The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Maybe it is because everything I am doing right now is "new" to me, but I am feeling between a rock and hard place right now.
It is the end of the school year and it looks like there is a possiblity my AW's possition may be eliminated, ok, well they may find something else for her as they have always assured her of that in the past. But she says the principal is really avoiding her on the issue right now.
My A-Son who is 21 works for another school and got a bad review because he missed a lot of days and they are not guarenteeing his possition for next year. His fiance who he lives with is in the same boat, they are not guarenteeing her possition either. <sigh>
Now, history tells me that if he looses this job he will expect us to pay all his bills til he finds a job he likes. He has never quit a job, he has always been let go due to conflicts of schedule or personalities. And we have always bailed him out.
None of this has acturally happened, I am trying to live in the day and say maybe it won't, but in the back of my mind I feel like if I want anything to be different this time then I need to crate some plans (A,B,C...)
Probably the biggest conflict is going to be with my AW, who will give him every dime we have then blame him for us having no money... been there, many times. We share a bank account, which gives her full access. It would be a huge trust issue for me to leave it that way if all this comes to pass.
Last night she said "... every time I try to make plans something screws it up" She was drunk so I didn't want to get into a argument about that, but my assumption is she is talking about her leaving. She is planning on it and that would throw a kink into it if we pay a bunch of his bills.
I want to support him, I don't want to provoke her, but I am not going to end up in bankruptcy because he is irresponsable.
Any ESH would really help.
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
Yikes... I gotta watch myself on getting preachy on this one....
My experience - big red flag if you have open access to your finances with an active alcoholic... is there steps you can take, call it a "financial boundary", whereby you can protect some of your savings? To me, this would be the first step necessary.... If you succeed at that, then your wife has the choices available of enabling/helping out your 21-year old with his finances with HER money, and you also have choices... It would seem to me, that if a 21-year old is losing his job because of not showing up, general lack of responsiblity, etc., then it is a perfectly fair and rational "boundary" for you to NOT plan on paying all his debts.... Otherwise, you are remaining in that cycle, very much like the alcoholic cycle, where your actions are interrupting his need to feel consequences for his behavior....
Just my opinion
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Like canadianguy, I don't want to sound preachy either, but it's high time you quit bailing this one out! Enabling is enabling whether it is with an A or anyone else. I know it's hard to deny a child of our flesh, but it's better for you, him, and the rest of the family if you do.
Good luck; stick to your guns on this one. In the long run, none of you won't regret it.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I agree with Tom on both of his points. I know you want to help your son, but he needs to hit that point where he knows he is an adult and has to take responsibility for himself--I know it's easier said than done, but the sooner it happens wouldn't that be what is best for him?
As far as money and wife goes. I have my own account of which my husband (my a) doesn't have access to. Actually he has no account whatsoever. I even have two savings accounts in my children's names which he has no access to. He mentioned the other day how he would like to open up an account, because he has been trying to establish credit again. He said he wanted to open up a joint account--I just looked at him, I couldn't decide on a tactful way to "You have got to be nuts if you think I'm going to give you access to all of our money!!!!!" He could tell something was going through my head-then he said don't tell me you're really thinking about giving me access to the money. I smiled and said "there is no way I'm letting you at the money, but I was trying to find a nice way to say it."
Your posts here have been great. Keep working this program and you will find the answers you need. I wish you luck. I don't see what you are thinking about as prjecting, I do see it as protecting and preparing yourself.
My husband was an alcoholic. His daughter age 23 was also an alcoholic. His son age 30 was ACOA. The son was very responsible, worked, earned lots and lots and lots of money, was married, could have affored anything he wanted, yet, chose to live with him in-laws for free in their home. My AH couldn't understand why they made this choice and it embarrassed him. When the son would call asking his father to contribute toward the building of a new house so they wouldn't require a mortgage, my AH refused to help.
His A daughter worked as a waitress/bartender and lost her job constantly due to her alcoholism, her behaviors, her temper. She never made much money and she was always calling for a "loan". My AH gave her money to repair a car and told her he expected her to pay it back. She didn't. I gave her money to pay her rent for one month and told her I expected her to pay it back $5 a month until it was paid. She didn't pay it back either even though I made her sign a note.
When the AD would call to request additional funds, I would tell her that I couldn't loan her more money until the first loan was paid off. I figured that was a cheap way to get out of the constant money pit I saw before me.
I never combined my finances with my AH. Everything was always in my name alone. I did this to procect myself from his irresponsible spending, and I did this because I worried about being sued in the event he was driving drunk.
Now that we are divorcing after 1 year of marriage, it has also protected me in this arrena.
The one thing that sticks out the most to me is when you said your son will expect you to pay his bills.
I laugh, because I have an 18 year-old son who seems to have some certain similar beliefs. (Of course, in NYS law, I legally do have to support him until he is 21) But through this program I'm learning that HIS expectations are not necessarily reality. Because he expects me to do something does not obligate me to do it.
He was really surprised one day when I told him no, I was not going to do something for him. He looked at me like, "Who are you and what have you done with my mother?" It took all I had not to break out laughing and at the same time all the restraint I could muster to not cave in. For years I've been doing for him and doing for him and he got really comfortable knowing mommy dearest would bail him out yet again. He's starting to feel a little uncomfortable lately.
But if he does lousy at his job, that's not MY mess to clean up. If he ruins his credit, it's not MY mess to clean up. If he gets into trouble, again, not MY mess. It's really, really, really hard sometimes not to step in and do for him what he needs to be allowed to do by on his own.
I love him with all my heart (even though there are days I really want to just squish him like a bug) and I have no problem letting him know that. But I'm learning that loving him is letting him fall on his face if that's what it takes. My job as a mom is to prepare him to be a responsible adult. I have to remember that a LOT!
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to say all that, as apparently I needed that reminder to myself today!
Take care, and my thoughts and prayers are with you.
i can respond from the child's point of view. i am not an alcoholic but i grew up in an alcoholic home and married an alcoholic. i have never been financially independent. at first my mother liked me being dependent on her. she owns me. at this point it has damaged our relationship beyond repair. i am divorcing my husband and figuring out how to do this independently. she has no respect for me and i have none for her. on her side it's because i ask and on my side it's because she gives. there were so many times that i would ask because i needed to and just pray that she'd say no. she hasn't yet. then she beats me over the head with the fact that i'm an idiot and loser and an immature brat. mind you i am not sitting around eating bon bons and wearing diamonds and furs. we are so far below the poverty line we can't even see it. regardless i am changing and i am no longer comfortable with any of this. not that i ever was. so, sometimes not helping really is the loving thing to do. i wish that she could have been there for me insted of throwing money at me then resenting me for it. i am doing the best i can with what i've got and i am learning to do better. differently. i hope this helps- different perspective. good luck and love him anyway.
Expects you to pay his bills, ha! Excuse me but you are an adult that has made his own bed.
Yjay would be enabling, and people in Al-Anon does not promote enablling. If she chooses to leave him, you can support him in that area, but paying his bills when he could be working at Burger King is another.
What you certain;y could do is encourage him to have a plan A, B and C just as we do as Alanons. He is kinda a double plan worker right know.
Good Luck.
josey
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Julianne - It's best to move on. You cannot look back in anger in life. It's too short
