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My husband and I are talking about a reconciliation after 5 weeks of being seperated due to a relapse. I have set very clear boundries for myself and have been keeping them with him. These boundries are working very well and I am pleased with myself. My husband has been attending meetings since this occured and is taking necessary steps to prevent it in the future.
My question relates to some conditions I would like to set prior to him coming home. I am not sure however, if I have a right to do so. So any feedback would be appreciated.
1. Set minimum # of meetings per week for him to attend (as he slacked off them prior to his relapse)
2. He is to continue his counseling.
3. He is to get a sponsor and be working with the sponsor.
4. He is not to drink O'Douls any longer.
There are other basic conditions that apply to the household such as finances, splitting duties etc.
Am I being unreasonable in asking these things as part of our reconciliation?
Karen
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Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. Love you all!
Karen
First, it's great that you're thinking about how to take care of yourself!
When I have to make a tough decision, like the one's you're making about what boundaries to set, I do what I like to call a "Walk Through" where I try my decision on in my mind and see how well it will work for me. The one concern that I would have if I were setting the limits you outline, is enforcement. This list requires you to count his meetings, counseling sessions, etc. and generally keep track of his recovery in order to know whether he has or has not met your conditions. Then, it puts you in the difficult position of deciding when he has met the conditions enough or not to stay in your home. For example, let's say he attends 3 meetings a week in weeks 1-3 and then misses one AA meeting in week four of being home. Does he leave then? What if he then follows up with missing two counseling sessions in week nine? Does he leave then? If you ask him to leave, what is he likely to say--will he go willingly, resist, etc.? What are you willing to do to get him out of your home if he resists?
This kind of "Walk Through" often helps me really think through what it is I am trying to accomplish and it also helps me really decide if I can say what I mean and mean what I say. If I can't or think my decision will lead me right back to insanity, I go back to the drawing board. If I am totally stuck about what to do I talk to my sponsor who is always such a great help in helping me see the forest for the trees, and helps me keep the focus on taking care of myself and off of the As in my life.
Hell, you're being generous. Most ala wives I know require at least a year of sobriety before their husbands can even think about moving back in. And then, they have to already have comitted to mairrage counceling, him going to counceling....
You keep up the good work. And keep up your boundries. You're no bodies' fool.
In my opinion, none of these are unreasonable at all... .They all, however, have one 'not so endearing' quality - in that they all appear to be boundaries that YOU are planning on monitoring and enforcing....
It's really tough - this stage - as you want to know that he is committed to his recovery, but you also KNOW that you need your focus to be on you, and not him....
The only thing I might change, particularly with the one about the number of meetings per week, is to turn it around a bit.... try telling him this is an issue, and a good indicator of how committed to his recovery that he is going to be, and ask HIM to set the # per week..... Just a thought...
Good luck
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
whenever i have a question about setting a boundry i stop and ask myself what's my motive? when i really look to see if i am setting the boundry for me, something to keep me safe or comfortable then that's my motive but when i start asking things of others to make me feel safe or comfortable then my motive may be to change the other person or control the situation. it finally dawned on me today that the thing that really irratates me about my mother is her trying to control me. she is so good at letting some really big things go (which may be where she gets the "saint" thing from) but little things--omg! this has always frustrated me about her. she'll ask if i want the power sprayer to clean the pool. no thanks, i say. she then tells me that it would be a good idea to take it. no thanks i say. she then asks me why wouldn't i want it, it will be so easy to clean the pool with it etc. no thank you. she then asks how am i going to clean it without the power sprayer? i heard im a meeting to say it once, if you say it again you're trying to control. personally i think that might be slightly extreme, i forget thing at times. but i drove home (without the power sprayer-which might be a sign of immaturity on my part i don't know) thinking of how many times i made my husband feel the way i was feeling. and it is not a good feeling. now i have to figure out how NOT to do that to my kids. i don't know if any of this helped but good luck and i hope love sustains y'all.
Hmmmm....you have the RIGHT to set any boundaries you feel are right for you period.
When setting boundaries I have to think real hard on them. Are they something enforceable? What are my motives? Is this me trying to control someone else, or is this me trying to protect me?
How important is the boundary? If I can answer these questions honestly and say that the boundary is something I cannot live a peaceful, happy life without...then the boundary needs to be set.
