Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

tiredtonite · Veteran Member

Self Respect

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

((((TT)))))). Though she is not responsible for her sons bad behavior, had that been me, and my son did that, I would have called him out about being rude to my friend but she didnt do it for whatever reason and then you brought it up in the email. If she is any kind of friend she will be kind and supportive of you and agree with you that he was out of line and that she wont let it happen again or something to that effect but to acknowledge you, if she does not, then maybe she Doesnt value your feelings that much? Itll be interesting to see what she does in response but I know if it were me and I failed to call my son out for his bad behavior and my girlfriend writes to me about it, I would be making amends and saying something to the fact that I am grateful you were honest with me and that I am sorry this happened or something I would validate your feelings. I would not just let it go or dismiss you. What happens will say a lot about your relationship

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

(((TT))) - I am sorry that your friend's adult son 'rained on the parade'....it really stinks since you and she have probably not been together because of the virus and all it includes. If you've got peace with your actions, it's all good. My experience is many that I know who don't have a program aren't very receptive to 'feelings' I have. They just are not tooled to respond as we are, which always gives me gratitude.

I have some friends/family that truly are in denial when it comes to their kids. They see perfect, in spite of obvious flaws - I call it parental blinders. I can tell you as a mom, I'd have called my son out instantly. But, I have absolutely no issue in confrontation when necessary. I've had to learn that many are not comfortable with confrontation and prefer to just 'opt out'.

I also can share that I would have called the boy out, guest or not. I do not allow others to talk to me in any manner other than respectful, whether I know them or not. Many people in this world will continue using bad behavior unless/until someone calls them out. I have learned that it's perfectly OK for me to say, I am not comfortable with the tone of your words or something similar - I statements, with an expression of truth. I'm just at an age and stage that I can do what's right for me even if others don't/won't.

It's not my place, choice or desire to walk on eggshells for any reason at any time any more. If asking another to respect me if a deal-breaker for a friendship, that's an unfortunate consequence. I feel that for my recovery, my mental health and my serenity, I must put me first and say what I mean, mean what I say and not say it mean. More than likely, the son was frustrated/unhappy about something well before your visit and you just were just 'wrong place, wrong time.' I am truly sorry that it disrupted your visit with your friend - we just don't get 'those' often right now!

Love and light - as always, take what you like and leave the rest!

JerryF · ~*Service Worker*~

TT the most powerful tool in my life today is the program and the tools it has used to help me grow into a supportive person regardless of how and where I am using them. Of course I falter and return to the pre-program me and I get what I use to get as before, mutual anger and disrespect, a lack of the present opportunity to be helpful and such.

My former deceased sponsor gave me a major slogan to use before anxious happenings when I wasn't sure what I could or would do...."When in doubt DON'T". The fact that his program name was Don T. still is a major nudge for me before making decisions.

He also helped me understand that the program could be used in many situations where my alcoholic/addict wasn't even around and I found that to be true. I was a behavioral health therapist who's behavior could and would cause therapist of higher status to question, "How do you do that?" meaning they would have liked to use methods that I did.

I use to engage contention and not in a manner that was contentious. Some months ago my eldest alcoholic addict son refused to participate in respectful dialogue and got threatening and loud and my youngest son thought his brother needed back up. I quieted the noise and told them, "There isn't anything so crazy going on here that I cannot stop with a 911 call." They stopped and eldest left with the youngest returning the next day to make mutual amends. Today all is peaceful, loving and kind. HP likes today as we all do.

Use the program as you have been taught and practice cause it works when we work it. (((((hugs))))) smile

2HP · Senior Member

I had a similar experience in the post office yesterday, the clerk berated me for something not true. I just stood there while she yelled.

after leaving, I recalled all the times I just sat there feeling frozen. and how often I attach an interpretation to their behavior but can I know that its true?? sometimes my brain draws the wrong conclusion.

There is a great reading in one of our readers about boundaries being like a moat surrounding a castle. usually the drawbridge is down for people to come and go. but when I need protection from someones behavior, I am responsible for pulling up the drawbridge. I protect myself from people whose values are different than mine, which CAUSE me to feel however I do. By ending or limiting contact... or however I wish to use that drawbridge, I am the one responsible for protecting me and my feelings, when they become triggered.

