety. I suggest more literature at these meetings that give out information on abuse and phone numbers. Maybe they can be laid out at the tables or posted on the walls. To some people who are new, if they are told to just keep coming back and not to really get to the root of the problem, we are doing a disservice. This may be the only help they turn to and they clearly need to be sent somewhere where the abuse can stop.

I still love all you guys,

Snoopy

kismetstrand · ~*Service Worker*~

http://www.ncadv.org/

Main website to the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence

I do give that out anytime someone comes in that is experiencing domestic violence. There is a page in the beginning of our CAL book "How Al-Anon Works" titled "A Special Word to Anyone Confronted with Violence" which addresses the need for being safe and out of harm's way. It encourages seeking out additional help/resources.

Al-Anon is a "gentle process (which) unfolds gradually, over time." A person in physical danger does need to think of their safety (and that of their children if they have any) first and foremost. For those who have experienced this kind of abuse, they more than likely will be afraid to seek out help. We can encourage them to do so, give them information such as that website above, tell them THEY ARE WORTH IT and deserve to be safe and okay.

Yes we want them to keep coming back. Yes, we believe Al-Anon will help them, that this is the right place for them. But FIRSTLY, they need to be in a safe place.... Al-Anon will not work for them if they are dead. That may sound drastic, but some situations can be that drastic. If someone's life is in danger, we should be encouraging them to get to safety, assuring them that there IS help and that they can get through this, that people will and do care. Keep in mind that self-esteem is a huge issue and they simply may not know that there is a better way of life.

It is easy to google for domestic violence hotlines. Have done that also for a person in immediate need who needed help to get out. Any member can do this. We aren't trained for domestic violence situations, but we CAN get them to a phone number to someone who is trained for that.

Safety first.... Al-Anon will always be here waiting for them.

CJ · ~*Service Worker*~

well said, Kis, i think we are all on the same boat about not living in physical fear."
(((((roomies)))))

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.