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Hi group.... I get nervous, really nervous, when I see so many posts about alternative ways for people to gain sobriety... Yes, there are other ways, and yes, there are small percentages of people who are living testaments to those other ways.... Here is something I cut and pasted from Toby Rice Drews, the author of the "Getting Them Sober" series of books...
"The recovery rate for people who go to AA and stay in AA the rest of their lives is very good. According to AA itself (from a report in the back of the AA "Grapevine" magazine several years ago) the statistics went like this: 50% of the people who go to AA stay sober from day one; out of the remaining 50%, half of them had relapses and then came back and stayed sober, and the other half of them never made it. So, 75% of people stay sober if they go to AA. That's higher, much much higher, than any other form of treatment. So it's sort of playing Russian roulette to try doing it without AA."
Now, statistics in recovery circles are understandably tough to come by, but I truly hate to see people spending too much time and effort on the peripheral recovery strategies that have very low success rates. My primary concern here is that, by in effect "advertising" some of these other options, more people will die, and many more will stay sick and in trouble for longer. I use the weight control analogy.... Yes, there are other ways to lose weight, but "diet and exercise" is the tried and true way, and the results speak for themselves....
I think... as Al-Anons, as A's, and basically as human beings..... we are always looking for the 'silver bullet' quick fix option....
I am NOT a professional in this field, nor are most of us who post here. I just felt the need to post this today. AA is not the "only" way, but it is certainly the one with the best track record.
Take care
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Thanks for posting that. There are 2 very seperate issues in my mind. Sobriety is but a step in managing the disease. What I see is that the A's in my life, active and sober have learned a new way of life, as have we all. It is the way of the disease.
Sobriety in and of itself is a huge step, but the disease is in the thinking and actions of the A and all of us around them.
My Uncle found sobriety and stayed active in AA until his death. He enjoyed the fellowship, and was a wonderful speaker. He made a difference in many lives. He never really rebounded from the diseased thinking and actions outside of those meetings. Didn't want to.
My father found sobriety and never attended AA, and the disease does not have as great a hold on him. But it took 25 years and outliving his parents and his brothers to see some simple truths.
To me I see that sobriety stops the progression, however they get it .... great. My AW was mad at me the other day and spewed "... I guess you would be happy and everything would be ok around here if I went to rehab... " I had to tell her I have no idea. I think it would be a wonderful step for her health, but will it make ours a happy home? No clue.
This program is working for me because I was not just desperate... but desperate for change. Until any person is ready for that, I don't think that will happen. So I agree with what is written about the success rates in AA. I think 75 out of 100 people in the program really want their lives to be different and they work at it.
So... until then all I can do is work on me.
Take care of you!
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
Hi Tom, and thanks for your post this morning. I have certainly thought, and perhaps have said that AA might not be the only path to sobriety. I say that because I remain convinced that addiction can be handled "cold turkey" by a person who is strong enough to tough it out and has a will of steel to make it so. Dying in the process aside.
Now, let's turn the coin over. Those people are few and far between. and you speak correctly when you say that AA has the best track record, so it is difficult to argue with success. AA has saved countless thousands. It is simply that sometimes a give-and-take discussion mentions alternatives. I suppose as one who is, and always has been a tee totaler, it is easier for me to simplyfy what for some is a life-long devastating addiction.
I, as always, send you my very best wishes, Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I wonder if it is because most of the people I know in AA have tried all of the other "ways" to stop drinking?? Many of my dear friends share how they tried all the magic ways to halt their disease, church, family, relationships, pills, etc. only when they reach that utter surrender to a deathly bottom did they finally given in and give up to the God of their understanding and walk in to the rooms of AA and become willing to go to any lengths to achieve sobriety, serenity and sanity.
Cunning, baffling and powerful - the disease of alcoholism - and yet even knowing this some of these dear friends who have already tried all of those other ways still walk away from the AA program - cunning, baffling and powerful - or simply said by a wise alateen speaker "alcoholism sucks"
Yeah, that pretty well says it all - "Alcoholism Sucks" - no matter what the statistics say,
Sorry to be a little down - our group, (my AA & Al-Anon friends) have suffered relapses lately,
Just makes me sad,
Hopefully they'll make it back,
Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
Thanks for the replies.... I know there are some successes with other programs, cold turkey, etc., but I definitely believe in the program of AA. A wise oldtimer in the program said to me once:
"the disease wants people not to go to AA, cuz then it has a chance to win"
Take care
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
"The recovery rate for people who go to AA and stay in AA the rest of their lives is very good. According to AA itself (from a report in the back of the AA "Grapevine" magazine several years ago) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not knocking anything about AA but would like to point out that those percentages are ONLY for AA and did not include other programs as a whole.
The same with the diet thing, diet and exercise work, but what will be best? Jenny Craig or Weight Watchers? It's a personal choice.
Each person as an individual has to find their own path to sobriety. AA can work for those who wish to go that route.
That being said, any recovery program will claim theirs is the way. It took me 2 seconds to find this on the internet:
# 45% of the people who attend Alcoholics Anonymous meetings never return after their first meeting. # 95% never return after the first year. # Based on Alcoholics Anonymous World Services' own statistics Alcoholics Anonymous has only a 5% retention rate. # Those who leave AA look elsewhere, such as conventional alcohol and drug treatment for solutions, but 97% of conventional drug rehabs and alcohol treatment centers are 12 step based, thus individuals essentially rejoin AA.
So, considering the last line, it is essentially the 12 Steps that are helpful and AA based, yet different programs may work better for different individuals.
My husband is one that has recovery w/o AA. Personally, I don't care how he does it, I'm just very grateful that he did and is recovering. It would not have been my place to tell him how to recover anyway. Nor could I have made him go to any particular place to do so. He has to find his own path.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
FIRST OFF-LET ME SAY THAT THE FIGURES THAT CHRISTY QUOTED ARE THE FIGURES THAT I HAVE READ AS FAR AS RETENTION RATE AND SUCH...SO THE OVERALL SUCCESS RATE FOR AA IS 50-75% OF THE 5% WHO WERE ABLE TO STAY IN THE PROGRAM...
AA IS A FANTASTIC STARTING PLACE FOR THE SIMPLE REASONS THAT IT'S FREE AND IT CAN BEGIN THE PROCESS
THE CATCH PHRASE THAT THE AA PUBLICATION USES THAT I BELIEVE TOTALLY SKEWS THE NUMBERS IS THE PART WHERE IT SAYS AA MEMBERS THAT SPEND THEIR ENTIRE LIFE IN THE PROGRAM---THIS NUMBER IS VERY VERY LOW---WHAT AA IS SAYING IS THAT 50% TO 75% OF LIFELONG MEMBERS FIND TOTAL SOBRIETY
IN THE BIG PICTURE OF PLAYING WITH NUMBERS---IF SUCCESS IS MEASURED AS ONE YEAR OF SOBRIETY--- THAN AA'S RECORD IS 7%-10% SUCCESS RATE OR REVERSING THE NUMBERS-90-93% FAIL RATE
"THEY" SAY THAT COLD TURKEY SUCCESS RATE IS ROUGHLY 7%
IN MY OPINION--AA IS A NECESSARY STARTING POINT-BUT IF IT DOESN'T ADDRESS THE DEPRESSION-SELF ESTEEM OR SOCIAL COPING PROBLEMS--THAN I BELIEVE OUTSIDE THERAPY IS ALSO NEEDED ALONG WITH AA...THE WORD ANONYMOUS IN AA SERVES A PURPOSE--BUT I BELIEVE THAT EVENTUALLY THE WORD "INDIVIDUAL" HAS TO ENTER INTO THE GAME TO GIVE THE PERSON SPECIAL CARE...
THE BOTTOM LINE IS-IN MY OPINION--THE INDIVIDUAL HAS TO GIVE IN TO THE HEALING PROCESS NO MATTER WHAT THE NAME OF THAT PROCESS IS---IF THERE WAS A PROGRAM CALLED "FRED'S HOUSE OF DUI'S"-IF IT WORKED FOR SOMEONE THAN BY ALL MEANS---GO...
ONE PERSON FINDING "THE WAY" IS ENOUGH FOR SOME FOLKS TO AT LEAST HAVE HOPE FOR SURVIVAL --AA IS AT LEAST THE FIRST AND SOMETIMES THE ONLY STEP NEEDED...
FROM MY RELATIVELY SHORT TIME READING THE POSTS ON THIS SIGHT---I WOULD SAY THAT BOTH AA AND AL-ANON COULD BOTH BE LIFELONG COMMITMENTS...
GOOD LUCK TO ALL WHO ARE DEALING WITH THESE ISSUES
As long as YOU believe and to every alcoholic in the 12step recovery program of AA, "As long as You are honest and are willing..." Yes there are other programs but rare are those where a recovering alcoholic is helping another alcoholic to get and stay sober and in the process staying sober themself. I am a retired professional in the field. The reason why clinical programs use the steps (usually up to the 4th) is because they work in many ways and accomplish many things necessary for the person DESIRING sobriety to get a good grip on feeling sober and then chosing that over the compulsion to drink and its negative consequences. Numbers can be used in many ways. What is of most importance is the number one. It if works for the one person chosing to work it for one day at a time with one reason in mind.
The AA 12 step program is spiritual. It is only spiritual while acknowledging that there are many sources of aid avaiable for those in recovery to investigate while on the path to daily sobriety. These aids support mental, physical, emotional and spiritual health. Alcoholism affects every system in the human being. All must be treated. My sponson told me that if I was not recovering on all of these levels I was not recoverying fully. I find that to be the truth so I work at having a recovering spirit 24/7.
I believe that my HP uses and will continue to use what ever is available for me to attain and maintain my peace of soul and serenity. As a result when suggestions have been made to me in the past I check them out and then make a decision afterward.
