The material presented
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information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
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Ive been on the MIP chat lately and it has been incredible. its such a calming thing for me.
My A has been drinking 7 days outof the past 9 days. he thinks it is ok because he isnt abusive, or falling over or passing out... so of course it is me who has the problem.
Ive tried my hardest not to fight with him, and much to my amazement, in this last week and a half we really only had one fight(only because i am removing myself from any room he is in!)
He was sober last night, and i decided to talk to him about it then.
I told him i would like to postpone the wedding as im not sure what the future holds for us. When he drinks, he sleeps in the spare room as i dont want him lying next to me. and last night, eventho he was sober, i still asked him to sleep in the spare room. i told him im happy to keep living under the same roof for now, but the spare room is now his room til we work out our problems.
Today, he sent me a text mesg while he was at work. he wrote that he was having a great day, and all the people at his work really appreciate him etc... it was a shot at me, coz ive been complaining that he's drinking too much.
He also wrote that he thinks we are not working as a couple because we have a personality clash. That made me FURIOUS.
I wrote back that it isnt a personality clash, that we would be fine if the drinking wasnt ruining us. and i told him that even the best relationship would be in danger with only minimal nights being sober.
Anyway,we are at the point where he is standing his ground, and declaring how he just wants to drink a coule of nights a week, and he keeps reminding me how we wouldnt have a problem if i would just chill out abit. I know i am right in thinking there is a drinking problem, but i sometimes find myself believeing that it isnt a huge problem. How can i stop myself from losing my way... how can it control me like that???
It's called the "cunning and baffling" disease. It's trying it's best to make you feel like there is no problem and you are nuts for suspecting a problem. But your intuition is right, there is a big problem. You have someone who's anesthetized (even when not drinking) so it's no use talking and reasoning with him and trying to get a straight answer out of him. Lying goes hand in hand with this disease. So is deflecting attention away from the problem and on to anything else - your insecurities or anything else that works.
For myself, it didn't matter what logical decision I made to clean up each mess - until I had some healing with Alanon under my belt for myself, those logical decisions were flawed to begin with.
So, best thing is to put decisions on hold and heal here...be patient and enjoy the process. Pretty soon the fog clears and you start to see clearly. Reading and listening to the literature was a Godsend for me.
You didn't cause his drinking, you can not control his drinking and you can't cure it.
I know we aren't suppose to give advise but - ending the relationship now is going to be much easier than after you are married. If there are no children and no combined investments get out.
Go to Alanon for a while and find inner peace then find a nice man you don't have to confront, plead with, worry about or try to fix.
I am in the middle of trying to decide what to do about my husband's drinking and staying out, etc etc. After 18 years of marriage there are many, many issues to consider. So why start out with a shit load of trouble?
Think - is this the way you want to spend the next year, 5 years 10?????
How brave of you to express your reservations about getting married, that had to be hard to do. I've been married to my A for 8 years, he tried very hard to give me the life I wanted. and for the most part did it well. At the same time he denied himself the life he wanted. After many lies. fights, relapses ... all the usual stuff, I found myself not caring who was right or wrong. My fears of his addictions are valid, his right to live his own life are valid, my right to live a life of peace and security are valid, his choice to live in chaos and destruction are valid. They just are not compatible. As silly as this sounds I have reached a point where I feel guilty that by being in his life I have kept him from experiencing the things he may have needed in order to find a healthy lifestyle, Instead of being his rock to lean on, I've been his anchor. It's so cliche but I really can say if i knew then what I know now .... my life would be in a very different place. I hope you find the strength and guidance from your HP to make the best decisions for you. Take care, and a big hug.
As you well know Alcoholism is a family disease and in most cases we are much sicker with the disease than the alcoholic is. One big problem in dealing with it is that they are drinking and numbing themselves to deal with it and we are trying to deal with it stone cold sober.