I agree with what a couple of others have said about setting up those boundaries that would make a lot of work for yourself in the monitoring department.
my first thought is of course you have the right to set boundaries and conditions!! not related to Al-Anon but i had to do this with my ex because of his DV (domestic violence), i gave him a chance but i insisted he go to therapy, that we go to couples counseling, and that he finish a non-violence program. he did the program, which helped him for about 2 weeks. he went to therapy, but seemed to be using it to reinforce his "blame games" rather than really get help. he "forgot" about the couples counseling. and he did get worse, and he attacked me and my babe again, so i was GONE for good after 3 tries. the thing is, i set conditions that, as others have said, required me to monitor his progress. it was exhausting! i felt like i was babysitting him. i ended up not working on my own issues at all, missing support groups, etc.
is there a way you can re-evaluate what conditions you want to set, so that you don't have to be involved in monitoring his progress? to make it easier on you!
You risk so much of your feelings in a reconciliation, you want SO much for thigns to work out.
I minored in psychology in college and then nearly finished a MS degree in it (my daughter got sick and I had to drop out my last year). I learned a LOT about the subtle differences in boundaries. Lots of people have trouble seeing the difference between a PERSONAL boundary and a "controlling" boundary.
Nearly all of "your boundaries" are really veiled attempts at control although I know you don't see it that way.
Let me give you an example:
A "personal" boundary and appropriate one would be: I will not force myself to endure the drunken behavior of others, when I have to be around (and I will try to avoid their company) people who drink to excess I will always arrange to have a contingency plan in place so I can leave if I need to to protect my boundary (as in driving separate cars, arranging with friends to take 'emergency phone calls" to provide rides if needed, etc.).
A "controlling boundary" would be: I will not tolerate anyone drinking around me, so no one better drink to excess around me and I will lock up the liqour cabinet, hide my checkbook/credit card, and talk to the waiter about serving the people with me more than two drinks.
Your personal boundary could be that you tell your husband that you will NOT remain in a marriage with a husband who is a drunk, then be prepared to back that up should be begin to drink to excess again. Don't try to enforce your personal boundary by policing his drinking, that is a veiled attempt at unhealhty control not a personal boundary.
Tell your husband YOUR boundaries, that you will not remain in a marriage with someone with a drinking problme if that is how you feel. Leave it to HIM to figure out how to stay sober. He is a big boy, he can figure out which recovery program to go into, how often he needs to go what sort of counseling he needs to keep his sobreity etc..
It is NOT conducive to marital happiness for you to be his warden and police his every move and decision. Like the others have said, it will be difficult to enforce YOUR rules and regulations since they are controlling. Most of the time they are doomed to failure also as most adults resent policing activities of others in the long run. In the desperation of reconciliation most people agree to anything, but will end up resenting living in a police state where their lives are planned out for them.
Start working on YOUR personal boundaries. What YOU will do to remove yourself from an unhealthy situation should you see the need. Are you ready financially and emotionally to separate/divorce should he start drinking again? That will be a LOT easier than trying to police his drinking and twist yourself into a pretzel trying to make sure he keeps to YOUR rules.
I hope you don't mind my straight talk here, but you did ask others opinion and I am giving mine. I don't think my opinion carries any more weight than others and most clearly disagree with me, but I just thought I would give you a little personal background so you can see where my very different view is coming from.
My husband often likens his alcholism to the problem of obesity in this country and he has a very good point. He says that MANY people are killing themselves in this country, with either alcohol, excess food, or cigarettes and no one makes too much of a fuss over those things. We have had two friends die in their 30's from obesity.
Although not obese I still struggle with a weight problem. So I definately can relate to his example. If my husband were to say that I suffered from a possibly life threatening disease he would be right. Obesity kills millions of people, and many succomb younger to obesity than alcoholism claims alcoholics. However I would have to kick him to the curve if he were to start making conditions for dealing with my weight problem. If he were to tell me that if I lived with him I could eat NO ice cream (akin to your telling your husband no more ODouls) and had to attend two weight watchers meetings a week and had to attend bariatric counseling I would be incredulous. I KNOW I have a problem and I am dealing with it in the way that is best for me. Who is HE to tell me what will work for me? Who made him the expert on my physioloigcal needs?
