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Just wondering if someone is verbally abusive to you drunk or not, why must we "not say it mean"? Don't you think that sometimes a cold hard word is effective at making someone stop to think? I don't mean just to be hurtful but to say what is true whether it hurts or not. IE I don't like being around you anymore...you'e not a nice person anymore...etc. You know...my feelings about the A or their use of the A or D and how I feel about it. It's mean but sometimes it needs to be said.
Other question...how do I quit throwing things up in his face. The time when you ________. I have had this problem when he says something that is just purely a delusion on his part. Example..... He says in relation to me refusing to help him...."what about all the times when I took care of you and helped you out" After reflecting a moment I realize that in 6 1/2 years of marriage this time has never come and then proceed to say, "Oh like the time I had to go out of town for work and you were supposed to watch the kids" (he got drunk the day I was to go and I had to leave them overnight with a sitter I had just hired earlier that day and then it happened again the next time I went out of town he drank while I was gone leaving my 12 yo to take care off all the kids AND him) "Is that the kind of help you're talking about"?
How can I keep this bitterness from events past from rearing it's ugly head in conversation/arguments but still hold onto it enough to remember why I don't want to go there again?
Speaking how you feel is not being mean. It is how we say things that are mean. Screaming in their face that you dont want to be around them does not work. However, quietly saying that you are not comfortable being with him/her when they drink is another. We can express our feelings to the A's in our lives - they may not want to hear it and accuse us of being mean but if we say it without anger it is not. Just my humble opinion.
Karen
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Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. Love you all!
Karen
I find that when I'm nasty, *I* don't like myself. I still do it all the time, and I feel the consequences. But that's my reason to not be nasty. The other person may not hear it at all, but my own nasty words will ring in my ears the rest of the day.
When someone says something that I don't like I have often used the phrase "You know you just might be right, but I'll have to think about that." It throws them off course in their rage and I don't have guilt feelings about the things I would have said.
As for throwing things up in their face...When I realized and accepted that I was indeed dealing with two people, the A and the son I was able to seperate the two. For instance I know that my son would never say mean things to me let alone rob my house, however, I do know that the A that takes over his body and soul would and did. Throwing something up in his face that he had absolutely no control over is fruitless and a waste of my time and his.
A member at a f2f meeting pointed out that a crisis will only last seven minutes unless it is fed. In other words don't dwell on it and it won't grow out of control. If necessary get an egg timer and set it for seven minutes when things go haywire. Don't dwell on the crisis for seven minutes and it won't be nearly as large as it was when it started. Hard to do but a good exercise.
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Everything I have ever let go of has claw marks all over it.
I have a lot of experience with retaliating in kind unfortunately. I really think my 21 yr old ASon missed his calling to go to law school. He argues both sides of any argument until you are ready to just use Mary Poppins umbrella and wisk yourself away. (Or kick his .... well you know)
After years of "practicing" with him, I can tell you that if he is doing something wrong and I tell him so... and stop. He has nothing to argue about.
If I said it by yelling or using harsh words or along with pounding on something, then he'll argue about why I always do that. Walla, no more talk about what set me to task in the first place.
If I had to guess, between that and I feel like a jackass after they I go nuts.
Take care of you!
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
I had a hard time finding my comfort area of what to say and what not to. There are times I still bring things up from the past even now ... the difference is that now when I say things it is not to contradict my A or to make him feel bad, it is to remind myself why i am making changes for myself. i find my tone and how I say it is different. I can't really explain it, except that it came to me when I had started to accept him as he is and accept that maybe this life is not for me anymore.
When I was using all those things as a way of venting my anger towars him all it seemed to do was make me feel bad and make our situations worse. Feeling good and living in relative peace just became more important.
There are always times I need to stand up for myself, it's a learning process.
I have found in my life that I have never regretted taking the high road. Not only am I able to look back at the incident without regret for my own actions, but I'm not giving the A a handle to distract us from the main point. A's are masters at twisting things, and the less ammunition we give them, the better.