I told a doctor once that I thought I was going crazy and he said you know, it's not half bad. If you finally do go crazy you will no longer hurt, you won't care what anyone else is doing or how they are doing it, you will be at your bottom and the only way to go from there is up. So relax if you finally do go crazy you are on your way to recovery. That was many years ago but I still remember it as though it was yesterday.
When I can't decide what to do about something that is when I do absolutely nothing. The answer's will come from you HP we just have to be alert enough to see the solution.
HUGS
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Everything I have ever let go of has claw marks all over it.
Yep, I'm still new... been here about an hour now, but I'd like to share this with you.
My life was blissful, a little lonely (military), but pleasant. I was socking money away, concentrating mostly on the new house I bought and the war. After being reaquainted with my girl while on leave at my brother's wedding, we started talking more and more, and bonding, and loving, and so on... Her tragic life only dug farther into my heartstrings, and though I knew that a 110 LB girl shouldn't drink a case of beer in a night, I thought that by sweeping her off her feet and giving her a strong, stable life, she would drop the booze and we'd live happily ever after.
Fast forward 2 years.
I used to be the goto guy in my unit. I used to enjoy jogging, jazz, friends, events, going out to the bar and singing karoeke. I used to enjoy life. I can hardly stand looking at a beer. My coworkers only depend on me for abrasive comments of how I only had 2 hours of sleep. I don't have money for investments anymore, and perhaps a large attorney's bill looms in my future. I thank God I didn't have a child, even though that is most wanted desire. Chaos. I'm a wreck. I didn't cry for 8 years, seeing some horrible things while in the military. Now I cry at remembering half of the things my true love has said to me. Here is a taste of what you got coming should you choose to stay:
"Choose you or beer? Beer is more important than you." or
"Good luck on your next marriage."
Statistics show that there are roughly 25,000,000 bachelors in the U.S. alone. Discretion is the better part of valor.
c
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time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
It CAN get better, Not in a day, In a week, In a month, but If you work It, It works for you. And you are WORTH It. Try to look farward, and not go back, I know It's hard but what does looking back do for us. (It breaks the heart all over again). You can't cure an A, but you can cure an Al-Anon(lol).
Wishing you best wishes for the future, and If you stay In here It will get easier for you, I PROMISE you that.
the only thing keeping me going is the fact that i dont HAVE to get married. I know my life would be easier if i wasnt in this with him...and it is still an option.
I never thought i would be in this position...sometimes i feel stupid!!! how did i end up in this situation?????
Anyway, today is a strong day for me, so i know i will get by.
I'm glad you are here. This has been the best 1 day of my last 2 years (found this site last night). Ally's message to me on your post made me cry with relief.
Keep strong and make sure you keep your options open in case he doesn't choose to get help.
your friend
c
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time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
All I can say is go back and read the posts of the ones who are married with kids and the hell that we are enduring... What was is barisax said? "Dump the jerk" I believe in the mars/venus post... Anyway just a thought. As for CJ's comment 25 mil huh? Thanks for the spark of hope, maybe I'll find that one in 25 million..LOL Gotta weed out the ones that are too old, too young, don't want kids, too short, druggies and alcoholics, how many u think that leaves?
carolinagirl wrote: All I can say is go back and read the posts of the ones who are married with kids and the hell that we are enduring... What was is barisax said? "Dump the jerk" I believe in the mars/venus post... Anyway just a thought. As for CJ's comment 25 mil huh? Thanks for the spark of hope, maybe I'll find that one in 25 million..LOL Gotta weed out the ones that are too old, too young, don't want kids, too short, druggies and alcoholics, how many u think that leaves?
Ah, don't forget "too fat". Druggies and alcoholics... as well as jerks, bums, and unemployed ex-convicts all get in ahead of the fat guys. And you don't even have to be _that_ fat to fall to the end of the line. LOL... I think my wife objected to my sobriety because I gained weight. In my final drinking days I was starving myself so I could stay on my diet (sort of) and still drink, and I was at my lowest adult weight ever - still about 40 lbs over what the insurance company would like. My sponsor said first things first. Another decision I don't regret. If my wife had married an alcoholic hoping he would get sober, she'd still be with me. But no, she married a fat guy hoping he'd get skinny... and do it all for her.