AA has a huge character of love. It is family. It is loss of fear. It is unconditional acceptance. It is humble and honest. I get real experiences, strength and hope from thousands of others who have stayed sober before me and who give me all this for free out of love, compassion and a true desire to see it work for me. I have not recieved this from any other entity that I have been envolved in before or since coming into recovery myself.
I know the loneliness, fear and confusion of trying to keep myself away from others who had the better way and whom I openly rejected. The early years of Al-Anon and then the start of the AA program also were hard until I surrendered absolutely. I continue to see the same thing in my family members who have one criticism or more of the program rather than the honesty that they are not ready to remain sober. They have more of a fear of sobriety than the fatalness of the disease. Too sad.
There are other programs that work. There are programs that have been morphed from 12step and that work. There are couches and pills some of which will point a hurting person into the doors of AA and Al-Anon and some that will just give the pain another appointment and another bill. It is our choice to investigate. It seems you have and have become convinced that AA is the one for you. I have also investigated; deeply including college on the specifics. I have tried many avenues and methods. Some I have outrightly rejected while others I have made more earnest attempts.
The one and only one that has worked best for me on all leverls; mind, body, spirit and emotions has been Al-Anon and AA regarless of statistics. It seems to have also worked for you. Keep coming back. (((((hugs)))))
My point is this. A-ism is not a disease that has to be diagnosed; confirmed by an MD, such as cancer or other illness. Many diagnose themselves, and so take up the path of recovery in various ways; some succeed, some fail, some fail then succeed, and what is the definition of 'success', as to formulate a success-rate anyway?
No treatment for any disease is 100% failproof. Some diseases go into remission, then return with or without the presence of treatments. If AA's claim is that it can keep a person sober for 24 hours, and that is the only claim of AA, then might it not have a 100% success rate?
Reciprocally, am I not 100% successful in alanon, in this 24 hours, because I have done nothing to enable any alcoholic, and I have done 1 thing for myself today? If I enable tomorrow, have I relapsed? Does this mean that alanon has a poor success rate?
Speaking for my family experience only: my father-in-law did it cold turkey and has 36+ years in Novemeber. He never attended AA until he went with hubby. He found his God and that has seen him through. My father in law is an exception to the rule. My husband, can't do it without AA. He's tried, and failed many, many times. But he also needs his mental health program as well. He goes to group once a week, meets with his therapist and pyschiatrist once a month. He tried doing just the mental health work without AA, and that didn't work either. He has finally realized that he needs both. Now he's got he right combination and is doing great.
My gut feeling is that 99% of people need AA. The stats don't lie. IMO, AA gives the addict the tools to survive and deal with what's a head. But I also think that most addicts could use some professional help as well. After they get sober, there's all the emotions etc, to deal that, that sometimes only a professional can help with. They diagnosed him with super anxiety and prescriped the right medication. Unfortunately, AA can't do that.
It doesn't mean that I'm not grateful for AA. You have no idea how grateful I am. When hubby is feeling a bit out of it, he gets himself to his meetings or calls one of his friends. AA is the lifeguard and the mental health work is the swim instructor. The AA lifeguard, swims out to get him. The mental health instructor shows him a new stroke to keep on swimming.
Each person has to find their own path to recovery. To say that it's the AA way or nothing, or the Alanon way or nothing I think is unfair to an extent. As an anthropologist it's like saying that all people born in South America have 1 culture. We all know that's not true. There is no cookie cutter science in treating a disease. My aunt has colon cancer, her treatment will vary from the other person. We have to recognize the differences in each other, in order to seek the best treatment possible. But are there certain treatments and standards that are the most successful? Absolutely. They should be explained to the patient. It would be irresponsible of the doctor not too.
The fact that AA has such as successful track record means that most people will choose that course of treatment. But let us be careful in not condemming others who do not choose that. Sometimes in order to find their way to AA or Alanon they have to wander a bit. All we can do as members is to keep shining the light down the darkened path so that they find their way home.
Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
Not being an A myself I feel unqualified to give a more detailed reply other than having few dear friends that are in AA for many, many years with positive results, for me that’s enough to see a success rate measured.
For my Al-Anon point of view - I had started out by going to counseling for a few years. As necessary as that was I did not feel like I really belonged until I found this program. This is from my Al-Anon Beginners Opening Preamble that helped me realize I was in the right place:
We didn't Cause it, We cannot Cure it, We cannot Control it. What we can do, using this program is learn to cope with it. We can then begin to live out our own lives, finding contentment and even happiness whether the alcoholic stops drinking or not.
And –
We urge you to give the Al-Anon program at least six months. That means reading Al-Anon literature everyday and attending meetings regularly. Then if you are not satisfied, your misery will be cheerfully refunded.
Once I walked thru the doors, heard this, saw the smiles, received hugs and heard that others truly understood helped me realize I was in the right place. I felt there was help and there was hope like no other for that feeling of being sick and tired - This is where I believed I belonged. I could find the tools to work on me in detail for my daily life.
As David said, "It works if you work it, and it won't if you don't"
Whatever works for another more power to them, who am I to judge?
