The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Hi, I just discovered this group and so appreciate it. I have been to al anon and ACA in the past and am going to start again. I need to get some feedback right now.
So, I grew up with alcoholics - which is why I've been to Al anon and Aca. I'm 42 now. After years of dating, I finally met a great guy. Though all my dating, I was so conscious -- i could spot an active alcoholic fairly easily. (Or so I thought!) I didn't want the situation I had in childhood.
And now, here I am. While we were dating, there were no signs my husband was an alcoholic. Shortly before the wedding, there was one instance when he ordered a drink and asked me if I thought he drank too much. (I now see this as the first sign - HE had a gut feeling.) After we got married this past August, things started to shift.
It came out that he has WAY more debt than he let on. And his once a week trip to the cigar shop became 3x. And a few times, I'd come home from dinner with a friend to find he had a buzz.
Early this year, it was discovered he has sperm count issues. Which is devastating because we both want kids so much. (And if we have to have IVF, clearly I'll be paying.) So the cigar shop became an issue - given that that could affect sperm.
Then came the virus and he lost a few clients. He approached me in early April saying he was considering Bankruptcy. I was shocked. He said he put tons on his CC during the wedding and honeymoon. (Which didn't make much sense because my parents and I paid for over half of things. However, it's also not like he is buying a lot of expensive things. Which is why I think he was lying all along about how much debt there was when we met)
After a meeting with a lawyer, I put my foot down. It's been my dream to buy a house. I almost have a down payment saved up by myself. The lawyer told us that even him declaring bankruptcy would impact me getting a mortgage. My husband realized this would severely impact our marriage so he decided to work double time and pay it all off. (And to his credit - he is working more and making progress with this.) He is reading Dave Ramsey. BUT, he still doesn't see what he did as irresponsible and is making excuses - ie. I've done this before, I always pay it off, If only the virus didn't happen.
So, April was rough. He had given up alcohol for lent, but now that that ended, he started drinking more than I'd ever seen him do. I now suspect that he was able to hide it over the years because he was doing it socially for the most part - he would go to work happy hours, the cigar shop, etc to get a daily dose. With quarantine, he was on his own. So he began getting drunk about once a week. After a few times, I brought it up as a major concern. He promised he'd get it under control. Then last week, I went to urgent care (it wasn't major but I'd had stomach cramps for a few weeks.) He offered to come but I told him he should stay home - they wouldn't let him inside. He called me while I was there slurring words offering to pick me up. It was disgusting. He got drunk. The next morning, he apologized and said it would never happen again.
Then Saturday, he was watching tv in our spare room. He was up there from 2 onwards. At 7, I went up and he was soo wasted. He had thrown up and not cleaned it up. A picture frame was broken on the floor. I've never seen anything like this. Later on he fell on the floor trying to walk. It was just shocking. And I'm like - how did I miss all this? Here I am, 9 months into a marriage and I feel like I married someone else. I later found hidden beer. (He clearly had way more than that so I suspect more is hidden - i.e. hard stuff.)
The next morning he apologized a million times. He admitted he has a problem. He feels it's weak that he can't control it - once it starts. He agreed to go to AA. He was devastated he did this to me. He said that it runs in his family - about 4 years ago he noticed he started to enjoy drinking more. And lamely he said that he had a drink that day because he had a hangover from 2 days before and that helps. But, yes, it got out of control.
I told him I would not live like this and would leave if he didn't get help. I insisted he talk with a family friend who is an alcoholic. He did and that friend is mentoring him right now. They went to an online AA meeting Monday.
But, of course my husband looks down on the meetings. He didn't like it. He is trying to convince me he can just quit. (And he has stopped drinking for a few months at a time before - like he did for lent. The problem is once he starts drinking, he can't stop.)
So, I guess I'm just devastated. I waited so long to find the right partner. I worked on myself so much. And now I've ended up with an alcoholic in his mid 40s who has major debt who is likely unable to have children. I feel like such an idiot. I wasted years and there's a good chance now I'll never have a child.
