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I dunno, I never figured it out. I think a large part of it is indeed bs - a way of avoiding things he just doesn't want to face.
Blackouts are real, though, and so is permanent memory loss that persists after the drinking has stopped. My husband has been sober for nearly four years, and is having a lot of trouble dealing with the fact that some brain activity may be gone for good - aging can account for some of his memory loss, but not all, and his doctor confirms this. Just another regret that he will have to find a way of living with...
From your point of view, does it really matter? I don't see how anything can be gained by forcing him to admit that he really DOES remember something that he would rather forget. You can base your actions on what YOU know happened or didn't happen, and if he doesn't remember - well, so what? He is the one who is choosing to drink to blackout stage - if he doesn't like having to deal with the aftermath, he always has the choice of not drinking. You are allowed to deal with reality, even if he doesn't want to. My husband has never once admitted to the way he used to act when he came home plowed, even now. Not my problem - all I have to know is that if it ever happens again, I have decided I will no longer put up with it, and I'm gone.
my daughter was a black out drinker and she says she has a lot of memory loss. now that she is in recovery, she says she is starting to remember some things..
Hi, Food for thought: There's also something called "state dependent learning" where you remember something better when you are in the state in which it was learned... so for example, if you are studying while drinking coffee, you will remember it better with caffeine than without. I think it may apply to drinking as well-- like an A will remember things that happened when drinking better when drinking again.
When I drank? After about 3 to 5 drinks....all the stuff and memories from the past..that I buried deep within..and didnt want to remember...would come to the surface....and I would drink more and more...to get it buried..back down there...
I had blackouts..where there are bits and pieces..that have come back....there are other things that will never come back...
When I was not drinking...there would be walls put up..automatically...where my mind would not let those things from the past..come to the surface...and it took a long time sober...and with steps and councelling before...a lot of it did..
Then..there were the triggers...sober....where someone would trigger a memory....and Ide lash out in anger...and realize afterwards...it was nothing more than buried anger inside...at myself..
soo...in that case....the party that got the brunt of that anger...really had nothing to do with it....They were just there...
So..Ive learned through outside sources...that emotional walls against pain...can be pretty high...until we crack through them..and get into that big pile..inside us..sober..all baggage from the past...
Memory today? Some days its good...somedays bad....a lot of brain cells went down the tube...
Have the best day you can eh...
__________________
Giving to others, from the heart..is what its all about..
I once recorded some music on a tape recorder.. the recording head had gotten loose and was way out of alignment. Crooked actually. The result was, the tape that was recorded that way could only be played back on that machine, if the head was first adjusted back to that skewed position. If the head was adjusted correctly, or the tape was played on a different machine, it was garbled to the point it was useless.
So, maybe alcohol just knocks our heads out of alignment!
Yes, I know about black outs and he is definitely starting to have very real memory lapses. I can see that he is frightened by this.
From my side of things, I've never discussed this with him. It is not something I need to confront him on or make him admit to. But I appreciate what you are saying.
I am just trying to learn how things really are and what is real. It has taken me all this time to realize that a lot of things are simply just because he chooses to drink, and that is all there is to it.
It is not just the bad things that he does this with. It is also the good things, maybe even more the good things than the bad lately.
I guess I was just trying to figure out if this is just his way of dealing with his actions that he doesn't want to face, or a real thing that As go through. When he is in a black out, he usually never remembers any of it ever.
My A's short term memory is just about zapped. The thing that use to bother me was he could recall people we'd casually met eons ago, names, location, etc. I use to think what was so important about that particular event -- I had to give up and say "it is what it is." I've given in to just watching him repeatedly do things that I know he's done before, he just doesn't remember it. I use to try to tell him, but that only irratated him or he'd make excuses. So I just let it be.
The best thing that has helped me with this is learning to accept the answer "I don't know" or "I don't remember." Yes, A's lie, they are manipulative, but when it comes to this -- they are probably telling the truth. There is no use arguing over it. It accomplishes nothing.
We can sit in our own minds and turn this over and over and over -- we get no where. Only way to understand it is to climb into their minds and check it out (which not only is impossible, would scare me to death.)
Thanks so much for all of that! You put much light on a lot of things with your response.
That makes so much sense to me. Esp. about the anger. Sometimes I think he is talking to someone from his past and not me when he gets like that. But generally speaking what you described sounds like what he does.
He also does this with "good" memories too. Can you offer any insight?
