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level.
I would like to start a discussion about detachment and boundaries. I believe there must be a subtle art to both, but I haven't figured it out.
Several months ago I attempted to set my boundaries by providing my AH a list of expectations. There was nothing radical on the list simply that he shower and dress every weekday, go to work and be productive, and to work his program to the best of his ability. In return I would detach from him by not asking him where he goes and if he has been drinking. I don't ask him if he went to a meeting. If he doesn't go to work (we own our own business), I don't say anything. I don't take care of him when he is sick.
Needless to say he hasn't been to work in almost a month and he sleeps until 11 most days. Sometimes he will fake that he is going to work, but he doesn't shower so it is a giveaway that he is not.
I wonder if he is interpretting my detachment as one less consequence to his drinking, therefore making his life of slow suicide a little easier. Also, how do I enforce boundaries without coming off as controlling? My head is spinning!
Any examples or education in these topics would be helpful to many I am sure. Thanks
for me setting boundries is something i do just for me. they are usually things that i need to make me happy. but they are also flexible. so if they are not working for me, making me feel more comfortable in a situation then i know i can change them. cause they're mine and for me to keep me safe and sane. i told my ah once (or 100 times) years ago that all he had to do was make 600 a week and i would be happy. there would be no stress and life would be good- because i would be happy- because he would be doing what i wanted him to do therefore i would be happy. he was actually thrilled to hear this because now he had something he could do to make everything better and we could then live happily ever after. he did make the money. i was still unhappy which lead to disillusionment on both our parts and a downward spiral.it has taken me years to grasp the concept of boundries. i still bring it up alot at meetings. i think boundries are a delicate balance. if we swing to far to one side we are too uncompromising and we miss out on alot of things and love. if we swing too far the other way we are doormats. my biggest one lately has been saying "i don't know" when i truly don't know. in the past i would let the other's person desire for the answer (wether it's what are you doing tomarrow or should i leave him) push me to give the answer that i thought they wanted to hear. now i can just say i don't know. and sometimes i'll say i'll let you know. sure there's shock and dismay that i'm not solving the problem--lol-- but i am more comfortable. sorry for rambling but this has made me think again where i need to set some boundries- especially around unacceptable behaviors. thank you and good luck keep comming!
Boundaries are an agreement with yourself as to what type of behavior you will or will not accept from others. Boundaries are meaninglessless unless you follow through with a consequence. They are not put in place to manipulate others, but to protect yourself.
With ALL boundaries there MUST be consequences.
Example: If you verbally abuse me, I will leave the room. (action/consequence) If you continue to do so and disrespect my boundary I will look at my options, including leaving the relationship. (action/consequences)
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Great topic. These are things I've learned, and how I apply boundries. First off, Detachment is not something I bargin with, I try my best not to bargin with my A husband anyhow, it's useless. I detach for me, not for him. It helps me keep my serenity, it's an acceptance that I can't make him (or any other person) conform to what I want. The more I try to get them to be what I expect them to be, the more my serenity flies out the window.
Expectations are premeditated resentments. So, if I come out saying if you do "A", then I'll do "B" and we will have peace (because you're doing what I want) I'm going to resent the heck out of my A husband because even if he wants to do "A" (and he may even try for a while) the nature of his disease is that he's going to put Alcohol first. So I'd get pissed, because what I was asking was pretty simple, normal even .... for a non-alcohlic. Couldn't I expect the reasonable?? Sadly, from an alcoholic, no. So I detach, I live and let live. I can no more make my A take a shower than I can get him to quit drinking. Please try not to fall into the trap of saying "Yes, but..." Here is a place you can ask yourself to Check Your Motives. Why are you trying to get your A to do what you want? Because if he'd do these things you'd be happy? I love what Serendipity had to say about getting what she wanted and was still not happy. I've found this to be so true, we think if everything works how we want it, there will be bliss. Happiness is not dependent on another person. You can have happiness/joy anyhow, whether he's drinking or sleeping all day. Your happiness depends on you. To me this was one of the greatest things I learned in Al-anon. I could be happy, I let go of the conditional happiness. The I'd be happy if... and opened myself up to the joys around me that I'd been missing because my focus was on my A instead of on me.
