The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
for your kind and loving responses to my two posts. I feel so very loved and appreciated here, and that's worth a fortune!!
Day three, and I believe he is still drunk. I had to leave the house at 6:30 a.m. today, as I was summoned for jury duty, and I live quite a way from the County Courthouse. Didn't get on a jury...darn...but just got home and he is in the bed looking smashed. He was sick all night last night, and swore, "No more. It isn't worth it." I have heard that song before...I have left him alone. If he IS drunk, he can be so by himself.
Love to all, Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Every time I said "no more" and "never again" I was really saying "I can't take it anymore THIS time." If that's where you're at, that's okay. I think it's important for each of us to know when we're "done."
One of the best things I've learned how to do when I've reached my "done" point is to do good things for myself. I've finally discovered why it is the valley girls love the salon: you're paying people to treat you like a queen! So I would pay these people to do my hair, eyebrows, mustache ( ;) ) and maincure. And I would come out feeling like a million bucks (okay, it cose $75.) Nothing could bring me down,and those inner feelings radiate.
Now, if you dont have a spare $75, maybe you could go see a movie, buy yourself a new pair of jeans. Heck, buy a new elmo doll at Toy's R Us! But do something nice for you!
Diva: Good for you for taking care of you. I am happy for you. I wish I could leave the A alone when he was drunk. I think he is on some substance because he looks grey, 90 and aged. He is having huge physcial issues with fatigue, bad back and more. I no longer nurse him or say anything to him. I just get on with my issues. He puts on a great great show of how hard it is for him shame he forgets about hard it is for me to live around him. I also noted that whenever I have been ill (which thankfully has not been lately) I have received nada. I know in the past I felt I wanted to "give" to be human but now I feel I want reciprocity not to be a door mat.
When I feel at my worst, when I am the most confused and upset I can always come here. You are a big part of the reason for that. I am glad you got comfort when you needed it.
You are still in my prayers. Us "Texans" have to stick together.
Take care of you!
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
Well, kiddies, he is NOT drunk. Just sick as he can be...Why is it I get some perverse joy out of that? I do. Hee hee hee...
When he drinks, he does not remember anything that was said. So it is easy for him to say, "Don't pay any attention to that. It was the liquor talking." Then, he gets himself up and going again, and all's well...without another thought about my shattered feelings. I resent the heck out of that.
OK, so it's a sickness. I still cannot understand how a person can be sober and make a conscious choice to go buy a bottle of liquor and drink it all in just a little bit of time, knowing they will be sick and miserable for several days after. It is simply beyond my comprehension. When I ask him about this, his answer is always the same. "I don't know." SUch is life.
It is also easy to say, "It's a disease." A person with cancer, TB, HIV, or any other disease does NOT go out trying to find more deadly cells to infect himself with.
*shaking head and rolling eyes*
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
So when are you coming back to NY? Wanna come see the snow?
Hubby has been having thoughts of drinking. But he knows now, what he didn't know then: it's a choice of drinking and dying or not and living. So there really is no choice for him. He loves life too much. My hope for you partner is that he will find that moment.
My hope and prayers for you, as always is much love, happiness, health, humor and fun as you can possibly stand.
Love and blessings to you and your critters.
Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
Diva, he's not feeling to well huh? Poor baby!! lol I know whatcha mean!
As to the person with cancer, etc.. not going out to find more deadly cells to infect themself with...you know that for me is exactly it! I cant tell you it is not a conscious choice the alcoholic makes not to take that first drink again. I can tell you my ex wife was so very bewildered herself..each time she went on a binge. She knew the damage it was doing to everyone and mostly herself. Why in the hell would she, if she were sane, if she were able to control it... put herself through it again. I think his answer of "I don't know" while it is so exasperating to us, is just the plain truth. He has no program, he has not admitted his powerlessness deep down inside of himself.
I know that "they" sometimes might use that "it's a disease" thing to try to excuse bad behavior or whatever! But, its not truth. They are still in denial. They still have not surrendered!
I will shake my head and roll my eyes right along side of you Diva, because it seems so surreal to me, because I dont have the problem. If ya ask me thought, and you didn't ,, he he he...and of course this is just my humble opinion and sheese I am not defending him okay! LOL
But you seem like a wonderful, beautiful person Diva. Why in the hell would this man you describe so often, the one you love...jeopardize his relationship with you for a freakin feast on a bottle (oh! and a half) of freakin sherry for pete's sake! It IS insanity. And therein lies the rub.....
And none of this is about us! We are not the reason they drink! And we can not be the reason they don't drink either. Because as much as we hate it, we are not enough...we are not more powerful than the disease, compulsion, addiction..whatever you want to name it! They have to want to stop, for themselves.
I think David's post affected me a lot. Why would the A jepardise so much in the name of his disease. My A has access to services, he is a veteran. He can access any number of counselling, detox services and more. He doesn't want to.
The issue for me is that I do not want to be destroyed along with is drug taking and risk taking and crazy behavior. The choice for me is obvious but getting out is such a lot of work.
I am these days in so so much pain I am prepared to do the work but I resent having to do it. I have to get to the place of acceptance to seeing that he is an alcoholic and I am powerless over it. Resenting him does not make sense he is sick, he chooses not to get help and I can see how much denial he is in. Why waste time on resentment. Some relationships work out, others don't. He is just one that didn't work out.
It is also easy to say, "It's a disease." A person with cancer, TB, HIV, or any other disease does NOT go out trying to find more deadly cells to infect himself with.
*shaking head and rolling eyes*
Diva
Hey Diva!
