The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I went to my first f2f meeting last night…people were incredibly warm and welcoming but honestly I was left wondering if I ought to go to an AA. Not instead of Al-Alon, but in addition to. Because although I definitely have al-anon type problems, what is primary for me in the short term…what is acute for me right now is my addiction to the alcoholic. The relationship when it’s in this phase of the cycle…well I need to break the cycle and I am addict type problems doing this.
I am not going to call, but then I do. I draw a line, but then I cross it. And I don’t see a difference between the A and myself. He’s not supposed to drink a beer…but then he does. I am not supposed to cycle back, but then I do.
So I came home with literature from the first meeting and it seemed very geared towards living with alcoholism. Well, I am no so sure that’s what I want! I want to get OUT. I want to get totally away.
I don’t have a standing pattern with addicts. Oh I know some of them, but I rarely partner with them and when I have, it is not for long! I have some addicted friends as well, but accept them as is (or get out of the relationship). IOW, I am not really a “fixer” by nature. But this one man is different. He has me completely befuddled because he is so FINE, sober. He truly is a Dr. Jekyll / Mr Hyde. He goes from offering me a situation that is incredibly healing and nurturing to throwing me under the bus with pretty much the first beer. And he cycles every 2 months!
So at what point, do I say “to hell with this?” When he’s drinking he rejects me completely, while holding me at the same time. You know. Manipulation!! He sends me off having a pretty good idea I won’t go. And we just cycle around like this again and again.
He’s been drinking this time for 3 weeks. He has a history of 13 years sober which makes it hard to give up on him. He did it once, he can do it again. So right now he just wants to drink unimpeded. He wants to drink like a train and he doesn’t care what happens to me.
However, right before this most recent spill he spent 2 ½ months sober and remodeled my entire kitchen…redid it from the walls out, while co-originating various other upgrades…all the while treating fabulously and I swear it’s like he does this so he can go off and drink, knowing how loyal I am…I am very loyal, and he is confident he can get back on the wagon in time…before I actually get away.
Several times in the past, I have gone on dates with other men. When he’s drinking, he pushes me away. He suggests this. Then he sobers up and says, “what the hell did I do?’
Ack!
So anyway, we are separated now but I find it so hard to believe. For one thing we always separate, but never get anywhere. He stays on my mind all day and vice versa. Even totally polluted he takes steps to let me know he’s around. And it’s all seems so stupid to me, because he obviously wishes to be sober. 13 years, then he fell off the wagon and he’s now drank off and on (more on than off) for 2. And every time we wind up back together both of us enormously grateful.
So I wonder how to stop the pattern. I know it’s hopeless to be around him when he’s drinking so I remove myself completely these days and he helps me do this. He throws me out for the most part. “I love you, you’re the best woman I’ve ever had, or will ever have, but….” But I wonder if I should not get myself to open AA meetings, the same way an alcoholic does rather than drinking. Go to a meeting, rather than call him, I mean. And try to tough it out.
Because a friend told me once the only way this would end is if I ended it. Because he’s weak! Well I’m weak too!! But how does this sound to y’all? Do I try to fight my way out for good?
I am confused because each time he’s sober, it’s better / longer than the time before, but the drinking side has escalated as well!!
I spoke with him this morning. We are both suffering, apart, but can do nothing about it as long as he drinks. And he intends to drink at the moment. And I am worried for me. I pretty much think I should get out now, (if I can!) before I am in even deeper (and I’m up to neck as it is). And before tragedy strikes because this seems inevitable to me.
I guess I have choices. I don’t live with him and there are no kids involved. He told me this morning he was telling people we were done, “but I’ve said that before..”
::shakes head::
I really don’t want to lose five years in this game with him. OTOH, he does know how to *not drink.
Can anyone get a read on this? I know some of you have been at this for years. You must have heard it all, so what’s this sound like? I can't get a hack on reality that'll last for more than a few hours.
First of all, Dog, - breathe - slow - breathe - remember no matter what I will be ok - even if you don't believe it - (Fake it til you make it) say it out loud - No matter what I will be Ok.
You have touched on so many issues in your post that I think you may be a little overwhelmed at the moment. Al-Anon is very much about One Day at A time and One issue at a time. Because for me, if I try to deal with everything at once, I go crazzzzy, and nothing gets accomplished.
So you made it to your first meeting, congrats!! - that is a big step. You probably were given some info to read, if so take your time and read that. If not, just take some time and read some of the stuff here. Recovery is a process. For me, I thought I had to have the answers now, but it didn't work out that way.