This is not the first time I've had trouble with the staff at this post office and if I continue to go there, I am putting myself at risk. in fact every time I walk out the door of my house, I am at risk because I cannot control how people are going to treat me on any given day.

I do love knowing - it's not personal. how anyone treats me has nothing to do with me. On my side of the street, I know who I am and that alone is my power. I cannot go around demanding that people share my values, voicing my expectations for how they should interact with their children (whose business is that?). ... playing the great director. we KNOW it would make for a much nicer world... still powerless and yes... sometimes that definitely sucks. ((hugs))

-- Edited by 2HP on Wednesday 5th of August 2020 08:27:49 AM

2HP · Senior Member

wow, GOOD for you, my friend, for having the COURAGE to change the things we can...

For the record, the drawbridge is up on my nearest post office, others nearby have no such drama. I do entertain the idea that if things are going too smoothly in my life, I will think of going there for more practice. lol

2HP · Senior Member

so sorry for the multiple shares but I do want to validate you - what happened was horribly rude and tactless. and from where I sit, their family is dysfunctional too. certainly it is something that could happen at a family gathering of mine, lol

Also want to share that I myself have been the recipient of many letters from my own sister. She believes it is "good honest communication" to let someone know how they did not meet her expectations, and pin her hurt feelings on the behavior of others.

(precisely why I need al-anon - people don't always act the way I want them to act.)

One year, my sister sent a letter to me, letting me know she was not happy about me bringing too many of my Christmas presents along for a holiday visit. (I had gotten a new wardrobe from my husband.) This caused her to feel bad since they were struggling to pay off student loans and buy a washing machine. she thought I was selfish.

My sponsor always said NEVER hang onto such letters. "Burn them" because holding on keeps negativity and resentment alive.

My sponsor also tells me to write every letter I need to write, to get it all off my chest, and THEN read all correspondence to her first, before sending it. Do you have any idea how often she asks me,

"what's your motive?" and how often it was to change someone?!! like, old habits die hard.

My healing has been so enhanced by taking recovery all the way back to childhood, and especially by the use of the big red ACA book and workbook (separate from al-anon adult children groups.)

if you, too, come from a dysfunctional family, you may want to check it out. Reading the "Laundry List" may help you decide.

-- Edited by 2HP on Wednesday 5th of August 2020 03:22:48 PM

2HP · Senior Member

(((((TT))))) your words do confuse me, you had me convinced you were taking responsibility for your feelings. You admitted some hurt feelings bubbled up during the get-together. his actions had the power to trigger old shame, embarrassment, humiliation, unworthiness, etc. etc. in you.

There is no shame in being triggered. But the program says:

When I have a problem, the problem is --."

(not them)

I love that because its so empowering. If my words appear negative to you, you are greatly misinterpreting. Think of this, if Al-anon told us to correct everyone who offends us, we would forever be at the mercy of everything on the outside, we'd forever be imprisoned - not free. We'd be dependent on whether or not we could get everyone lined up and acting "right." ( There is a great reading in our dailies about TAKING offense, we also have the option of NOT taking.)

Is the whole world supposed to change for you??

Your interpretation of "we teach others how to treat us" is misguided and I wouldn't be surprised if it came from the internet. ugh. The way to "teach" your friend and son would have been for YOU to get up and walk out, right then and there. But you sat there with with stunned feelings over their stupid oafish behavior!!! which was pathetic. But you sat there. you stayed.

Then you went home and worried they had no respect for you, blaming THEM for not respecting you while you sat there.

Dear friend, you're not mad at them, you're mad at YOU. They don't need to honor you, YOU need to honor you. The problem was you.

When you do the work completely, you will laugh at stuff like that. You will be strong like Teflon instead of Velcro, with every little offense sticking to you, losing your serenity. Forgiveness is the way to freedom. Forgiveness is the might of the mighty... its "for" you.

Please stop listening to those who say Al-anon and 'taking care of self' is about fight fight fighting for "I", "me," and "mine." That's called para-alcoholism.