Boundries. To me it is easier to say what they aren't, they aren't if you don't conform to my will I will zap you with ill treatment/coldness etc. Boundries don't include punishments, if you don't do this then I'm going to punish you with that. Boundries are not fixed, because my life is forever evolving, changing and so are my boundries.
Boundries are there to protect me, define what is acceptable/unacceptable. Yes for me they do involve consequences in a way. For example if my A comes here and he is loud, cursing and disruptive then I'm going to tell him to leave, if he won't leave I will call the police. He knows this, I've had to ask him to leave, and there have been times where I just say if you continue you'll need to leave-- he knows I mean it and if he is able, he brings it down a notch or two. There are other things I have in place as boundries, they are what I define as unacceptable, I won't be cursed or yelled at, not taking verbal abuse is high on my list. If it starts I won't listen to it, I don't have to. Boundries can be as simple as saying Dinner is at 5:30, when it is ready and the A's late, sit down and eat without him. It can be, I wash clothes on Monday, if you do not collect up you clothes I will not wash them. Let him wash them. For me boundries have removed many of my resentment because I was able to say things just like this and follow thru with it. And with boundries, you must be able to follow thru with what you say or they mean nothing.
Everyone's boundries are tied to what they can live with, what they find acceptable/unacceptable. What is acceptable to one person may not be to another. You decided what you are able to live with.
This is starting to look like a book, lol, so I'll stop now Again, this is a great topic.
for me boundries i needed to set were what i needed for myself for me and for myself to be a "good" mother. i did not want myself or my children to have to live with an ah/af who packed up and left everytime he was mad and angry. i did not want me or the kids to have to worry about my ah's sobriety when the kids wanted a ride somewhere. i wanted a h who was truthful even in his disease as i was going crazy with lies/truth. i sat and explained to my husband that i loved him very much, but i didn't want to / couldn't live that way nor did i want my kids to live that way. he understood. the next time he left in a drunken rage (feb 14th) that was it. he is still living at his sisters. he is still determined not to drink any more. but there are relapses. i do not feel the boundries i need can be met. he still comes over, we have had some very nice times together alone and with the kids. it is all very hard. but i do believe it is the right thing for me and the kids - i continue to reap the benfits as my own sanity continues to get stronger and i continue to provide a more stable environment for our family. thanks so much for the topic and giving me an opportunity to think about this and grasp my own place. thanks - quest
I agree with the pp have been saying about boundaries and detachment. You can't set a boundary for someone to take a shower because it has nothing to do with your actions. Like someone else said-boundaries have a cause and effect system and they are about you-not the other person. You can set a boundary that you will not tolerate him not working at your business you have together. But what is the consequence? Can you fire him? Can you hire a replacement? Can you sell the business or just keep all the profits? Of course it's gross if he doesn't bathe regularly. (I have been there BTW-used to live with a guy that literally didn't shower for 5 days and he did construction in the South) GROSS! I just asked him if he knew when his last shower was and then informed him when he couldn't guess when it was. He decided to take a shower and I didn't tell him he had to do it either.
Thank you so much, I have a much better understanding now. Boundaries are about me. As a matter of fact everything I do fundamentally has to be about me, for I am the only person I have control over. Reflecting, I have set boundaries, for example, I won't sleep in the same bed with him if he has been drinking because he snores and keeps me awake, and I won't take his empty wine glasses and beer bottles to the kitchen.
But occassionally, when I see him doing so poorly, I forget that. We had a very nice talk yesterday and I explained to him that I have no anger over his drinking, but I fear for his life (he is also very overweight with extremely high cholesterol, but he can't take meds because of liver problems). He started crying and said he is afraid for his life too and is having a lot of trouble facing the predicament he has put himself in. Talking to him when I was in a calm, serene state of mind helped him understand that I was not "chasing a scared gerbil," simply expressing my feelings as his wife.
Again, this is a great topic.