((((((((((((((Diva)))))))))))))))
Oh I SO relate to this! I was so stumped by this thinking that I actually went to see a psychologist MYSELF who specialized in addiction to try and understand.
The first time my husband wet the bed I was horrified! The next morning I asked him "How can a dignified and educated adult such as yourself wet the bed and think it is OK?". His answer was "YEAH I wet the bed...and I am going to keep drinking too!".
I just could not make sense out of that. How can a man so clean in his habits and so fastidious in his personal hygeine tolerate wetting the bed as a normal part of his life?
I told the psychologist that my husband seemed to wet the bed with pride and joy and I thought he was really crazy.
The psychologist asked me..."Do you think when your husband was a child and dreaming of his future that he really dreamed of wetting the bed? Do you really believe that this hard working man who put himself through college through hard work, genius, and determination became a college instructor in his twenties and was also a star college athlete really thinks it is Ok that he wet the bed...does that make sense to you?". I agreed that it did not make sense at all. That is when I really started to see that it is a real sickness.
Oh, not the sickness that "they" think it is, some sort of "free pass" to not take responsibility for their actions, but something much deeper, more of a mental sickness in their brain.
Over time I discovered that my husband was deeply ashamed of wetting the bed, but did not know how to explain himself to me, how he is just defective mentally and continues to engage in an activity that is destroying him and my view of him, yet can't stop. Since he had no answer himself, he just put on a false sense of bravado about it...rather than admit his shame to not be able to care enough about himself to stop. He cleaned up very well afterwards, bleaching the sheets and everything...like that should make it OK to me.
He worked and worked at drinking enough to be "happy" but no longer wet the bed and he finally achieved that. He has not wet the bed or wet himself in about 5 years and this is a big step as he used to have such a problem that he had to buy a new mattress. So, they DO have some control...when you give them really firm boundaries. I raised such a fuss about his wetting the bed that I think it was GOOD for him. I refused to be a partner is his sick thinking that this was "OK" and "acceptable" it is NOT! It IS shocking...and I am glad I was the healthy mirror he needed to realize that and take steps to remedy it.
My husband is more verbal and communicative and just plainly tells me that life is not worth living without the joy that drinking alcohol brings him and it is OK if it takes years off of him, as the few years he has will be happy years. He then told me that if I can't accept that I know where the door is...
After 13 years of study and research (for a few years of that I was actually pursuing a MS in psychology to drop out in my last year), and consulting with professionals I can see what a complex mental illness addiction really is. People don't seem to understand that it really is a form of mental illness to cotinually do something that is so self destructive DESPITE harsh consequences. When I see my husband habitually drink and drive knowing the years and years of hard work it has taken him to rise to rank of college "PROFESSOR" rather than simply college "instructor" and the thousands of dollars in additional education he has had to earn just to risk it on a 5 minute ride to a store to buy more beer it really hits home what a severe mental illness this REALLY is.
It seems to be a form of deep and chronic depression, that indifference to their future health and happiness. They don't see tomorrow...only can see today..and cling desperately to whatever chemical substance they need to get through today.
I however don't believe that it is a "moral" or "spiritual" sickness. I think it is purely mental and physical. People don't get physically addicted to alcohol because they lack morals or spirituality, they are driven to OVERINDULGE in it due to their mental problems then their body gets addicted and it becomes a two fold problem.
This is something I often wonder about. My husband is actually a very spiritual person, alcohol being his only vice. He is moral, hard working, responsible, honest, and dependable and reads the bible daily and really tries to live it in his life. He prays and really strives to follow bible principles in his daily affairs. Once a clerk overpaid him in change and he did not discover it until the got into the car. He tried to run back into the store but it was closed. He drove back to the store...WAY out of his way...the next day and kept the reciept with the cashiers name so that he would not be docked or falsely accused of stealing. When my husband is so careful about money this is really eye opening about how sincere he is about his spirituality.
He says that drinking alcohol is encouraged in the bible...sigh...but like most addicts carefully avoids the scriptures were it cautions not to overdo it! But he truly believes that it is OK and that he does not overdo it...that is his addiction talking there.
I don't think it is a "disease" but a chronic MENTAL problem that is very complex, deep seated, and difficult to treat. Most people think mental illness means "crazy" as in they can't function. But there is a spectrum of mental illness just as there is a spectrum of physical illness. You can have something as mild as athletes foot and still function fine, or ebola which will knock you flat until it kills you. The same with mentall illness, there are the more subtle mental illnesses which are not apparant to the averag person, such as addiction and depression, then you have the opposite end of the spectrum where people need to be hospitalized permanantly. So I am not saying my husband is crazy in the classic sense...but there is something wrong for him to continually engage in such seriously self destructive behavior despite such serious consequences.
There are some people who don't fight physical illness, they get cancer and don't seek treatment, or don't cooperate and simply seek an end to their misery. Most doctors don't see such behavior as normal and DO seek to diagnose the "mental illness" such as deep and chronic depression that causes that abnormal behavior and seek to treat it! Is there a cancer anonymous for those who get cancer and chose not to fight it and want to die? For those who get lung cancer from smoking and keep smoking? Most people dont' choose cancer (although some of them sort of do...like smokers) just like most people feel taht people don't "choose" to be an alcoholic. I don't think people specifically choose to be an alcholic, that just happens to be the method they find they like to deal with their mental problems.
I don't know if this helps you, but I just thought I would share my experiencing these same emotions as you trying to understand and to the knowledge that it led me to.
((((((((((((((((Diva)))))))))))))))) I also relate to you taking just a teeny tiny bit of pleasure at his discomfort, LOL. Boy have I been there! We are only human after all...
I am glad you got comfort when you needed it. 
moment.