Do the work and be free, my friend ((((peace))))

Maresie888 · ~*Service Worker*~

Denial is a powerful process. Personally I have tolerared extraordinary behavior from others because I had very little idea how to negotiate boundaries. I started and trued valiantly but boundaries are what we should have been examining.from an early age. For some of us, in extraordinarily dysfunctional families that does not hapoen. Then when we are adults we do not know how to negltiate them. Of course some of us, particularly myself, see these sitiations as personal shortcomimgs. They are anything but that. Really it requires immense courage to work throygh these issues. There are still people around who.want to give me an #attitude# and it is uo to me to see this as something that has very luttle to do with me. Managing my triggers is such a core part of ny program. Their #attitude# is not a reflection on me or my entire worth. The more I come out of denial the more I can see my.own attitude towards denial was not that helpful. Of course there is no.primer course on denial. Being around others is really difficult for many.of us. We are sold this #warm fuzzy# picture of family life by advertizers particularly around the holidays. Then when our own experience doesnt match up we feel lost and angry. In reality the pucture we are sold is really a mirage rather than reality I have no doubt that this issue you are dealing with has nothing to do.witn respect, validation, or how you are valued. How we negotiate certain people's denial is indeed very.vety difficult I think it is incredible that you can own your #trigger# Being around certain people who trigger me is certainly very difficult. Nevertheless I have to negotiate certain limited inteactions for now. For me me being aware is the biggesr step. Validating my feelings is crucial. I have to put aside getting validation from the source. Then I have to as my therapist puts it #unentangle# the issue. There are so many aspects to what you are dealing with. Your ability to see the #big picture# is so key. Then so is the negotiation process. Most of the negotiation is of course with myself because I always view them as #personal shortcomings# I am so thrilled to see the way you have been negotiating through this dilemma. Your thoughtfulness, kindness and compassion really ring through. I am very lucky to be in this group.and be able to discuss these difficult dilemma's Thankyou for being willing to discuss this. I am gaining so much from this discussion. Maresie

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you TT for bringing your experience, strength & hope to us. I also am learning from the discussion/posts. What moves me and makes me go 'hummmm' in recovery so often is the ESH that's shared. I see at least 3 suggested actions, yours, mine & 2HPs....I see tools suggested by Jerry & Marasie...what is the best of all for me/my growth - there's no perfect way to deal with life on life's terms and we each get to do what is best for our life and our program.

I can admit that I was not good at boundaries BR (Before Recovery). I wasn't good at designing/enforcing and I wasn't good at respecting them for others either. My pre-program solution was to get up and walk out, which lead to many broken relationships and unresolved issues. I am more likely today to Pause & Pray before I Proceed hoping to make more healthy choices and trusting in the God of my understanding.

I am grateful to be a miracle in progress, willing to keep trudging forward, one day at a time!

Maresie888 · ~*Service Worker*~

The remarks that were made were extremely offensive and unkind They were also ignorant. Someone who.presents that way is !).self absorbed 2) belligerent and 3) completely insensitive I.have to deal with that in my former roommate. I still have to deal with him because my dog is staying at his house (long story). I have come to the point where I remind myself constantly that I will not have to deal with him fir ever (all relationships are time limited) and I will not allow him to spoil my days. I.can put #filters# on.what I allow in Certainly.it was veru generous of you to bring food to share in particular good tasty food. I have no doubt this son is extremely angry that he cannot make his own choices about food. You do not have to accept his projections Of course there are extremely rude onnoxious people in this world. Some of us get our fair share of them For me i oicked what was familiar to me rude obnoxious nean spirited intomerant self absorbed people who made my life a misery. Some of those people come as a #package# deal they are attached to things we need. We do not get to #choose# every part of our lives I work pretty dilgently these days to limit how others affect me. I work with pretty stringent boundaries. I still have to deal with people whose behavior is incredibly rude, insensitive and a complete pronection. i was most certainly ruled by those kind of interactions. Now I put a lot of emphasis on being comfortable I an glad you bought these incidents up. The holidays are pretty close. They are hige trigger points for many of us. You deserve far better treatment. You deserve to be thanked and comnended for your thoughtfulness. I have no.doubt you wilk get there. Maresie

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene