Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Fedora · Senior Member

Wishing I could invite my MIL to AlAnon but ....

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Good to see you Fedora! So happy to hear that you and your boy have a common sport/activity to bond more and to enjoy!

My experience is to not engage unless I am asked. I am a big fan of, "When anyone, any where REACHES out...." simply because that's how I learned it. I've also been taught to respect and honor the 'attraction vs. promotion' aspect of our program. For me, when I want to offer advice, suggestions, expertise, etc. I refrain unless asked. This has served me well as I was one who tried to control the world BR (Before Recovery) and today, I leave all things in God's hands!

Come back more often - you've been missed! (((Hugs)))

Fedora · Senior Member

Dear Iamhere,
Hello and thank you for your insight. I have another question.

I know what is going to happen when I get home from work. He's going to corner me, complain about his mother (and probably all the rest of the world, and if it's a good day, top it off with a random comment about how he thinks about suicide), and then he'll ask me "well, what do YOU think?" Now, we have had this conversation enough that I can recite the script from memory and it always ends up with a big fight that ruins my day and night and sometimes many days and nights afterwards.

Now, tomorrow just happens to be my birthday and I am determined not to let him ruin it. I have plans to have a nice day. (Said plans don't involve him.)

So I feel like I need an answer ready that will not be the usual honest answer "well actually your mom and I are in complete agreement on this one" but something that will allow me to get out of this nonsense and get on with my life for at least two more days. How might you disengage from this conversation? I'm pretty sure I can't say "oh honey, I think you're doing great and your mom is a nasty ole shrew". And I also can't say "I'd prefer to plead the 5th", or "I'm not discussing anything about this topic ever again" (although that last is the closest I can think of).

In the past AH said he never wanted me to bring up the topic of alcohol/alcoholism again. In his view, he Did have a problem, and now it is ... not a problem. So the best I can think of right now is "you know you asked me never to talk about this subject again and I'd like to stick to that". But I'm not sure how long it will hold him off. He'll probably still bite and try very hard to pin me down to the "OH YOU TOO" $#1t... I will just have to go deep into my personal space in my head and not come out. It's so hard.

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

We all hear about attraction, not promotion. But when you look at the mindset in and around that, we realize that the alanon program and it what it has to offer us, is about us, respectively. And, it's not different for a family member, loved one, etc.

In my experience, people who live by generic rules, are letting the tail wag the dog. Life, in any specific situation is not about "Hold on, let me turn to page 86 in the manual, and see how I am supposed to act/react, what I should say" and so on and so on. For me, alanon is a track to follow, a curriculum, that one can use in and around living their life. It's not the other way around.

That said, Fedora, I very much like, and admire how you managed to stay out of it. Regardless of how, you were able to navigate around and away from SOMEONE ELSE'S CIRCUS! Not your circus, not your monkeys! LOL. It's interesting how you say that you and your MIL get along and respect each other -- yet you live at completely opposite ends of the political spectrum, as well as life philosophy. How? Why? Yes, she understands the beast...but you are managing and navigating the relationship!!! It sounds like you've been doing a great job for a long time!!!

What isn't managed -- and is unmanageable -- is your AH's drinking. This we all know. This is a progressive disease. Progressive not being a positive word or world. We all also understand that when a family member -- anyone for that matter -- tries to "intervene" and all that goes along with it, no, it never goes well. It can't go well. Never. Not until the alcoholic is ready and wants to quit drinking, get clean and sober, and get better/healthy. Whether or not she is in denial, believes that his drinking is a "spiritual" problem, or whatever else, it doesn't really matter. Your H's drinking is your H's drinking...and getting better, healthy, getting clean and sober...is up to him!

I agree, she probably either knows, has a sense, is starting to see, something -- that your H's drinking and problems might be escalating.

That said, does she know you go to alanon meetings? If not, tread lightly. That opens the discussion up and there is a completely different complexion to it. So, if she doesn't know...I would hold off and talk to your sponsor. However, if she does know, a simple, innocent -- check your motives -- invitation is not you "inserting" yourself into something, or "inviting" yourself to a party that you haven't been invited to. I might be concerned about getting "sucked" or "dragged" into the mix, but you know what to do if that happens. No, I think if you check your motives, are open and honest, talk to your sponsor about it, I think if it's innocent, simple, and you are not vested in the outcome...then you are good.

Your motives seem clean. I for one see it that way. I am sure the vocal, holier than thou, bulletin board bosses, and who knows who else, will have something to say about that. LOL. But, for me, I see it as clean, healthy, and you being OK in your program. If you feel differently, then that is a trigger for you to talk to you sponsor. As far as mother's "cutting off" children, don't kid yourself, It's happened. It's not so rare. It's not about right or wrong. Her going to alanon -- and her finding recovery -- is up to her. You might make it "available" -- but then it's up to her. That's where it sounds like you already are, so again, it sounds like you are good with it.

Yes, if she doesn't know that you go to meetings -- and yes, even though she might find comfort, relief, recovery, etc. -- and yes, it might help in tremendously in her life, you just don't know how either of them will react. Remember though, you said you don't know how either "would react to this suggestion" -- but is it really a "suggestion" so to speak? Why can you not simply "make it available" and offer it simply as "it's there" or something along those lines. There is a difference and remember check your motives.

No, you do not want more chaos in your life...you already have enough!!!

It's interesting that your MIL asked your AH specifically which of the relatives she would be allowed to confide in -- about what? His drinking? Yes, it is very hard to live a life as separate as one can from an alcoholic spouse, without actually kicking them out of the house, and continue on living like that. I guess for some it is bearable, tolerable, manageable, and the like, and if it is, that's great, if that's your goal in life (to have life, living, just be bearable, tolerable, etc.).

Fedora, I too got to a point where my AW was simply a lost cause, and yes, she was at a point where she would simply stay home, stay in the bedroom, be buzzed, drunk, etc., and it would be like that for the rest of her life. Yes, her medical problems were getting worse, and she had no interest in getting them treated, getting them handled, etc. She wanted to live her life the way she wanted to live her life. The problem -- my problem -- for me, was that as for her, I had no problem if she wanted to live like this. That's not my decision or problem, not for me to judge, look at, analyze, nothing, nothing at all. Her life, her decision, and her life to live. But as it related to me -- I wanted to live life with a partner. I wanted to travel, spend time in FL in the winter, up north in the summer, enjoy activities, enjoy life, etc. Now, her definition of living and enjoying life was different than mine. But, part of my definition was to have someone to share (my definition of) living life with! Hence, the overlap or intersection dynamic. I've been in the alanon program for 26 years, as well as many years of "other" work, both personally and professionally. I've seen countless number of people who were able to create a world, a home, a life, with an alcoholic spouse, and it was "OK" for them. But again, the "OK" or the tolerable, manageable, bearable, could not be congruent with the life I wanted to live. And that's OK. Yes, for me, being a parent, was a focal point, and that's a full-time job (when children are in fact kids, LOL).

I love that you and your son are bonding, spending time together, and benefitting from a new dimension of your relationship, and experiencing things you haven't done or had before. That's amazing! Aside from the incident where your son was disappointed -- and yes, it is something that absolutely will break your heart -- there's so much positive going on with this. Next time, your son, who has to learn some things on his own, will get that he doesn't have to, shouldn't, might consider not inviting, etc., his dad. He will be able to focus on the fun, the experience, the progress, and the good feelings -- all without his dad's involvement. And yes, because of YOU!!! Your son doesn't just feel someone cares...HE KNOWS IT...and feels it on a level that goes far beyond just superficial or basic feeling it.

So, does your MIL know you go to alanon meetings? If so, how long has she known for? If not, how long have you been going? All the best!!!

Fedora · Senior Member

Bo, thank you for your insight! You know, I'm not sure that I told my MIL that I was going to Al-anon meetings, in fact, I don't think I have. The last time that she and I talked about this one-on-one was quite a few years ago. Maybe 5 years ago. Before I was attending Alanon. at least, I think so. Anyway it was so long ago that I could not remember. (I remember sitting in my driveway talking to her. At the time my AH had gotten hauled out of the gym by an ambulance bc he passed out in the steam room.) Since then I have only heard from my AH what his mother thinks. Even though it has been a one-sided story, when I think about how she is, I'm pretty sure he's telling me things the way they would go down. She is deeply concerned/distressed by his problems.

She and I have spoken about it only very briefly - and so brief that it was probably not even the focus of our conversation. I suspect that she has picked up on the fact that I have never brought it up with her even when we were alone, and I have not mentioned my AH in my social media at all, in years. There are no pictures of him, nor are there posts about him. My friends will post just enough that you can probably ascertain that we are still together, but beyond that, silence. This is in fairly diametric opposition to her other son/daughter-in-law; my SIL posts adoring things about her spouse on a near weekly basis. My MIL has a particularly nice characteristic about her in that she will Not meddle in my life unless I ask her to. When I ask, she is always overjoyed and eager to help. But otherwise she keeps her distance. (She and I do play WordsWFriends a lot - esp since quarantine started I play with her every night. We never chat, but we play constantly.)

