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I believe he has secrets. He has a yahoo email address; he has a web-cam that I just discovered yesterday. I have issues with trust anyway, and I find incriminating evidence. He also received an email on his regular email site from some porn site. He said it was something he had no knowledge of and deleted it quickly. Am I not seeing the forest for the trees? I want to trust him and believe what he says. I am so naive...have been all my life. I couldn't even imagine that he was drinking until my friend, a recovering alcoholic, practically had to tie me down to make me listen and hear. There is no way the A would level with me if there is any truth to my suspicions. Is this just another thing we put out of our minds and call,"none of our business?" Yeah...you right...like I could do that.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Diva have to ask here I know you are separated(divorced?) but living in the same house. Do you have any ground rules with each other whilst living in this arrangement? The email would probably be sending my mind into overdrive but you have to be careful here that you are not taking his inventory. I would be really concerned though if there is some connection to children and that is something I would not tolerate. You could be sneaky and check the computer when he is not around but then what are you going to do about the information you find on there? You know I think you should do what your gut instinct is telling you at this moment go with it. (((())) Luv Leo xxx
I believe I saw what I wanted to see. I made excuses for things that were too painful for me to accept. Like when I KNEW he was with another woman....somehow I convinced myself......he was drunk! maybe it was her taking advantage of him! all kinds of rubbish excuses like this. But even though I wouldn't admit it even to myself, I knew really. It gnawed away at me, until it got too much......and I had to cope with it all.
In my experience the active Awill lie and lie. Sometimes I think it comes so naturally to him that he often doesn't know what the truth is himself. This is his coping mechanism, it helps him get by in his world...a world that always seems to have something against him. As far as I can see he will always do whatever he needs to to smooth his path for himself.
I learned to see through it bit by bit. I got stronger. I now have sympathy for someone who has to live their life like this. How can any person be at peace with themself when they're having to lie and cover up all the time.
This is just my view Diva, just what happened to me. Not all situations are the same.
I know while my A was active he had secrets. I suspect he still has some (not the other woman type of thing) because he has always been private. As for the porn stuff, when he was active that was a part of his life along with the strip bars. Why? Who knows? It's fairly common so they tell me. But it didn't make me feel any better.
Trust is a hard issue while they are active and while they are sober. We are so use to their lies when they are drinking. Then we they are sober, it's hard not to question what they are doing or feeling. Like you, I couldn't just put it out of my mind. So the question then becomes, do you want that confrontation or do you just want those feelings to stay in you and simmer? Either way it's not a good thing. (sigh) why does this disease have to be such a pain in the ? Grrrrr ....... Hope you find the answers you're looking for.
Love and blessings to you and the animals dear friend.
Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
Hi Diva, my A always has secrets. I can't stand it. I always feel like something is going on, but I can never prove it. Once I came across the name Kelly on his cell phone. That was the only number actually programmed in there. I confronted him about it and I even called her. She said she was just a bartender that worked at the bar he would visit while he was on the road. I think she was telling the truth, but who knows for sure?? I never believe a word of my A. When I asked him who that was, his first response was "I don't know". That is his basic answer for everything until I push further and then he always seems to "know" what I'm asking him.
Back when our computer was hooked up at home, I used to do history searches to see where my husband was visiting. He didn't know I could do that. I found a lot of porn sites which didn't bother me too much, but one porn site did. This one had 18 year old girls. As young as they could get and still be legal. My husband is in his late 30's and I thought that was kind of gross. I know he had a very young girlfriend one time (before I knew him) and he seems to talk about her like she was the greatest thing ever. Never mind that she was a lazy gold digger.
Anyway, my view is this; if you suspect something is going on, it probably is. I hate the fact that my A has made me so paranoid where I check his cell phone when he's sleeping, go through his bills when he doesn't know it etc. etc. I just hate the secrets! I hope you're okay. There are some of us who know what it's like.
It never ceases to amaze me where this disease can take them and us for that matter. I just keep telling myself that HP won't give me more than I can handle and I draw on the strength of those here when I am feeling weak.
My hubby has a problem with porn. And well so do I, I despise it and do not allow it in my house. Whenever I find a magazine or video I hand it to him and tell him that he needs to hide it better, like not under the bed. I know that despite my hatred of the stuff, it is still there. Because my hatered of his alhocol and or drugs isn't enough to make him stop, so why should it be any different with the porn.
I have been working on letting it go and detaching with love is a struggle for me on this.
Yours in recovery,
Dolphin123
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"Today's problems can not be solved if we still think the way we did when we created them" -Albert Einstein
I HATE the fact that I am hearing and reading,in some very reputable books,that A's cannot be honest.In my case my AH,who has been sober 16 years,still has problems in this area.The trust I had for him has been totally blown, I don't know if I can ever get it back.My A likes to make 'friends' with women online.He says he's helping them with their AA but it's funny he doesn't help any of the men,it's always the women.He says he doesn't get into the porn and I have never suspected that,never saw anything that pointed to that.But I live with the feeling the other shoe could drop at any time.