I remember my husband used to scream abuse at me, for hours sometimes. He would seem to be completely out of control, insane with fury. Yet, when, after hours of this, *I* lost control, and started screaming back, then he would calm right down and almost seem sober. It was like he needed to bring me down to his level in order to feel good about himself. This happened over and over again, until finally I caught on, and really would make an effort not to "snap" and start acting crazy. It was almost like my snapping was justification for everythng he did - "See, that's why I drink so much, that's why I get out of control - I'm married to such a bitch".
As for the dragging up the past - the only person hurt by you holding on to that stuff is you. We don't forgive for THEIR sakes, but for our own.
We don't. We choose to be whatever and however we are. Certianly in the moment if someone is yelling, throwing things, being completely irrational I often want to retaliate in kind. I don't.
Why not? Because no matter what happens in this world all I have is me. I need to answer to me before I go to sleep and when I wake up. Relationships end, children grow and leave, I am left always with me and I want to be able to look in the mirror and truly like the womyn I see.
as always
take what ya like and leave the rest
in alanon
lilms
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Two things: 1. Recovery is a process, not an event.....and.... 2. You only get to go around once. Leave em laughing and make it worth your while
I have done the "mean thingy" in the beginning before recovery. Before I realized I am important my motives at the time were not out of love and were coming across ugly and mean. I have done the "nice thingy" after joining recovery. I tried working threw it with a possitive attitude. Then I realized "doesn't matter what I say or what I do in the end he is the one that is going to have to figure it out."
I am learning I can't fix the whole world (like I have the tendency to try to do) all I can do is fix one person me. I pray for my A daily and hope for a better life for him and his son. Both of whom I love very much. For me I have done it both ways and for the first time in a LONG time I know sanity and serenity this is the only way I have found it so far.
I think the "nice" thing gets fed to girls to "be a lady." And personally, I think it's crap. But since I can't fix society--merely my corner of it--here's how **I** apply say what you mean, mean what you say, but it's not necessary to say it mean.
When my father tries his cock and crap stuff I simply say "Dad, I cannot do X, Y, and/or Z. I have other commitments. I'm sorry you were depending on me to fufill your needs. But I am not responsible to do X, Y, and/or Z. "
When my un treated al anon mother tries to manipulate me into feeling guilty about doing, or not, X, Y, Z, I say "What I'm hearing you say is...", "What I think you're saying is..." "I understand that you're saying....and I feel...." "Mom, when you say X/Y/Z, I feel..." "Mom, when you do X/Y/Z, I feel..."
A last word about "turning the other cheek:" I gave up the idea of "being a good christian" long ago. The healing is in the feeling. I remember the day I was in my therapists office and got REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY pissed off at my mother. I screamed and hollered so loud I shook the window panes in her windows. And the result? I felt released! The anger that had held me hostage toward that woman--that had defended the alcholism in my home--was gone! and I was able to move on!!
Have you made up a God box yet? It's literally a box where you put all the "stuff" you've done the best you can on and you give it to god--bills, children, friends, character defects. I wrote letters and tossed'em in there too. Gave'em to god. No one is ever allowed in there. It's MY space. Me and god.
I wonder the same thing carolinagirl. Why should I be "nice" in the face of unkindness? Finally I decided to have no conversation with the A when he is drinking. Oh, he'll say something like, "Not talking to me huh?" My answer? "I'll talk to you when you are sober." Throwing up things in his face? Don't do that. Think about how you feel if it is done to you. It makes the anger in you rise, doesn't it? Try to keep that reaction of your anger in check. It serves no purpose other than to inflame an already bad situation.
' "You know you just might be right, but I'll have to think about that." It throws them off course in their rage and I don't have guilt feelings about the things I would have said.' A good come-back to remember. Thanks for that one Mobirdie!!
Best to you carolinagirl, Diva
-- Edited by Diva at 12:10, 2006-10-12
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