I would try to keep going to those meetings, (my home group suggest that you try six meetings before you make a decision if this is for you or not), read al-anon info, visit this web site, talk with healthy recovery friends, try to focus on you.
Don't give up before the miracle happens in You,
Glad you are part of MIP,
Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
Stick with it...As you grow in Alanon you will get stronger, understand the reasons why you aren't able to leave for now, and gain the strength to do so. Alanon isn't REALLY geared on how to live with the the A's. It tries to encompass everyone in all situations with alcoholism. It includes those that date them, live with them, married to them, children of , have alcoholic children etc.
What it does do is help you discover YOU. Once we understand why we do what we do, it is much easier to change that behavior.
Go ahead and attend AA meetings, that's not a bad thing either. Do both if you want. You just can't get too much info.
Keep coming back! Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
You're at the right place, being in Al-Anon.... most of us are, or have been, "addicted to" either our alcoholics, the disease, or both over the years.... Al-Anon helps us work on ourselves, so that we can get US healthier, and stop being so dependant upon sick, unhealthy people and situations.... that does not "have to" mean leaving them (some do, some don't), but it does mean we learn to take care of ourselves better...
The roller coaster you described in your post is quite typical.... don't know if that makes you feel better or not, but it is pretty similar to many of our experiences as well.... Addicts tend to be eerily similar in their overall actions....
Glad you are here, and keep coming back..
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Tom - I've read enough here to glean the situtions are all very like. And I like your posts very much. I think I just want the door!! I want out. I don't want to have an "A"!
And I am fairly scared I will be right where I am today in five years if I don't find a way to slip out. he's got such a hook in me. I dig it out and if he doesn't put it back in - I do it for him. Cripes, man? What am I going to do about this.
it just seems pure "addict" to me. He gets relief from that first Corona, the way I do from the sound of his voice. But two steps later, you're right back in the black hole. He doesn't really chase me. I am drawn to him, the same way the bottle sits on the shelf and the addict goes for it! I don't want to be an addict. I want to be free.
So does this sound coherent? I think I need to get sober and stay that way. Overpower the part of me that wishes to make a deal, postpone the separation which seems no different and an alcoholic planning to quit tomorrow. Isn't it harder the longer you postpone??
I don't know if it gets harder or easier the longer you postpone it.... I do know, from experience, that I wish I had acted a long time before I did, but we also have to be aware that we are typically "right where we need to be" and are capable of being, in our own recovery. You sound like you definitely want out, but keep find yourself getting dragged back in... I did that for about five or more years!! One tool that I used, that really helped, was to journal. Writing each day about my feelings, how things actually were, etc, was a great help. When we don't journal, our emotions end up taking over, especially when we start missing our A's (or more correctly, missing what we USED to have with our A's), and then our decisions become skewed.
Try writing out some goals or needs for you personally.... maybe not so much focus on the "stay vs. leave" decision, per se, but know exactly what needs you have, and what you want out of a relationship. Then you can use that to measure up against whether or not your current relationship meets these needs, or (realistically) if it ever will meet these needs.... If you start any of your answers with "when he is not drinking"...... you'll know that you are getting away from reality, and back into hopes of better things... Separating the "whats" from the "whys" is also of huge importance, and will help you stay in the reality....
Hope that helps
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
My story is alot like YOURS. My A came back into my life after 10 years separated. We met when we were young and gorgeous, (1996) fell instantly in love with each other, he was in Hawaii in the ARMY I was in Ohio, we met on his leave, then I went to Hawaii for a couple of weeks to be with him 6 months after he went back. We sent letters, gifts, cards and called one another. It was sweet and romantic. When I left Hawaii we started making plans for our future. A month later he broke up with me, said I was too serious for him.
A month later, after being more depressed than ever before in my life, I met someone new. A year later I married him. All through the marriage I thought of "A". I kept pictures of him, his letters, my Hawaii brochures even my airline tickets, all the gifts he sent me and little momentos from our time in Hawaii together, hidden. He was my "secret garden" you know, like the song from "Jerry McGuire". I found out in October of 2005 my husband had been having mulitple affairs for 6 1/2 years, filed for divorce and IMMEDIATELY went looking for "A". We re-united after he received a letter I mailed to him c/o of his mother. All of the passion, love and intimacy returned immediatley, like NO time had passed at all.
3 weeks into our relationship, I discovered and he readily admitted he was an alcoholic, I knew I better RUN, but I love him SO much, had for a decade and I just "knew" in my heart that I had enough love for him to get him sober and enough faith in God to see us both through the rocky times.
I was SO wrong.
When he was drinking all he wanted was his booze and loser friends. When he was sober all he wanted was me. He was rarely ever sober. He did go to AA and got better for a little while, but it did fall apart very recently. He ended up using me as entertainment for his social security collecting, drunk, pill popping, section 8 housing living, dirtball, loser friends by laughing at me when I would call him, desperate WHY are you drinking with them? where are you? who are you with? He would hand his friends the phone, most of the time they would hang up on me. He would always kiss and make up with me the next day "I'm sorry baby, I'll get better. Dont give up on me." and "I dont feel like I deserve you." and "You are way too good to me, I cant believe you put up with me." and "I love you girl, I do love you, damn it I love you so hard so much, I am so f'ing sorry." More lately it was cruel and humiliating. He told me that "You just dont turn me on anymore." and "I dont love you in a sexual way."
It wont get better without AA, the 12 steps and setting REAL boundaries.
My boundaries are:
if he is drinking or has been drinking we cannot see one another or talk on the phone unless he needs a safe ride home, to HIS place not mine
he has to go to as many AA meetings as possible during the week
he has to remove all the triggers from his life such as ALL of his friends and his cousin and uncle, NO alcohol in his home, no bars or clubs of ANY kind for ANY reason
he has to work the 12 steps
So far, it is not worth it to him to be with me to accomadate my boundaries, so WE are NOT together anymore.
It is tough, I am also addicted to my A. I get up about everyday bawling my eyes out, I have sent desperate letters, called his phone - he ignores my calls - and I leave agonizing voice mails begging him to please call me please agree to see me just to talk telling him I love him so much and he is killing me, I sent text messages, went to his house...you name it. I was - still am but I am in my own recovery and doing well - a mess. Through Al Anon, friends, prayer and family I have managed to not call him, drive past his house, send a letter or a text message for 9 days.
The desperation DOES subside BUT you have to set boundaries for your A and for yourself or you wont be able to get healthy OR live with your A or yourself.
Read my old posts...you will see a basket case, turning into a normal person again, regaining my self confidence, self respect and learning to live without the misery of alcoholism in my life.
I miss my A and love him with all my heart. I would do just about anything to make it work, but the first of the 12 steps tells us we have no control and our lives are unmanageable...so true.
Please IM me anytime, continue to post, be honest all the time, you will do better, you will recover, you will smile again, laugh again and mean it. PROMISE!
LOL, my A and I also cycle. However I am finding that I am getting stronger as I cycle! I have to tell myself, I am not perfect but a work in progress. I have set some boundaries but they don't include what he can or can not do when it comes to his addiction. A couple of my boundaries include, if he is upset about anything, work, home, the kids, at me, he has to talk to me in a respectful way, no cussing or slamming things or I will not stay in the room, house, area, etc. to listen to him. I no longer accept (haven't in a couple years) an apolgy that is alcohol/drug related. (i.e. he stayed out all night with his buddy, came home stumbling drunk etc) When he is drunk/high I no longer will have any conversation with him, it is the drug/alcohol talking not my husband. I will not listen to his critisim of how I handle the kids when he is on a roll, meaning I have told him that when he is home and actively parenting on a regular basis then we can talk about my parenting skills, however since most of the time I am married yet a single parent I am doing the best I can with what I have. And, he is to take his weekly spending money from his paycheck before depositing in the bank. He writes NO CHECKS and has NO ATM card. These are just a few of mine.....oh yeah, if he spends his weekly money before payday, I no longer "find" money to replace what he has spent. He just goes without. I didn't know what a boundary was before Alanon, when it came to my A. I never wanted him upset or mad at me. I was good with boundaries when it came to my co-workers, boss, my family, my kids, now I am learning that I can also have boundaries in my relationship with my A. Hang in there. Be gentle with yourself.
All right! Thanks everyone for posting back. I’ve brainstormed with friends all day and come up with an angle that just may work for me. To get me out, that is. For good.
A pal of mine is a twin. He has called his brother ‘amoral” in the past, and I take his word on that. He thinks the man I love is dead. Dead in the bottle, and this hideous person is here in his place. He suggested I come to terms with this…
And he said, ‘What if I die? What are you going to do? Call my brother? That’s not going to help you. Just because we look alike....”