I think I have spent a lifetime letting the A make me mad. That is so so key for me these days not to be overwhelmed with anger at him. He is sick, drunk, desperate to continue in his own control confusion chaos mess. I am not. There is a difference.
I think its good you have reservations. A's are good at making it all you.
They are also good at not being willing to take limits.
You have a right to know what you can and can't live with. He's challenging that. They can be very bull headed, set a limit and they go crazy. That is where the program comes in.
Focus on you and what you need. Don't make huge decisions just yet let the program work for you for a while. Put the break up if you want it on hold and work on you. When you have enough program under your belt you will find the right way to make whatever decision you maek work for you. The issue is that the program will help you make it without dramarama, chaos and confusion.
hugs arty, I have thought about your situation a lot. I married my A when he was in AA on a great program.
But after all the pain I have been through since then, I don't care if some one was sober twenty years on a program whatever, I would not marry them.
I just cannot live with the disease ever again. It almost killed me. After all these years I am still feeling the waves from it.
Think about the way it is now, as he continues to use, it will get worse. NO question. If he goes into recovery great. When he relapses, most do, he will be right back where he was when he began his recovery. And then continue on getting worse.
Would you want to bring kids into this?
It sounds like you are a very wise woman. I have to say I feel very sad for you. Am sure you had so many hopes and dreams, you must love him a lot.
Remember when we are talking to someone about them, and they turn it around and talk about you, they got ya, if you respond and argue to protect yourself.
Well the disease has you.
The thing is whether he drinks seven out of nine days or nine out of nine, it is not our business. Would you want someone talking about what you do? He has a right to do whatever he chooses.
That is part of detaching. Learning we cannot control what they do. Allowing them the dignity to live how they live.
We learn to look at ourselves instead. How can we better us? What do we want? If we want to live with an A, we need to learn to accept them as is. We can put boundaries up and consequences for someone stepping on them. But we have to stick to what we said.
Would we tell a diabetic not to have hi blood sugar? Or tell someone with asthma to quit couphing? Telling an A not to drink is the same thing. Using is a symptom of the disease.
It was brave of you to tell him you wanted to postpone the wedding. You are really looking at things with a mature head. I tend to be a dang Pollyanna.
It can only control you if you allow it. Plus your heart wants it to be ok. You had dreams with this man, you live with him. It is familiar.
I still, after all the horrible stuff the A disease put me thru, think maybe I will see my husband again. maybe. Now i really know i won't. But my heart aches sometimes.
Please keep coming back. I am so glad you are getting so much from the chat room. That room saved me thru many, many lonely days and nights.
You're not going crazy! He has a cunning baffling disease and it will do anything to make one take a drink. Stick to your boundaries. You're doing great. I'm proud of you.
Love and blessings to you.
Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
The way I look at it, it really doesn't matter if he is an alcoholic with a big problem, or if you are the one with the problem. The fact is, you have let the person who you want to marry know that something is bothering you immensely, and his response is to dismiss your feelings, and tell you it's all your fault. Now it's time to take that good long look in the mirror, and ask "Why do I want to marry this person?"
He has let you know what the answer is - he has no intention of quitting drinking. Now the ball is in your court - do you chose to walk, with your eyes open, into a situation where you know your wishes will be disregarded, and feelings will be laughed at, and you will be made to feel that there is something wrong with you for wanting what you want?
I chose to shut my eyes and walk into such a marriage, because I was "in love".
I try to keep a mostly upbeat outlook on this board - I believe that looking on the bright side and finding a sunny side of the street is a good thing. However, I cannot possibly tell you the depths of pain that my marriage has brought me. There are some parts of me that, no matter how much I heal, will be forever damaged. Worse, there are some parts of my children that are damaged that way too. I urge you to stop looking at him, and take a look at yourself. Ask yourself why you are willing to treat yourself with such disdain. You have no control over his actions, but you do have control over your own.