It's kinda strange how the opening reading at all AA meetings talks about the ones who do not make it in AA because they are 'constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves'.Apparently sobriety is not a cure for that.
Throughout my marriage,but mainly since my A's sobriety,it seems as much as he tries to hide things,my HP always lets me find them.It is quite accidental.I'll walk in when he doesn't expect it or find a piece of paper while I'm cleaning.One time all I did was turn on the computer ( have my own now,but back then we used the same one) and it opened right up to his email.That HAD to be HP,cause that just does not happen.There was an email from a woman he had told me he wasn't talking to anymore.Another time I was online just looking at different websites and an IM popped up from her.She thought it was him.(I'm sure that is why he insisted on buying me my own computer)
I'm thinking your HP is showing you something.I do also want to say that sometimes appearances can be deceiving.Try not to jump to conclusions.Trust your gut and try to stay in concious contact with HP.If HE is trying to tell you something,more will be revealed.
My ex was a big secret keeper too....she was also a self admitted accomplished liar. I too was a very naive person throughout our marriage, and admittedly all of my life. In many ways I still am, but that's okay, it's who I am. A very trusting person. If you are someone I am close too, it takes you slapping me very hard for me to believe ill of you in any way.
This being said, I was also someone who "knew" things werent right, but chose to ignore them..hmmmmm....I believe the saying goes that da nile.. is more than just a river in Egypt.
What I have come to realize since coming into this program, is that I do need to learn to listen to that little voice inside of me..to acknowledge that feeling in the pit of my stomach. Now that doesnt necessarily mean that my initial response to this "feeling" is correct. It doesnt mean that a suspicion I have about something is right, but it does mean to me now, that I need to dig a little deeper at what is causing my feeling. I will NOT stick my head in the sand anymore.
First I need to look at me, and see if it is something of mine that I need to deal with and not the other persons "deal" at all. If I decide it is something outside of me, I have to decide the best way to deal with that, bearing in mind that I can't control someone else's actions. But I do control what is acceptable to me. I try to come up with a reasonable boundary and let free will reign. Others have choices about our boundaries...follow them or not. We have choices too!
I came to the A with a distinct disadvantage. My family of origin is very very secretive. I did not notice that he was very very secretive. It was not a red flag for me. He keeps lots of secrets. I doubt we will ever have an open loving relationship because he is still "using" on so many levels. He thinks recovery is all about me getting better. He needs nothing. So that is about the sum of it. I have given up the semblance of having that with him. As long as he is using that is not a possibility. I would not have that conviction without al-anon.
Oy, Diva. I am so sorry you are having to go through this.
When I sign up for eMail accounts I sign up as a male even though I am a female. I feel more secure having strangers think the eMail account belongs to a male. For years and years I have gotten eMail spam from porn sites inviting me to view the most hideous things. I have never been to a porn site, so I don't know why they are sending me this trash. But, I know that Internet Service Providers sell our information. So, unless you opened the mail, you cannot be sure if it was just an advertisement or not.
I also haven't met a male yet who didn't view some kind of pornography.
In my marriage to my a I learned that he could not be trusted. Everything he said was a lie. This made me very uncomfortable. I kept doing research and I kept reading here and everything I read said that lies are common. Mainly I think there are a lot of self-esteem issues with alcoholics and this may play a part in their cheating.
I kept living with these lies and being made more and more unhappy as things were surfacing. I also had to protect myself. Because, if my a was cheating I could get some serious diseases; some that couldn't be cured and some that might even kill me. In all of my struggles to accept I couldn't get away from the thought that I didn't deserve this, I shouldn't have to accept, I should not have to live with poor treatment and dishonesty and I was not raised to be treated like filth. I also couldn't get it out of my thoughts that love is built on friendship, friendship is built on trust and if I couldn't trust him I could never really love him. More and more I realized that I was the only one who would take care of me and I had to do a better job of it than I was doing. So, even though I knew that I may spend the rest of my life alone, I chose to divorce him and have him leave.
Since I have been divorced and living alone I have been scared. I have been really really sad. I have been lonely. But even with all of this, I have never regretted my decision and I have found a calmness that I had lost with him.
Know that I am sending you best wishes and the hope that you will find your answers and solutions.
I used to find alot of evidence of using the computer for porn. Never anything about contact with anyone else just still photo sites. I had a very hard time coming to terms with it. Like other things in my life I could live with it or not. I am making an ASSUMPTION here (usually means making an a** of myself) but it is probably a rare man that hasn't peeked at one of those sites at least once, again a question of what is excess? Just my thoughts, and support to know you are not alone, I've been there too.