And he’s right. I call my A and not only is he not the man I love, he’s someone I detest. He says heinous things about not just me, but his daughters for chrissakes. Things he won’t remember, but I have to absorb.
And if I tell him what he said… denial! Or anger! You guys know the drill. So there is no use calling this jackass, is there?
And my friend suggested I ask you pros something so I will. He wanted to know what you could tell me about being “ok” in certain circumstances – if I leave. For example, if he dies.
“If he dies, will you feel that you’d done everything you could have, Dog?’ he asked.
“Yes.”
“And if he kills someone else, out driving around?”
That one threw me. See, I’ve never confronted my A in the 2 years I’ve known him up until this last time. And this time I’ve given it too him with both barrels….intervention style, I guess you could say. And I did bring up his tendency to drive around drunk. And he never used to do this. Or drink in front of kids for that matter. He was 13 years sober, remember? But over the last two years he’s just slid and slid and slid. So the question is around protecting myself. Because the odds of tragedy are very high.
Er.. he can’t go another year. He doesn’t have the money and he has no family to fall back on, so he’s looking at total annihilation. And maybe you can see why I pitched for so long. Nasty consequences for some guy who managed 13 years sober, you think?
But anyway, it’s very likely I am going to get a phone call at some point with the news. Of his stroke. His heart attack. His accident. His whatever. And I want to feel okay.
So tell me. Am I clear here? Because I am thinking to put an ad in the personals and don’t look back. Leave the dead, lie you know? Go join the living.
When I first started my step work, I read step one as being a sign of weakness, that I didn't actually control the outcome.... When you get right down to the facts, and we ARE powerless over others, certainly the A's drinking and other behaviors - this fact is VERY empowering, and freeing.
If I am powerless over the A, then it goes hand in hand that I am not to blame for their actions, their choosing their addiction, etc., etc..... it becomes a freeing of the bondage, that we have created for ourselves, with respect to us 'taking on' their responsibilities....
This sounds really harsh, but on the question of "what if he drives drunk and kills somebody?" - my answer would be - "yes, it could happen.... but I cannot control or influence that outcome".
Now, there are "some" exceptions to this - we need to set boundaries whereby our A's don't drive drunk with our kids, etc.... Some of us have phoned the police when we know our A's are intoxicated behind the wheel, etc.... It's a fine line sometimes, but at some point we have to free ourselves from our tendency to "take on" what is truly their responsibility.
Take care
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Thanks for responding Tom. I’m trying to get it. Better today than yesterday. I have more clarity. It’s been like a blender these last few days…everything is so acute because I have the sense that this time is the last time. I don’t think my A is going to pull up this time, and in fact there is strong evidence he doesn’t think he is, either.
He has been running around putting things right if you know what I mean. Like someone who knows they’re not long for this world. This last time he got sober…well, he did a lot of things for me. He made amends you could say and when he’d done all he could do….when he’d put it right, he sunk back into the bottle…waaaaaaaaaaay into the bottle.
Last night I was reading about stage 3 alcoholism and he’s got all the signs. It really seems he’s going down and soon.
About me, well I am getting very clear on the idea I can’t stop this knife from falling. So I am trying to distance myself…detach…whatever I can think of to stop myself from calling him with yet another plea. And I am bracing myself for the call that will very likely come.
And I am trying not to torture myself asking “why”? And I am trying to reach out and make new contacts…contacts with people who aim to live, like I do. I am trying to let go.
And re: hurting others, I have already lived this when I was 17. I had an alcoholic boyfriend who drove drunk, got in an accident that left a mother with two young children, brain dead.
And back then, I fought the same way I am now…to get out of that situation. And I made it! And I avoided alcoholics for nearly 30 years!!! Until I met this guy. Literally the best man I’ve ever had in my life. He’s been my lover and my best friend and now look what happens. All those years of sobriety…one drink and he winds up in the morgue.
You said it all when you said you want to get OUT - to get totally away. You know this relationship is unhealthy, unacceptable, unmanageable, unreliable, unstable. There's a point you have to come to before you can actually do it. I left my husband of 31 years - the man I've only dated my whole life - because I realized all the love I have for him isn't enough to change him. He still hasn't changed after 3 months. He has said he understands why I left and that he is abusing but still he does nothing to change himself. I can't change him but I can control my life. It was the hardest thing I've ever done but I can actually relax again. I have a 16 year old daughter, too, who lives with me. She has thanked me repeatedly for getting her out of that environment. It is so worth it.