Whatever you decide I hope it works out. Take care of YOU! This is tough to do when you are the self appointed recovery police...
Hi hun, I have other options to suggest as your 1st three boundaries do seem to hinge on you monitoring his committment to recovery which in my opinion puts you at risk of losing your own focus. The 4th boundary I cannot comment on as I don't know what O'Douls is.
I was just wondering whether you could stay separated (for a period of time you are comfortable with) and put the onus on him to show you by example what his committment to recovery is. Let him decide without your input how many meetings to attend, whether to get and use a sponsor and to continue with counselling. If for example in your mind you decide to give it three months, evaluate at that time what improvements you have noticed for yourself rather than him tell you about. (A's are very good at telling you what you want to hear.) Also, I would be careful as to whether you tell your A about the proposed time limit as my A was able to 'be on his best behaviour' until he got what he wanted then he'd go right back to doing his own thing, running on self-will. It took my A, a year and approximately four relapses in the fellowship before he could maintain his sobriety.
I however did it the other way round. I reconciled with him when he joined the fellowship and said I'd review it after a year to see if significant progress had been made and maintained. His relapses hit me hard and I could've avoided the hurt and disappointment if I'd suggested he get a years recovery before reconciliation. I also feel today that for the first year, while working on recovery it may have been better for him not to have had the pressure of trying to rebuild a damaged relationship while he was learning about his true self for the first time in his life. It's not easy to work out what is best but you do need to do what you think is right for you. Just something else to think about, hope it helps.
I agree with Tom, as long as you set the boundaries, he knows the consequence and ya leave it in his lap, I believe they are great.
My boundaries are typical. I know if he cannot stick to them, then we cannot live together period.
90 meetings in 90 days, go to VA and get on meds for bi polar, get on meds for all his other problems, go to va when he gets his horrid headackes, be on his program. Go to tinnitis clinic and get help.
It is all up to him. He does not have to walk on eggshells. He knows he cannot fool me, so he does not try. I don't place blame or fight. He knows I care and love him and detach.
But he also knows I am serious. Seems like he is too. But again day at a time. And I have me to take care of he can take care of him, and we can share a space together.
The important thing is, and it is not easy at first, stick to your consequences, that is how you take care of you and don't allow the disease to manipulate you.
O'Douls is a supposedly "non-alcoholic" beer. I say supposedly since it does have SOME alcohol. Sort of like decaffeinated coffee still retains some traces of caffeine. That is why it can't be labeled "caffeine free" like herbal teas can.
I have never touched the stuff. I know about it since my daughter asked about it. Occasionally over the years my husband has tried to cut down on his drinking after a "wetting his pants", or "crazy talk" episode by drinking O'Douls mixed with regular malt liqour. He pointed the O'Douls out to our daughter, while hiding the malt liqour. We were once in a store and my daughter wanted to buy it to use in recipes (like beer battered fish) since it was billed as non-alcoholic and we are total abstainers from alcohol. I did not like the idea but wanted to be reasonable so I said "OK". When we got to the check-out the cashier asked to see my ID. I asked her why since it was a NON-alcholic drink and should be like pop. The cashier explained that it still falls under state liqour laws since it contains small amounts of alcohol and if drunk in excess can still cause slight intoxication in minors (although would probably not effect an alcoholic with high tolerance), so they are not allowed to buy it. I put it back on the shelf.
Since it still had small amounts of alcohol my husband's plan backfired. It only had enough alcohol to tease him which drove him crazy and he would drunk drive out to get more high alchol content malt liqour and would stay drunk all weekend since he says he "felt cheated" to have drunk the day before (the malt liqour diluted with the O'Douls) and not gotten the "buzz" he so loves. So, he had to get extra drunk the next two days to make up for it. Once I arrived hom from work to find him passed out on the floor, with literally like 50 bottles all around him, some were ODouls, but most were malt liqour. He had been drinking all day and the night before, just drank until he passed out, woke up and drank some more until he passed out again, for more than 24 hours. That is what that supposedly "non-alcoholic" beer did to him, that is one horrible drink. SIGH!
Thanks Isabela for the info on O'Douls. Its amazing what you learn by replying to others posts. I at least now understand why Alamom doesn't want hubby drinking it, sounds pretty dreadful!
I do hope you find some help within all these replies Alamom. I wish you well.