I was more so trying to learn the facts about the disease, but I appreciate what you are saying.
He will say something didn't happen or that he never said that, and then as soon as he is drunk he is back to saying the very same things or telling how the very things he previously denied did happen. It is not always angry events...He pretty much does this with anything.
I was just pondering if it is actually a legitimate thing that they go through-I don't know if that is even possible-or simply a behavior. We've rarely argued over it. I generally take it with a grain of salt.
I don't know how that happens with your A. If it happened to mine, he'd never say anythiing. I once read that when an A is drinking, their brain can be so saturated that sometimes it can't register anything so there's no memory to recall. I'd never know with my A anyway. I could tell by the look on his face after he sobered up that he was scared about what he couldn't remember and embarrassed about what he could.......jaja
Not exactly the same, but my A ex repeats himself. Like he'll tell a story about something that happened at work. Then 10 minutes later tell the exact same story almost word for word, and when I'd pull him up on it he *honestly* wouldn't know what I was talking about. He might repeat the story 3 times in half an hour, used to drive me crazy! It was like Groundhog Day.
Or certain stories will come up and they are always the same, like: 'remember that holiday we went on last year...' and the story is *always* the same, but he might embellish it depending on his mood: he'll say 'such-and-such was f'd up' or 'that dog drove me crazy' -things that he'd never said before when sober.
Maybe these apparent 'recollections' your A has that he never said when he was sober are similar, he's just (excuse my French) 'talking s*h*t'.
One time my ex was talking to me in bed after drinking and suddenly started sleep talking (I guess) -it went from normal conversation to: "I was an egg farmer..." (he literally said that!). When I told him in the morning he had no idea what I was talking about.
Yes, we used to have a friend who would do that when drunk - tell the same story as many as six or seven times in an hour, and not notice that he was repeating himself.
One reason that I take some of this talk of memory loss among A's with a grain of salt is that when my husband was drinking very hard, and being quite abusive while drunk, I would try to talk to him about it the next morning - "So, what about what happened last night?". He learned that if he tried to defend his actions, I'd jump on him, and expect something from him - an apology, a promise he wouldn't do it again, whatever. However, if he said "Can't remember anything about last night", I'd say something like "Well, you were a real jerk..." and more or less let it go. Pretty soon, "Can't remember" was the response EVERY time. I don't believe he was getting blackouts every single time he got drunk (every day) - it was just an easier out. Not that I blame him - thinking back on it, I was pretty deep in the throws of my disease back then, too.
I do believe that there is not much point in thinking these thing out too far - it just keeps us focused on them and their drinking, rather than putting our focus where it belongs, on ourselves.
Yes, he has a set of scripts he works from when he is drinking. It is always the same things over and over.
When he does talk in his sleep, he says the most profound things. I've always wanted to record him doing that, because it is like he is a completely different person, and the things he's talking about are incredible.
I hope I'm not thinking about it too much. I've just always wondered and haven't been able to find much info on that aspect of things, and never had anyone to ask before. I've learned to take anything he says lightly.
When he goes into anger mode I very rarely play into it, and as I said, it always seems like he has mistaken me for someone else. The next day if I ask about it, he just tells me not to pay any attention to him when he gets like that, he's a drunk and I didn't do anything. He doesn't deny much about those times at all, even though I'm sure he doesn't remember much, and I seldom bother to mention it to him.
Boy, can I identify with the "script" the A starts in on when he's drinking. The same things over and over. In his sleep, even. The guys at work. How much he hates my cats. I swear if I have to hear about those guys at work one more time....I'm gonna explode. And it is every. single. night. And he will tell about it, and just act like it is the first time he's told it. And act like it is a different gripe he has about someone at work, but it is the SAME THING for several years now. I can hardly stand it. I just smile weakly and nod, with a blank stare. He doesn't even notice my eyes are glazing over......
I can almost tell the stories verbatim, the script is so closely followed. It is amazing. It is so frustrating.....I want to scream...Shut up, already! Geez! You've already told me that story about Doug, Tom, Dick, Harry, several times.......TONIGHT! AGGGGGHHHH! Drives me insane. I swear one of these days, I'm gonna let him have it, and it ain't gonna be pretty! LOL!
As far as memory about when and where things happened, and actual events, his memory is much better than mine. I blame my loss on PTSD, which I have had for many years. I am some better since Alanon, but the memory loss is still there. Short term especially.