I've learned not to react (this is what he expects, and keeps the argument alive).........take a deep breath.....take time out...then maybe respond instead!
For me, this is where the power of journalling really helped me.... Write down things, how you feel, etc., at various times of your circumstances (i.e. when he is drunk, when he is mean, when you are worried, when you don't know where he is..... etc.... as well as the good moments too....). This helped me stay consistent with myself, with reality, and minimizes the influence of words vs. true actions.....
Hope that helps.... and kudos to you for taking your stand now of not entering a marriage under these circumstances....
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Dear Arty, Thanks for sharing -- your share and lin's touched a chord in me. If I knew 20 years ago what I know now because of al anon ... well, I would have made different choices. And neither I nor my kids would have suffered the pain we have. But I didn't -- didn't know al anon pertained to me, didn't know I belonged here, didn't know how much I needed to grow up. Me grow up? -- why, I'm the responsible one, aren't I already grown up?? Ha!!! I've learned that we are all on different timetables, and I am right where I need to be -- some moments I find that hard to accept, but once I accept it and look to my HP for guidance, the guidance I need comes. It floors me each time it happens; I'm so very grateful. I have found reading the al anon literature and the wisdom from al anon rooms and this board helpful and supportive -- supportive as a framework for living my life. Someone on this Board, or maybe in the MIP chatroom, several months ago quoted from ODAAT March 26th ... I know I repeat it over and over, and I do so because I had been told just the opposite by my alcoholic family members and friends for most of my life. I am so grateful for this program, and for supportive al anon literature like... ...we do have a power...and that is the power to change our own lives. Acceptance does not mean submission to a degrading situation.... And the "Today's Reminder" from March 26th in ODAAT is something I've found helpful also: ....If we accept a situation full of misery and uncertainty, it is no one's fault but our own.... I have found that being responsible for me, learning what boundaries are, and how to set them and how to choose what consequences I will follow through on if my boundaries are not respected -- well, figuring all this out and then doing it is pretty much a full time job for me. It doesn't leave me much time to do someone else's inventory or to try and control them -- which never worked anyway. Took me a huge amount of time to get this point, to even have clue what I should do, and then to figure out how to do it. Learning to recognize chaos and people (including me) who create drama and chaos. Learning detachment was a big one for me, and learning how to say what I mean, but not to say it mean. Learning all these al anon lessons has made me a better person, have a richer life experience, to be the best mom and friend that I can be to those in my life, -- and to attract loving supportive people into my life. Arty, I'm thinking it's likely you are younger than I am by a bit, -- that you figured out to come to these rooms way sooner than I did for myself. You just believe in you ... and keep comin' back. Trust your gut. emma
Hi Arty - Don't feel stupid about where you are. I too am in a should I marry him or not? You are not alone. I keep telling myself that this is going to make me a stronger person - I'm learning how to detach, I'm learning about setting and keeping boundaries, I'm learning what my needs are and how to get them met and I'm learning how to have a spiritual connection and bring peace and happiness to myself. That is a gift that we can use in all areas of our life. We do have choices and when we;re ready our HP will help us make those decisions.
That's what Alanon's about. No one makes a decision for you. A sponsor might tell you to hold off on relationship decisions for a long while, maybe even a year while you work YOUR program. You keep coming back and doing the work of HEALING, and little by little you take the opportunity to grow and heal right where you are. Right where you are.
Because if a decision is made right now, when you don't have enough loving detachment time logged in (hypothetical) to make a WISE decision based on what is good FOR YOU and YOU ALONE, then any decision up, down or sideways will be flawed.
Sometimes what happens if we "dump the jerk" is that we feel like the problem is fixed and we don't think we need Alanon anymore. But it's not! The conditions that drew the A to us are still there, and the Universe WILL find us another A (even worse) so we can continue the healing work that WE need. That's my experience anyway. I have found that the opportunity to heal ME is such a wonderful gift, don't let it pass by. And this site helps so many people, you are really lucky to have found it. I wish I had found it in the beginning of my relationship with my A.