My husband said the same sort of things when I discovered porn stuff on his computer. That it was spam that he immediately deleted, that it was a virus that someone put on his computer, etc. all viable excuses and things that REALLY happen.
My husband is very careful to lead a totally seperate life from mine, he has his own computer that I do not use and I have my own that I bought for myself. I am sure this is no accident...sigh.
Anyway, I caught him since he was using the internet addresses that our cable modem provider gave us. We both have computers hooked into a hub and use the same service. They gave us three email addresses with a very secure virus screen. He left it all to me to hook up and had no idea that I had all of the passwords.
He told me that he used only his email from work for work stuff and was doing nothing else on the computer (trying to throw me off the trail) and I believed him. I was going through my computer papers and considered throwing the sheet with passwords, etc. away since I did not use mine either. I just checked to see if they were still open out of curiosity before I threw everything away. I was so incredibely shocked to see what he was doing on there! Oh, what a shamless liar he was!
Nothing illegal, but all sorts of porn sites, emails from women in the porn pictures, emails from women in other countries looking for sex partners that would transport them here and send money. Love letters from several specific women too that he had the porn pictures from. Also many very sexually exlicit emails from women he was having "internet sex" with...sigh.
He was seriously into the whole thing.
I could not have been more shocked! My husband is the total opposite of someone who you think would be into porn. He is a a traditional college professor, the absent minded type who has his nose into books constantlyk, never swears or anything, is totally respectful of women, his only vice is alcholism.
I printed out evidence and confronted him. I will never understand how skillfully he lied his way out of that, not knowing I had evidence and had broken into his email account. He looked me right in the eye and told me that he did not know how I knew, but that someone had sent him a virus accidentally that put porn on his computer and that he kept deleting it and it kept popping back up. He SWORE by everythign sacred that it was the truth...sigh.
Well...I actually got a friend to help me spy on him on a deeper level and am still shocked today about what else I found out. We separated for a year over this stuff.
What I found out was so terrible, but it was just the tip of the iceburg.
After that I did a lot of research into porn addiction and found out that it is very common to be sucked into it and many many otherwise upstanding men are. It is a cancer in our society. The anonymity of the internet makes it available to all discreetly, whereas in former generations most men could overcome their curiosity since they had to go to seedy neighborhoods to lowlife stores to get that stuff and had to worry about who would see them.
Also, porn is becoming more and more accepted, sigh. I shared how hurt I was about what my husband was doing and a couple of people told me that "men are just into porn" and that I had to accept it...sigh.
I eventually confronted my husband with all of the evidence I had collected and he was deeply ashamed and honestly told me how it started with a virus and he had gotten sucked into it all. I believe that but was deeply dissapointed to know the depths he had gone to.
He says he has struggled to overcome his addiction, and I guess I believe him. At least we are clear about my feeligns about it.
My experience is that usually what you find is just the tip of the iceburg...
Everything is not "OK" now. I have seen an ugly side of my husband I never knew existed and am truly alarmed at his ability to shamelessly lie when caught. From now on nothign anyone ever tells my about my husband no matter how bad is beyond belief. I can't say any longer that I "know" him and he would never do such a thing. I really do feel sad to realize that I don't know him at all and that his morals and scruples are shady and slippery and he will easily resort to lying to save face. That is not exactly someone I can respect.
Porn is NOT a normal part of a man's existance and the professionals that I consulted and read about all say it is very damaging both to the man and the women in his life. I think this is like saying that "men just drink" and I have to accept it as my husband says...sigh.
I know it was good that I confronted my husband very firmly. Not in a controlling way, but more honest. I told him how shocked I was at the duplicity of his life. How he 'pretended" to be so upright and honest and respectful of women then had that secret shameful pastime. That seems to have gotten to him, but I will never know.
Personally I think it is another side effect of his alcholism. He seems to sink furhter and further down in his morals, ethics, beliefs, and habits as he slides deeper and deeper into alcholism. It is almost a giving up on life in general and so a giving up on leading an honorable life. Life is more about how to work and get drunk now, then being a good person.
I pity him...it can't feel good to know how far you have fallen from where you started out.
My special thanks to all of you who took the time to answer.
It is uncanny to me that a man like my A could harbor any dark secrets at all. He is elegant, charming, handsome, well-behaved, law-abiding, funny, gentle, caring, and just all-around "good." If you knew him, he would be the last person you would consider to be "keeping secrets."
Then there is the drinking man...wooo hooo...we won't go there. He's been sober a year after a huge slip. He had 25 years sober before that. Just goes to show all of you, the years sober don't guarantee anything. It truly is "one day at a time."
Meantime, life goes on.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
? Grrrrr 
....... Hope you find the answers you're looking for.
