Hi Linda

((((((((((Linda))))))))))))))

After raising a daughter to adulthood with my alcoholic I can tell you that teenage angst, hormones, and rebellion aren't a good mix with an alcoholic Dad.

What I did was crack down even harder!  I did not tolerate that talking to me the same way my alcoholic did from her.  NO WAY!  I would tell her that she simply can't talk to me that way, I knew that Dad did it, but he was sick and he was not earning any bonus points with me for that, LOL.  I told her that I expected our relationship to last a lot longer than his and mine would, so we had to be kind to each other.

Whenever I saw the tiniest bit of him rubbing off on her I cracked down HARD.  My alcoholic used to make stupid remarks while shopping and make terrible scenes in the store.  He would look at the cart, filled with things like onions, garlic, potatoes, etc. for cooking dinner for EVERYONE and then make a crack that I "can pay for it myself since nothing in the cart was really for him".  SIGH.  I would say nothing, just walk out of the store.  He would scream that I had to justify everythingin the cart, if I expected him to buy it.  I was working back then so I would just shop for myself another day.  I would cook and shop for only me and daughter only if he would not.  This period did not last long, LOL.  He still complains but not to this extent.

One day my daughter pulled that stunt.  We were shopping and I asked her to help bag the groceries and put them in the car.  She went to sit with the alcoholic in the car claiming "that was YOUR idea to buy that stuff, nothing in those bags is for me so YOU do it yourself".  Funny...it always seems to be their idea to EAT the stuff I buy and cook!  It is two years later and she is still paying for that remark!  From then on I rarely buy any special foods she asks for.  I tell her that I provide healthy food and if she does not like it that is too bad.  I also buy NOTHING for her if she does not come and do most of the work, no bread for the lunches she packs, no apples (I don't really like them) she likes...just the bananas that I like that I do share with her if she wanted them...LOL.  I make her do the bagging and carrying 99.9% of the time.  I explained to her why I am doing this, and it seems to have gotten through.

I have found that it is OK to be strict and have high standards if it is done with a lot of love.  You can't only spend time with your children when you are laying down the law to them. 

Since I clamped down so hard that is the only time she has ever dared pull an "alcoholic" on me, as in treat me or talk to me in the disrespectful way he does.

My advice would be to take him out to dinner and in a calm and loving way explain to him that he has had modeled for him a totally innappropriate way to talk to and treat family members.  Dad did that because he was sick, or a jerk, however honest you want to be, LOL.  Then say that now that he is gone it is time to once again LEARN appropriate ways to deal with family members.  Then outline the the behaviors you expect from him and  the consequences if he does not do it.

You have to be pretty creative to discipline a late stage teen.  What I do is just cut off any special treatment.  I take no consideration when buying or preparing meals for her.  I buy what I like only, and may even lean towards foods which my daughter does NOT like.  These foods are wholesome and nutritiuos so I don't think it is wrong in anyway.  I don't purchase any clothing for her that she does not need, and when she does absolutely need something I shop at the cheapest store.  If you let your son drive your car, don't let him drive it anymore until he treats and talks to you with respect.

I tell my daughter to look at her alcoholic Dad and his life...does she want that for herself?  If she does not she needs to not act like he does, in a way that makes people not like to be around her.

I hope things get better with your son.  This is something that will probably get worse as he gets older if you don't set some ground rules now.

Isabela

((((Sandie123))))

I can so relate to this.  For years, my oldest and I were at odds with each other.  This was before I came to Al-Anon and to be honest, before I realized he acturally had a drinking problem.

Now, I understand that your son is not drinking, but my youngest son started doing the same thing.  Thank God he waited until I had started this program to really do it.

The difference it makes to be calm and state that is not ok and walk away can not be measured.  Even my 11 year old responds to it.

*** Edit - You mention being tolarant... I don't believe you have to be tolarant of any behavior you don't approve of from your kids.  Being loving doesn't mean being a doormat. 

What I found is that my son's both counted on the fact that I would loose my cool.  That way they could say whatever they wanted and still say "I" was the bad guy because of what I said in anger.  Well, I don't give them that crutch any more and they are both responding. 

Now don't get me wrong... they still do it from time to time, and I expect they will have real issues if they have to deal with our seperation (which is looming in the distance between my AW and I), but I now have the insight that if handled in a detatched manner using the facts, they will get over it and may even come to understand why what happened was wrong.

Be gentle with yourself, knowing the right thing to do and being able to act on that through practice takes time.  I still fall back into old patterns if I am not careful. 

Take care of you!