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You know, recent postings bring together some thoughts I've had and rather than respond on the individual threads, I thought I'd try to summarize my thoughts a bit.
We've had recent threads on AAs in Alanon, Men in Alanon, and some very graphic descriptions of "male" behavior at its worst. Alcoholism is by no means a male-only affliction, nor is codependency a female-only phenomenon. But at least *in program*, my observations are that in AA the men far outnumber women. Probably 3 to 1. And in Alanon, the women outnumber the men by about the same ratio.
I know in my early attempts at Alanon, I felt completely out of place not only as an alcoholic but as a male. I felt literally like the fox in the henhouse, even though I'm not a "predator" personality at all. In fact, when it comes to my pursuit of the opposite sex I'm passive to a fault. If I were a bigger jerk (probably not as big as Isabela's old school-mate) I might have more success. I dunno. When I read about how much a woman will put up with to stay with a man who is "wonderful" for 5 whole minutes at a time, and a completely abusive loser the other 525,595 minutes of the year, and then look at the reasons my wife gave for dumping me, it makes me angry.
I understand this is part of the disease, both the behavior and my anger toward it.
When I look at the responses, you can almost draw a line down the middle and just by the context of the response - without looking at the name - know who are the guys and who are the gals. The gals offer sympathy, support, hugs, understanding... the guys offer analysis, action. LOL. Just like the Venus and Mars books.
I wonder if the disease and its effects on the family and individuals tends to exaggerate these traits?
I have been in Alanon for quite a few years, and on this board - moreso than in f2f meetings - I have to bite my tongue and delete my posts before clicking SEND, because it always comes down to "Why don't you just dump the jerk!!". My solution for Isabela would have been to let her husband at this other jerk and maybe solve two problems at once LOL.
I have mentioned this before -- in an AA meeting, dominance by one particular person is frowned upon. Actually, it's not frowned upon, it's laughed at. It gets nowhere. Alcoholics tend to be egomaniacs, and AA is a room full of very, very sharp pins. Anyone who blows up his balloon is going to get popped, and everyone will have a laugh at his expense.
Alanon isn't like this, and this is something I struggle with. A dominant personality *can* run amuck in an Alanon meeting - and while it's eventually dealt with, it takes sometimes weeks or months rather than the 5 seconds it takes AA to dispatch with such pompousity.
I am qualified for Alanon, but I'm a polar opposite personality from most Alanons, and I understand that opposites attract. It's hard for me to be myself in the Alanon setting without being disrespectful, or beginning to dominate. I have learned a LOT about self control, and regulating my own ego when I'm away from places that tend to put a lid on it naturally (AA meeting rooms). This enables me to be a functional human being in most of the world, including the workplace, within my extended family, and even in Alanon meetings My natural state of being is to be the center of attention, how alcoholic of me! Anything I do that goes against my natural state of being is progress. I spent most of my childhood being chided for my attention-seeking behavior, much of my early adulthood being rewarded for it (which made me feel vindicated for sure), and most of the time since getting into the program(s) trying to balance things out and become a decent person that people will want to be around. I'm making progress. I may even someday be a person that someone of the opposite sex will want to be more than friends with. But no rush there I suppose. If that ever happens, it will be because I meet someone different from anyone else I've ever known before. That would be something to see.
Anyway, this turned into more of a ramble than a succinct statement but I hope maybe somebody can relate to it. I feel safer talking about this kind of thing here than at f2f meetings, hard to say exactly why. I do still love being the center of attention, I'm sure I always will. Life-long, the learning is to do it in moderation and be aware of other people, know when enough is enough, etc.
I don't exactly know if it is a guy/girl thing an aa/al-anon thing. You are right though! My father was one of those tell it like it is--don't candy coat it kind of people. While not rude or mean not always what I would refer to as "tactful". My mother tended to smooth out the edges for him. While I tend to try to smooth out edges for other people I find that for my children I an a "tell it like it is-don't candy coat it kind of a person", but I also find I'm a do as I say not as I do kind of person. (Not that I'm a bad person, I just let others walk on me and look at other people's problems and hold my tongue when I am thinking -RUN, RUN for your life as far away as you can!!!!)
So I believe the two types can inhabit the same person. I also think that hearing from both sides is a good thing. (Sitting in a Birthday AA meeting this past weekend I kept cringing b/c the way they bantered with each other I "thought" was rude and could "hurt" someone's feelings--they don't seem to worry or think about those things---which I haven't decided yet is a good or bad thing). I may need to hear the "get your head out of your hiney and do the work" part but it doesn't sting so much when you get the support, encouragement and "niceties" to go along with that.
Don't know if this made much sense, but just my thoughts.
So I believe the two types can inhabit the same person. I also think that hearing from both sides is a good thing. (Sitting in a Birthday AA meeting this past weekend I kept cringing b/c the way they bantered with each other I "thought" was rude and could "hurt" someone's feelings--they don't seem to worry or think about those things---which I haven't decided yet is a good or bad thing). I may need to hear the "get your head out of your hiney and do the work" part but it doesn't sting so much when you get the support, encouragement and "niceties" to go along with that.
Long time ago, I was at a 5:30 meeting at an AA clubhouse. A guy came in a few minutes late, wearing a suit... when the chairperson asked if there was anyone there for the first time at the clubhouse (after asking for total newbies), this guy stood up and says, "I'm so-and-so, I'm an alcoholic... I'm visiting from Cleveland... I'm sorry I got here late but I..." and somebody yells "Sit down and shut up, yer not that important!" The whole place erupted in laughter and the guy from Cleveland thought it was the funniest of all. It was I think to him, "Welcome - you know where you're at - yep, this is a real AA place!"
I always think of that whenever I go to a meeting out of town. I was at a meeting a couple months ago that was utterly insane - heckling almost on par with a bad comedy club. It resembled the Rocky Horror show more than any AA meeting I've ever been to before. It's all part of that particular meeting's culture, unfortunately for the sake of anonymity I can't say where it was. But you could probably guess....
I know there have been many times I have thought RUN as fast as you can and don't look back. Actually about five minutes ago. I too have thought dump the jerk many a time and sometimes when I tell other people my story I can't believe what I'm saying. Is this really happening to me? Am I really doing this? Why can't I just "dump the jerk" and call it a day? well almost seven years actually which seems to be about as much as I can take - last one was seven years too and then a year later he fell down a flight of icy stairs and never woke up at 30. All I could think was THANK GOD it was her stairs and not mine!!! Now another 7 years have gone by and I'm at the crossroads again. Sometimes I wish I could just be like a guy OK that's it you've had your chance hit the road buddy. I would love to just tell it like it is...I don't care if the kids need a dad, you suck at it anyway, you have some delusion of what kind of parent you are that only exists in your head. OOOOO I could go on and on. The rage is right there under the surface mixed in with the disappointment and resentment. I wish I could just turn off the caring ok thru with u just like that!
My natural state of being is to be the center of attention, how alcoholic of me! Anything I do that goes against my natural state of being is progress. I spent most of my childhood being chided for my attention-seeking behavior, much of my early adulthood being rewarded for it (which made me feel vindicated for sure), and most of the time since getting into the program(s) trying to balance things out and become a decent person that people will want to be around. I'm making progress. I may even someday be a person that someone of the opposite sex will want to be more than friends with. But no rush there I suppose. If that ever happens, it will be because I meet someone different from anyone else I've ever known before. That would be something to see.