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I posted this on the AA side, and was wondering if anyone has ESH on this. I shared about this in a meeting and was doing well, but that sh***y committee is going off and I am hot and miserable at work and can't get them to shut up.
I have a question, and I am stuggling for words, which is not always the norm for me.
My husband and I have been together almost 9 years, August 12th is our anniversary. And during that time he has been in and out of the program. And once during that time, he and I seperated, his sponsor (at the time) told him to. He and I were sperated for one week shy of a year. We saw aechother quite a bit we have children together (at the time my oldest was 2 and I was pregant with our second child), but we weren't "together". One of the most painful times of my life, but I grew so much. His sponsor and I even sat down after hubby and I got back together and he wanted to explain to me why he suggested it. I told him I that know I can see how sick I was, and even thanked him for it. I learned so much about me.
Ok why am I telling you all this?
Fast forward to last week.
My hubby's new sponsor (hubby still active) has been helping him to assemble paperwork to be eligible for a really nice job. He finally finished it all and called me last week to let me know it was ready and he would be dropping it off. (Hubby is in Alaska fishing that's why his sponsor is calling me.) He then said okay you know the only thing stading in his way, and I answered yeah him (my hubby). And he said yeah. He then said I should do everything I could so that hubby stays sober (hubby is clean/sober because he can't drink/drug on the boat company had 0 toleralnce policy). I then tried to tell him that I had no control over hubby's addiction. I know at times I can make it easier than others for him to have an excuse to go out. His sponsor would accept that. He said that if that was my attitude, then maybe hubby and I should not be together. I then invited his sponsor to alanon. Hehe he told me no.
Ok, sorry finally the point, I work my program (alanon) I use my tools, and I think I am a pretty healthy person (there are a few srews that will never be tightened as the once were, but I actually like them a little undone). But I am terrified that once again another person is going to step in and say she is to unhealthy and you should leave her.
As I was writting this a thought came to me. Please tell me if I am wrong, but I hear denial in his arguement that I have control over this. If my hubby's addiction was in my ability to control I would have "fixed" him years ago. I was the perfect co-dependent, I tried everything. But I have met several people from the meetings here (AA and NA) that agree with that I have control over it, maybe not complete, but some. I don't believe I have control, but influence. If I poured him a glass of alcohol or loaded the pipe and put it in front of him, he still has a choice, but I am influenceing him. (Which I have never will I ever do those things)
I know I am projecting, and if this had not happened in the past, I probably wouldn't be scared. But I know my hubby really values this man's opinion and listens to his advice.
So I was wondering if anyone has suggestions on how to talk to the sponsor, is it common to suggest that a spouse leave a spouse? (Really wincing as I typed that, I know in alanon we don't suggest that) I am confused and feel blind sided by a man have come to love and respect and of course since hubby is out of state I have the committee going off in my head, and they won't shut up. Honestly I felt like he was telling me that I wasn't a good enough wife becasue I can't keep my hubby clean/sober.
Yours in recovery,
Dolphin123
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"Today's problems can not be solved if we still think the way we did when we created them" -Albert Einstein
Sounds like you know the answer. You don't make him drink/drug. In your worst days, he had choices for how to deal with life. If you rob banks and wreck the cars and abuse the dog, he has a choice to make it better for him, by drinking ... or not.
I really struggle with this, even now. I know the answer too, but it still tugs at my heart when the excusses come and they are ME. But that is a feeling, not the truth.
His sponsor on the other hand is also something out of your control unfortunately. Hopefully your hubby's HP found this person for him. If so, it will work out, or it may be a grand learning experience for him. But either way, it's none of your doing... right?
Take care of you!
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
It always amazes me how someone "with program" can be so "unenlightened" sometimes. I absolutely loved the part where you invited him to an alanon meeting!!! And it does not surprise me he said no ... he he he.
But as rtexas says, you know the answers already. You have no control over hubby's drinking. You have no control over hubby's sponsor. Keep doing the right things for you, and you will be doing the right things for everyone!
NOWHERE do I find in my secret copy of "Sponsorship for Dummies" the chapters where a sponsor should be filling out paperwork for job opportunities, OR advising on relationships and stay/leave decisions...... Hmmm....
If I were you, I would stick with what you know - you are strong in your recovery, and it is WAY over any semblance of line that your A's sponsor is stepping....
Just my opinion
Take care
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Maybe , this was just a big misunderstanding. Hopefully the sponser was just trying to reiterate how important it is for hubby to stay clean/sober and your support is needed for hubby. Sponser was just so excited about potental job for hubby he got a little bit "human" and forgot. (Some AAers don't know/practice the 3Cs, do they?)
You are such a wonderful person, ((dolphin)). I have read several of your replys to others and felt uplifted even though the post was not intended for me. What a blessing you are.
Make that committee shut up,,, sing them a happy song (or joyful noise in my case)
As I read your post I was reminded of a person I met many many years ago in AA. I heard him speak at a conference about just such a thing. He was sponsoring a newcomer to the program and suggested that he leave his wife. As he put it he thought he had the best intentions for this person's recovery. It was his sponsor that pointed out to him that he had suggested this to at least 5 people he sponsored. After some work on himself he realized that there was an unresolved resentment he had over his own failed marriage. He came to discover that he was passing this resentment on to those he sponsored. He fired himself from sponsoring people for a period of time and worked on himself. He pointed out during his share that he was judging his sponsees relationships and the spouses for their presumed interference in their recovery. He was giving advice to those who in their early months of recovery were grasping at whatever they could to stay sober. He admitted he was wrong and made amends to each of these sponsees and their spouses. He ended his share saying that while 3 of the 5 did chose to end their relationships it was their choice - not his influence. He acknowledged that his distaste for those practicing the Alanon lifestyle went away when he realized that he in fact needed Alanon for himself.
I wont pretend to know what your husband's sponsors motivation is. I doubt talking to him will have any effect on the situation. Unfortunatly even those in AA w/ some recovery are not well versed in the principles of their program. It really is a sad event when someone who is striving for lasting recovery takes ill mannered advice. I hope that your husband can see the forest through the trees.
In the meantime - you know you are doing the right things in taking care of you. You have given yourself the answers you need to live a serene life. Projecting the outcome of what your husband will do will drive you crazy. Stay strong in your program and your HP will see you through this new trial.
Karen
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Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. Love you all!
Karen
Might be a good time to clear the irrelevant stuff out of the way. You KNOW that you are working your program, as hard as you can, and you know that a well worked alanon program can help an A stay sober by staying out of his business. You know that you have no control over what this sponsor does, and, ultimately, over what your A does. All the rest is just stuff you FEAR.
Continue to support your A with love, compassion, and detachment.
I find that most A's know nothing about our program, even ones who are active in AA. The two programs are different - there seems to be more emphasis on caring for others in theirs, and they are much less focused on "Pay attention to yourself, and stay out of others' business". I believe this is because most A's are very self absorbed - they need that kick in the butt to look out for the other person. We, on the other hand, have the opposite problem. We need to be forced to focus on ourselves. Often, at roundups and open AA meetings, where alanons speak, AA's will come afterwards and say things like "I had no idea - never thought it had that effect on you". They are often shocked and amazed that most of us fell for the A line of bull - they are so aware how fragile that house of cards is, and think that everyone can see through it.
You could offer to give this sponsor some alanon literature to read; that might be easier for him to take. Ulitimately, though, you have no control over what he does. Don't let this knock you off of your own path. You know that you are one of the saner voices here.
I agree with SLD.Sounds to me like the sponsor was saying that you should do everything you can to support your husband's sobriety.Nothing wrong with that, of course you would do that.When you told him you have no control over your husband's drinking,the sponsor may have thought he was detecting an unhelpful attitude.Just my opinion, I think it was a misunderstanding.Either way it doesn't mean he's going to suggest your husband leave you,he was just making a point to you to emphasize the importance of your support.
From my experience with my recovering AH, and 16 years around other recovering A's,alcoholics know all too well that a spouse cannot keep them sober.No one can.This guy would have to be a total idiot to believe that and since you say you have come to love and respect him,I doubt if he is that stupid.
I too agree that while we cannot control our A's we can have a positive influence. That is one reason why I believe the Al-Anon program works. By focusing on us and improving ourselves, it effects changes in our lives and relationships.
I was just wondering if you could be direct with your hubby's sponsor and ask specifically in which ways he feels you could 'support' your husband to remain sober. Depending on how he replies you may then have a better idea and be able to evaluate for yourself whether it constitutes control or support and encouragement. You know enough to be able to trust yourself, your gut instincts and your HP with your decisions around this.
I totally understand your fear as it happened before. I would be livid and suspect I would fall rapidly off my program if my hubby's sponsor so much as intimated that we should separate. It is not his role to judge me or our relationship or decide what is best for my A, THAT is HP's job. My understanding is a sponsor guides and supports an A to make healthy decisions for themselves not sow seeds of discontent. He is entitled to his opinion but once that opinion affects you, you have choices. You are powerless over them both but not yourself. You stand strong girl and gag that committee!
I wish you peace and strength, just keep on doing the next right thing.
I know it would be out of place for me to air my disgust for this type of so-called 'sponsorship' on the Alanon board, as a double-winner.... did that already on the AA board.
But I went to an AA meeting tonight where the topic was indeed 'sponsorship', and a few seasoned and very healthy recovering AA's with more than 15 years of continuous sobriety were on the panel discussing this very subject of sponsorship. Seems that not ONLY is it important for an AA sponsor (or any sponsor, for that matter) to read the information in the group's text about spionsorship, first and foremost.
It was also suggested, and I found this VERY interesting, that the SPONSEE... (the one BEING sponsored)... read the text and the pamphlets on sponsorship. This lets both parties know exactly what their relationship is supposed to be about; nothing more, nothing less.
But, as I am quickly realizing, by attending sessions with more and more Alanons, and reading more and more posts, I perhaps need to let go of what other sponsors are/aren't doing. Such advice still burns me up, though. I get really protective about what vulnerable newly-recovering people are told. This is all supposed to be about God's will in people's lives, not Man's will...
Just my 'vent'... and keep working the program of AlAnon, as suggested by all the wonderful people here... I am still so brand-spankin' new with AlAnon stuff...
How awful that you are dealing with this additional stress!
Just remember that sponsors are not psychological professionals. They, like all of us, have their own psychological baggage that may or may not be resovled. The fact that they have gotten sober is no guarantee of emotional or mental health.
It is stories like yours that make me wary when choosing a sponsor. The only two people whom I have asked, because I saw true recovery in them, turned me down, they were still focusing on their own recovery and just did not feel "ready" to sponsor anyone. Funny...as they were the most qaulitifed in my opinion. Their growth was evident, I saw the progress in their lives. They went from chaos to calm and their serenity and emotional health was obvious as they continued to work on building healthy happy lives for themselves.
I once shared this with a few alanon friends and was shocked when few of them offered to be my sponsor. I was quite taken aback as these people had a very chaotic life. They went from one crisis to another, many of which were of their own creation. Their lives were so chaotic that I marveled that they even thought about sponsoring someone else! I don't want to judge anyone, but, for some people, maybe it is more of a power trip. They can't make wise decisions for themselves, but get their self esteem bolstered by being in a teaching position and guide to someone else. It makes them feel important maybe to be in the role of guiding someone else's recovery...even though they can't find their own...sigh.
I finally told my therapist about all of this and he agreed with me that many people in recovery programs who feel they can sponsor people really shouldn't, as they don't have enough emotional health to even lead a healthy and productive life themselves, much less help anyone one else learn to. He went through the steps with me. He was the only one I trusted to give me any guideance...sigh. He was certainly qualified...he had many years in alanon as he shared with me he had family members that suffered from addiction.
Alanon is a program of attraction, I want a sponsor who is CLEARLY gaining benefit from the program. Not one who goes to meetings and talks the talk but does not walk the walk and their lives are a MESS! What can I learn from them?
Not even a professional therapist will ever tell you to leave your mate. That is a serious violation of any standards and ethics in any "recovery" program.
To me that is more of the sickness of addiction...more of the "blame game" my sick alcoholic husband pulls on me...sigh. To think that he may get support for that sick thinking from other SICK people still mired in their sickness in AA...is SCARY. I would hope he would go to AA to help himself and get better himself and STOP pointing the finger at me! I am working on myself.
((((((((((((((((Dolphin)))))))))))))))))
If I were in your shoes I would seek out my OWN professional therapy for support during this time. Tell him/her what your husband's sponsor is telling him and you and get a professional opinion on the appropriateness of that sponsor's opinion. Maybe this can sway your husband into getting a healthier sponsor.
In reading your post, it reminded me of how I felt when I read the Big Book (AA's book) "The Chapter to the Wives" Somebody call the waambulance - Compassion my butt
You remember your focus is on your recovery. That is the best thing that you can do for your husband's recovery is to focus on your recovery.
You know that and don't let anyone tell you any different!!!!
Take care & I'll keep you and your hubby in my prayers & keep sending good thoughts of recovery for both you your way,
Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
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Hopefully the sponser was just trying to reiterate how important it is for hubby to stay clean/sober and your support is needed for hubby. Sponser was just so excited about potental job for hubby he got a little bit "human" 
and forgot. (Some AAers don't know/practice the 3Cs, do they?) 
I have read several of your replys to others and felt uplifted even though the post was not intended for me. What a blessing you are. 
sing them a happy song 
(or joyful noise in my case)
- Compassion my butt 