I never told her about (or had subsequent discussions about) any of the problems he has had (DUI, seizure, medical, etc) because I thought, "why should I be the messenger of news that will surely ruin her enjoyment of life? AH should be the one to break that news to her and reap the horror of a response he's going to get." I was pretty amazed when he did. (A moment of clarity for him that has since Not been repeated).

Anyway, you and Iamhere have helped me to strengthen my resolve that I don't need more chaos in my life, even if I think that in the long term it might benefit my MIL. I've got plenty on my plate. If we didn't have this quarantine issue, and we still had a house near hers (at one point we lived only one street away), I might think differently. We could support each other directly. But we can't now, and the worms that would crawl out of that can if I opened it might be hard to corral.

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Fedora, you are very welcome. Your sharing "out loud" provided me with a great deal of perspective on what it takes to be healthy, and how to live in a healthy way daily...so thank you very much!!! Most people don't understand that even the person listening or reading a share gets a great deal out of it, even when the person is asking for insight, perspective, experience, or whatever the case might be. I have a young man who I sponsor, and he calls me daily, asks a lot of questions, is seeking objectivity, insight, perspective, and even though he is the one seeking, I am still benefiting greatly.

That said, being that you don't think you've told her, she knows, etc. -- that presents you with a different and perhaps more complicated situation. Obviously, you MIL is deeply concerned, worried, distressed, etc., by her son's problems -- however, as much as you too are concerned for her, about her, etc. -- that isn't your problem to solve, as I know you well know. While you and her may have only spoken about it briefly, and so brief that it was probably was not even the focus of our conversation -- that too complicates this situation a bit. She keeps her distance so to speak from involvement in your life, what's going on, etc. -- you want to do the same, but you want to "help" so to speak. There are two different types of helping. In alanon, the million dollar question is always -- what "help" is it OK, and healthy to give. We know that some helping is hurting and not healthy, for the other person and for us! We also know that some helping can be healthy and supportive. We know there is a big difference between the two different types of helping.

What you have or have not told her about his issues, problems, drinking, etc., is a moot point. That's not your job. It's not your responsibility. Forget about being the "messenger of news that will surely ruin her enjoyment of life" -- whether it is or isn't, it's not your job. Whether he tells his mother or not, is also not your business. But if he ends up in jail, you don't lie about it, or cover for him, etc. Let her find out on her own, and let the two of them go through whatever they are going to go through. He has obviously gone out of his way to "hide" his life from his mother.

Ideally, your MIL will have discovered, on her own, that her son is an alcoholic. And, she will figure out on her own that she can't do anything about it. She has to try and fail, get angry, frustrated, and everything else...and you cannot spare her of what she will go through, even if you dragged her to alanon meetings.

What does your sponsor say? Is there a way you can let your MIL know that there is a resource out there, and it's there, if she wants to look into it, learn about it, and even attend a meeting? Can you frame it as your friend was struggling with similar issues, and she found out about alanon, went, and found it helped her greatly? Can you frame it that way -- and ask her to keep it confidential, just between the two of you? I am sure your sponsor, who must know you and your story intimately, can help you frame this in a healthy way, and in a way that protects you from additional chaos, drama, turmoil, etc.

I don't see you being in a position where you have to sacrifice your own peace, harmony, serenity, etc., in order to "help" your MIL. Simply making her aware of alanon is "helping" her. If it's not the result you want, well, that's about you...so talk to your sponsor, you have some work to do! LOL. Whatever help you provide, offer, make available, etc. -- you can't be vested in the outcome. There's a big difference between wanting to HELP and WANTING and OUTCOME. I don't see you being there, but it's a slippery slope and a gray area. I think there's a lot you can do. Remember...change the way you deal with people...the people you deal with begin to change. Change the way you communicate with people...and the people you communicate with begin to change. Whatever it is -- the change begins with YOU. Most people don't want to admit it, face it, or accept it...but alanon is a program of change. Baby steps, little by slowly, progress not perfection...whatever you want to call it...it is about change.

Listen Fedora, you are doing great. I admire and respect not just the work you are doing, but your sharing and how open and honest you are being. Not many people do that and have that level of being open and honest. In addition, your sharing is so genuine and what comes through is that you truly want to get better, get healthy, and live a happy and healthy life.

All the best!

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene