The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
After all the recommendations for reading "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews, I finally ordered it and read it completely through. I was expecting so much and must say that I was very disappointed. I found the advice typical but somehow it felt demeaning to spouses. Not being a spouse of an A but a mother, perhaps that was the reason. I won't buy the other volumes. I also ordered "Under the Influence: A Guide to the Myths and Realities of Alcoholism" by James R Milam, Ph.D. and Katherine Ketcham. It was extremely scarey but extremely enlightening. He highly recommends AA but not as the entering treatment. He also recommended AlAnon as a wonderful support. But his basic premise is that the disease is physiological and that most alcoholics are told their problems are psychological and emotional. The physiological descriptions he gives are very eye-opening; he also maintains that nutrition therapy is an absolute must. He just makes such sense and his research is thorough I thought. The philosophy of allowing the alcoholic to "hit bottom" is refuted; Milam also says that someone, and family members were included here, must step in and force the alcoholic into treatment. His reasoning is that left untreated, death is certain eventually...one way or another with suicide being a huge possiblity, accidents another, and finally just organ failure. The third book I bought is "Sober for Good: New Solutions for Drinking Problems--Advice fromThose Who Have Succeeded" by Anne M. Fletcher. I haven't started it yet. I fully realize that just like this site, these books are opinion. BUT I am a strong believer in research and data and Milam's book gave so much of that. I am not sure what this reading will provide for me, but at least I am following my philosophy of educating myself in all ways possible.
I agree with you that research is everything. I believe that the disease of alcoholism is my enemy and no matter what, the more you know about your enemy the better.
Over the years I have read more books on the subject than I can count. Many are pro AA, some are completely against. Some view alcoholism as a physical disease, some a psychological and some not a disease at all.
Nothing is written in stone, hence the saying "take what you like adn leave the rest." I think something can possibly be learned from all of them. I found co-dependant no more to be very helpful. I did find getting them sober to be good as well as the battle of the booze and marriage on the rocks. I have also read books on rapid recovery and many more.
There are some steps in AA (Alanon as well), but over the years I have tailored my program to my needs.
My opinion is if you like to read, to read everything you can get your hands on. Wether the book is good or bad, right or wrong, there might be one piece of information that jumps out at you, and can help you. The simple fact is that whether the family intervenes or not, until the A is ready, nothing can help them. All you cna do is look for information to help you learn to live with this disease, and to prepare you for if ever the day comes that they do want help, to possibly have the tools to offer support.
It has been awhile since I perused this book. And I must say that I do hear/see it mentioned here often. Just a quick thought comes to mind, when suggesting this book to a newcomer and that is... if the newcomer does not actually have the book to read, is new to the program, isn't is an oxymoron to tell the newcomer the 3c's and then also suggest a book entitled "Getting them Sober" as though we have control over that.
I like to read but I also know that I need to educate myself about alcoholism, dry drunk syndrome, codependency, love addiction, and everything else. I have many, many books and will get some more. I am learning that I need to understand and not keep asking "why". I also need to understand myself and what I need to do in recovery.
I live in an area where the alcoholics hang out behind the grocery store. I don't like it when they approach me for money. But I often wonder if they could be helped from a physiological standpoint. Have you heard of Joe and Charlie and the Big Book tapes/cassettes? They are members of AA who give a presentation on the entire Big Book. In their older tapes, they talk about the cravings of an alcoholic and the differences of the chemical breakdown of alcohol in the body (alcoholic vs non-alcoholic). They discuss the doctor's opinion's in foreword about having an allergy to alcohol. They also discount the effectiveness of will power saying that alcoholics need spiritual help ie belief in an HP.
I'm sorry you found the "Getting Them Sober" book disappointing. I didn't find the book to be demeaning at all...in fact, just the opposite. I also have read a lot of books about alcoholism...and have to say, for me..."Getting Them Sober", and "Co-dependant No More" saved my sanity.
As long as each of us finds our own way to recovery/sanity...I don't think the 'how' matters.
They also discount the effectiveness of will power saying that alcoholics need spiritual help ie belief in an HP.
Nancy
HMMMMM......
What if the alcoholic ALREADY HAS THAT ("belief in an HP")?
This is something I have been wondering about for some time. What if the alcoholic is already a very spiritual person, just one who suffers from addiction?
Alcohol addiction IS a both a psychological and physical condition, not really a "lack of religion" OR "spirituality" (as some like to call it) problem. In fact there is MUCH debate about which is primary, a physical condition, or psychological that drives people to drink to excess. The jury is still out on that one, just as many addiction specialists, psychologists, and physicians seem to think one is the primary problem as ones who think the other is more of a concern.
My husband is a very spiritual person in all senses of the word, he walks the walk and to be honest, seldom talks the talk. His whole life is based around his spirituality. He has a very firm and deep belief in a HP that he has a close relationship with, this does not seem to have helped his PHYSICAL addiction though.
I guess it is that spirituality which keeps him from being totally engulfed by his disease though, he still works and pays all of the bills and works out and eats very nutritiously and showers daily.
The twelve steps are principles he lives by naturally, really, as they are in harmony with his spiritual beliefs. Even making amends. He is in no type of recovery program, never has been, yet out of sense of spirituality diligently makes amends wherever he can. One day he had a black out and was acting crazy and throwing stuff from the counter ontot he floor. The next day he cleaned it all up and scrubbed the counter until it shone and more than made up for what he did. Whatever he has done due to his drinking he has made amends for.
He has bought new all furniture he has peed on and has been careful not to drink so much that he pees on any of the new stuff. This was no small feat, money is in short supply. He worked two extra jobs for two years to buy a new sofa, bed, mattress, and fridge (yes he peed in the fridge too, sigh). He was motivated to make these amends by his spiritual beliefs.
He is also very ready to say he is sorry. Even I am amazed at his efforts to not only SAY he is sorry...but show it. Only a truly spiritual person could be so humble and sincere.
He suffers from a mental illness and the doctor says he is drinking to self medicate.
I used to really really push AA thinking it would help him but now I am not so sure.
What good does AA really do to an already spiritual person who really suffers from a PHYSICAL ailment? His altered brain chemistry from his mental illness that pushes him to drink has a physical origin, his brain makes the chemicals that controls it.
Niether his primary physician nor his therapist (that he only saw once for marital counseling) think that the answer for him is AA and they both believe in AA. They both think that he should be on medication for his mental illness and then he should be fine considering how he already has such a strong sense of spirituality and is so high functioning.
This is something that has really been confusing me lately...is AA really for already spiritual people suffering from a physical ailment? None of the founding members of AA seemed to have any sort of spirituality before AA, and they felt that THAT was the root of their problem.
Isabela
PS...I can honestly say that my husband lives the 12 steps daily since no where in the 12 steps does it say not to drink or to abstain from alcohol. Am I the ONLY one who has ever noticed that?
BeBlessed, nutrition therapy is more than eating well. Milam maintains that alcohol IS food for the alcoholic. Thus, the A does not eat when he/she can drink. Alcohol serves the purpose but does not nuture. The author says that the medical profession is not trained nor do they make much effort to deal with this aspect of alcoholism. He says that treatment of at least 4 weeks in an in-treatment facility should be the beginning. With detox should come nutritional food choices, vitamin and mineral supplements, and especially treatment for hypoglycemia which is almost always present in the alcoholic. (on p 153 in his book from my original post, he states: "Hypoglycemia sparks even more controversy in the medical profession...in the 70's this condition became an epidemic....lots of people diagnoses themselves with the condition..many physicians have gone to the other extreme, claiming tht hypglycemia is actually a rare condition and that many people saying they have it are suffering from purely psychological problems" This book address the nutrition problem extensively. I guess being a firm believer in the importance of good nutrition I tend to side with this author's opinions. His recommendation for AA is that it is the number one program for maintaining sobriety. But physical intervention is necessary first for sobriety to begin.
Sorry you were disappointed in the book. Maybe it is geared more to spouses of A's. I know that the book opened my eyes, and gave me the spine I lacked to stand my ground, and stand up for myself. It drove home the point for me, the 3 C's. I did not find it demeaning at all. At the time I read it, however, I was literally so demeaning to myself. I had no self worth, or not much, anyway. I had a hard time telling my AH what I felt, what I needed, etc. Now, I know that a lot of times, I may as well go talk to the tree out in the yard....but the funny thing is, he has started to listen to me. I told him last week matter of factly, that I was sick of hearing him whine about how bad his life is, that he can change it if he doesn't like it. And I told him I wasn't listening to him whine anymore that night, and he shut up! A miracle.
I wish you all the best in continuing your own recovery. Toby Rice Drews is not the only author I have read. I love to read, and have read everything I can on alcoholism. I think it takes a combination of ideas, thoughts, research, to begin to heal. I am sure that being a mother of an A is very different from being a spouse. After all, you have known your child all of his or her life. And, there's that mother/child bond that to me surpasses anything else. I only have one child, but she is my heart, my soul, and she's grown up and 30 years old!
Glad you are here. I use this board, I get in the chatroom when I can, attend online meetings when hubby is not at home, occasionally go to face to face meetings. I also have a therapist, who urged me to go to Alanon. I have read until my eyeballs are ready to fall out. This is how I personally work my recovery. All the attention I used to focus on the drinking is now focused on me (well, most of the time!) And boy, am I busy!
What is nutition therapy all about? Is it just about eating healthy or is there more to it?