Anyway, thank you so much for reading/listening. I'd love any feedback - especially on when to leave. I do love him - but I am NOT okay living in a cycle. And I'm very sensitive about the debt. I've made good money - I witnessed my mom being taken advantage of and lose out financially because of someone else's debt problem.
Hi Allsmiles, welcome! I am sorry you are in this situation but glad you found us. I cannot give advice, but just want to let you know you are not alone. I am glad you have attended Al-Anon and plan to go back. Many meetings are now on Zoom.
I too have experienced the late-night drinking, the messes, the denial, the refusal to seek outside help, my life turning into something I could not stand. I am glad your husband tried an online AA meeting. I have to say, my late husband also finally was willing to attend an AA meeting. He eventually made amends to me.
Everyone's situation is different. All I can say is that for me, I dove into the Al-Anon program like my life depended on it. As to my marriage, higher powers took care of me. My life was miserable at the time I started -- I didn't see how I could go on -- but today my life is different and better than I could have imagined.
Aloha AllSmiles and welcome to the family. So glad you shared your story. For me no doubt it will help other see and understand our disease. It is a disease and he is not a bad person yet a very sick one. Alcoholism is a fatal disease and often takes the lives of even those who do not drink.
From my experience I was born and raised in it so by the time I married my first addict I was doing what was natural in it. My mother attempted to redirect me but even she was acting the role of someone affected. Who knew? I once couldn't say the disease, spell it or recognize it for what it was; a disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions. By the time I stumbled into Al-Anon so oppositional defiant and in another marriage to a progressively ill alcoholic/addict and battling it myself I seriously needed help. I came to understand through the program, literature, college, sponsor, therapy and more. I participated in the recoveries of many, individuals, families, schools as a behavioral health therapist and sponsor and still to my amazement and disgust it grows.
It no longer grows within me personally. There is soooo much to learn and then practice afterward. My life is a life of practicing recovery. Alcoholism is older than 6000 years and it is a learned behavior from my own experience. When your husband relapses he is going back to the practice of the habit called alcoholism. You both are powerless and it affects everything(one) it comes into contact with. I pray for you both. I hope he finds the definition to humility that I found in recovery....being teachable. I hope you both find it.
This disease is cunning, powerful and baffling. The meetings, literature, fellowship and working thru it together takes it's power away.
Keep coming back often, Check out and use all of the suggestions that are sent your way, ask questions over and over and turn him over to your Higher Power...Higher than yourself (2nd step and 3rd) Thanks for your support. ((((hugs))))
Welcome allsmiles. You know about Alanon and ACA so no need for an introduction to the program. You know your way to 12 step programs. It really comes down to what you can or can't live with. What you will or won't live with. At one point, I quietly visited an attorney to have my situation assessed and learn about my options. I had learned that the bar association offered a short consultation to prospective clients free of charge so it cost me nothing to get some information.
You have clear expectations about what you want from life and marriage including children. You have concerns about repeating family history of being taken avantage of financially because of someone else's debt. You can credit yourself for having awareness and not sitting in blind denial of the facts as they presently are. It's clear that you know you aren't powerless to take care of yourself now that you've learned he's an alcoholic. You'll decide the best route to go. I hope you'll keep coming back for recovery with us. I'm so sorry. I know you're really in the thick of it right now - surprised and disappointed. (((hugs))) TT
-- Edited by tiredtonite on Wednesday 13th of May 2020 02:59:42 PM
-- Edited by tiredtonite on Wednesday 13th of May 2020 03:03:11 PM
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
Hi I just wanted to welcome you to Alanon which is OUR program for US!!! What the alcoholic does is not within our realm of expertise or power, but we CAN work on ourselves and work towards a better life...with or without the alcoholic
You got great responses above me so all I can add is that when I am at a crossroads, confused, disillusioned by anything, human or life or nature, I ASK myself....."where do I want to be in a year???? or five years??????" AM I NOW OK with my current situation??? What can I change??? (I can only change me) and what/when do I give it over to my higher power and to my program....
so sorry you got into this situation and yea, it is a HUGE Load, for sure.....I do hope you keep coming back , Alanon is a miracle program.....
I do not kniw that any of us have an alcoholic meter. Sometimed we have to have a denial meter. At different times in our lives we are looking for different things in a partner.
I know that i do.
Time to put the stick down
This COVID virus has out eveeything on hold.
Marriage is a huge deal. Expectations are incredibk
Ly high for many of us. My expectations were absokutely off the charts. No ine coul have lived up to all of them.
I had a check list.
The first year of marriage is also incredibly.hard for some people. i have had couples tell me it is a steep curve to get through that.
My expectations were also something I had to look at.
I would second Tiretonight's thoughts that you sound like you know what you want, have the means to attain it, and have valid concerns about repeating family history. Perhaps think of this as "Where do I want to be next year? In 5 years? Am I "OK" with this situation getting worse (b/c you have zero control over others - just your actions). If you are not good with 'What Is,' than I suggest you quietly talk with a lawyer. I am not sure where you are located, but here in the US, once you become married, his debt is now your debt. There is also the fact that you have been married under a year - your lawyer could advise you regarding this.
Move forward with your eyes wide-open, and be brutally honest with what you are willing to live with. Ask for guidance from your HP in the quiet hours...
Wishing you peace and clarity of thought.
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"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
"I am not sure where you are located, but here in the US, once you become married, his debt is now your debt."
In all due respect, that is such a wide-casting and coverage statement and "here in the US" -- that is absolutely not true. Unless you are an attorney, and are speaking to a specific state law, the facts and circumstances -- and the law -- will dictate. I respectfully request that all of us stay far away from -- making broad, blanket, absolute statements, let alone making statements that are opinion and stating them in a way where they can or may be interpreted as fact.
The statement is not true in many states, in many circumstances, and in the context of divorce (with the exception of community property states where laws can and in many cases are very different), pre-marital debt is classified very differently than post-marital debt. Thus, his pre-marital debt, would not be her debt. Post-marital debt perhaps. It depends.
Bottom line -- don't seek or take legal advice on the internet, and if you want to become educated, explore options, understand how the law applies to you, your situation, and your facts and circumstances, then go see an attorney who specializes in that area of law, who is admitted in your state of residence, jurisdiction, etc.
All the best.
-- Edited by Bo on Thursday 14th of May 2020 09:44:21 AM
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Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
allsmiles - welcome to MIP! Glad you found us and glad that you shared. I am so sorry for where you are, what you're discovering and what brings you here. It does sound overwhelming and rightly so! In Al-Anon, we don't give advice including telling someone to stay/go from a marriage. The typical exception to this is if there is abuse - we will always advise on to find safety immediately.
I have no experience in what's going on in your life....if I read this clearly, it sounds like he's represented himself vastly different than reality. I am one who always recommends finding/using any/all resource local to seek facts - facts help me make informed decisions. That can include legal, counseling, al-anon, etc. There's a lot to comb through in your share, and one slogan we use often is One Day at a Time. Clearly all that you're concerned about can't be answered, processed, decided in one day - so (another slogan) - try to just do the next right things and I'm certain more will become clear.
I wish you all the best and hope you know that we're all here because we too have been affected by the consumption of alcohol in a family member or friend. Keep coming back - you're not alone!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I am someone who tends to get ahead of myself with things a great deal. This means I will never have is a real common refrain of mine. . I spent 4 months living out of s suitcase in a friend's house which was extremely uncomfortable. My apartment was being remodeled by the owner. The date kept getting moved around and that was difficult for me the extensions always came at the last minute
During that time I also had to negotiate the COVID crisis which is something that is unknown.
The owner of the place where I stayed is bv someone who I.have known for 20 years. When I made the arrangement I did not think to go over to check his house out because I had stayed there many times.
When I eventually got moved, which was complicated by lots of problems, I found a house very different from the one that I had lived in before. I will spare you the details.
At that time I was also experiencing a bout of COVID and trying to recuperate or even rest in an environment where it is was practically impossible. My friend is also tremendously self absorbed.
By that time the ink was sealed on the arrangement with my landlord who had offered alternative arrangements and my options were really limited
I was also really pretty sick and in no position to negotiate anything. I had to try to recover and make priorities
I do not think there are any guarantee's in this world right now. Beating myself up for not going to check on the house beforehand is not that helpful. Spotting an alcoholic is not necessrily a science
Alcoholics are extremely adeot at creating a really phenomenal front that is realky caotivating. Some highly functioning alcoholics barely stumble in public
Some of them, like my younger sister, even go on to be more functional and quite covert in their alcoholism.
I tend to view the world in black and white terms and predict disaster all the time and I have certainly negotiated many disasters so you would think I would be more confident of my abilities to negotiate them.
The qualifier,who I was involved with for many years, had the capability to earn a very good living. Then at times he chose not to because he wanted to indulge his addiction. The capability certainly remained throughout our relationship.
He most certainly had the skill set and real capability to earn a very reasonable living
In al anon I learned not to pick up the pieces. His responsibility was to pay the electricity bill. When he did not pay it,after al anon, I did not step in. Somehow he then found the money to pay it quite rapidly. I always felt I had to be in control all of the time al anon helped me to see another viewpoint.
Al anon and ACA are phenomenal programs that can help.us navigate through really difficult times. I hope this group will be able to helo you negotiate through this difficult phase for you
I know al anon has helped me through some really difficult times.
You know my first reaction to this was "take immediate action to protect your savings". !
But that would be advice giving.
Which whether we couch it in justifications or not, happens often in program and frequently on this board.
I can share with you my experience with alcoholics and finances. The concise version would be " disaster, run while running is still an option ". But the reality is that running often isn't an option when you're emotionally attached and feel like you've invested so much that the payoff has to be coming soon. (Spoiler alert: that is unfortunately highly unlikely to happen).
So I won't share that beyond saying in my experience the traits which are common in alcoholism once we stop denying their existence touch every aspect of life. Traits like emotional immaturity, irresponsibility, selfishness, deception.
I really strongly suggest educating ones self about the family disease as a starting point. Melody Beatties " Getting them Sober" is great.
Glad you're here and keep coming back.
Also, I had a baby with my alcoholic husband. Then I went on to have more. Like you, I can relate to thinking I was cured of blindness to an active alcoholic but funnily enough after doing a step 4 I realized my picker was running on a program all of its own rather ignorant to my conscious mind and its will. Of course by the time this glitch was identified, it was a little late to avert course.
Then again maybe I needed to take this pathway to me exactly the way I took it but oh my I'd never ever wish to repeat it because it was hard and painful. I reread your post. You're not new to this program. I can relate to that too. If you're willing to keep showing up, your role in this can be arrested, as you will know from previous contact with ACA and Alanon. I hope you keep coming back. There's always hope in recovery.
Hi, Newly Married and discovered Husband is Alcoholic,
I am so sorry to here your Pain with all of this, and what has happened to you. I can so relate to your Story, it would take for me to write a Novel to share all of my Story, but will concise it for you. I have been where you are, many years ago now, My first Marriage was to a very violent Alcoholic, having 3 children, never ever being game to leave them with him or near him, as he was violent to my eldest Daughter, when she was only a Baby. From that moment on, I would never, ever, let him near her, or my following Children. I became their Protector.
That Marriage lasted 161/2 years, I couldn't escape from it, as I didn't have anywhere to go, and my 3 were very sick Children. So I decided to stay, so they could have the best of Specialist Help. However, when my 2 Girls were Teenagers, the Violence became that bad, for me, {my life had been threatened}. They saw all of it, and I could see just how effected they were. I knew then that I had to get out. Oh, all of those years, did I want to get out of it, but couldn't. All I could do, was make the best of what I had.He did find AA, but didn't last for long, I heard about Alanon, but it didn't make sense to me.
When I got out of it, I promised both myself, and my Children, that I would never do that again. I thought that I could just close the door to all of it, and I would be okay. Needless to say, down the track this other Man came into my life. At first, I couldn't stand him,and even left my Home Town to get away from him, and to give my Children another chance to find Peace. I could tell that this Man drank a lot, and could see that he was very similar to my first Husband. But, But, down the track, I started to get very lonely, and let him back into my life. He became Mr. Wonderful, Mr. Marvellous, to me and my Children. So much so, I decided to come back Home, and get Married.
We were Happy for 8 months, and then, all hell broke loose. He started Drinking much, much more. Then the fights broke out, as I am a fighter. It was hard for me, as the 1st one was a Bender Drinker, I was able to settle down before, he broke out again. This one was a every day drinker, so I had it in my face all the time. I started to think that it was me, but after awhile, I could tell he used Emotional Violence on me. That nearly broke me, and as I had had an Emotional Breakdown in my 1st Marriage, I knew, I was on the verge of another. Then, like yourself, I realised, that he was an Alcoholic, I too was devastated, I, said to myself, that I had gone and down it again.
But, I always had faith, in a God, that I really didn't understand, I say that He looked down at me, and said "I have had enough of you, you are going to get help'but he knew that I had confidence in Him, but not in myself. So I reached out, to a Friend of mine, and she got me in touch with an Alanon lady, and I have been working the Programme ever since. I am an oldey, a long time member. That Marriage only lasted about 6 years, was very painful. But the thing was, I had to go through all of that to get Recovery, and I still so much need it today. As I have a rather large Family, I am a Mother, A Grand Mother, and a Great Grand Mother, the disease in all it's forms are within my loved ones, and it it's only through Alanon and my AA friends that I can do it.
One thing that has helped me the most, is, I learnt about the disease, I talked a lot to other AA's, and asked them lots of questions, about why they did this, why they did that. that changed my thinking a great deal, I could understand, what an Active Alcoholic becomes. I could separate the person from the Disease, and not to take things personally. I must say, it wasn't easy, but it made sense to me. It helps me a great deal, today, as one of my Grand Sons, has both drugs, and Alcoholic problems, in a big way. His 3rd relationship has broken down, he has 3 sons, one is still with him, and I fear for both of them, especially my Great Grand Son, who is only 10. His life has been hell, and still is. I know that because of my Grand Sons illness, and his behaviour, and awful lot of people hate him. But I love him, and it causes me a lot of Heartache to know what he is going through and putting my great Grand son through as well. I also know that I could lose them both to this disease, and I can't do anything to stop it, but Love them both, and place them both, all the time in Gods Hands, and have faith and hope, that He will look after them. I couldn't do it, with Him, Alanon, and this online Programme.
I can see how much you tried not to let this happen to you, but I know this disease, is Cunning, Powerful and Insidious. You can't change what happened to you, but like me, now you have a programme, you can start now and change you life for the better..... For You. I wish you all the very best, and hope and Pray that you continue to get help for yourself, and in that way, you help your Partner.
I wanted to thank everyone for your replies. I'm not sure this will get to you 2 years later but figured I'd post an update. It has been a looong journey.
My husband briefly went to AA then declared he was not like those people. He declared he would taken two years off drinking, then it turned to one, then it turned to 8 months. He got really angry at me and I realized I was trying to control the drinking, so I gave up and focused on my own happiness - as we talk about.
My mom unexpectedly died a year ago this month -- she fell down the stairs and broke her pelvis. Then she went downhill in the hospital and died 2 days later. The autopsy listed COPD and alcoholism as the cause. So that was an eye-opener. I can't help but wonder if she partly died from withdrawal.
Anyway, in the devastation of that, my husband got worse - calling me names and telling me I either "talk too much" (when I was sharing a funny story) and "need to respect the listener" - or I am an ice queen and cold snob. The thing that always surprises me is I wasn't seeing him consistently SEEING the drinking. So, it was a bit confusing. He has all the behaviors many of you have mentioned though - the immaturity, deception, irresponsibly, selfishness. It's so funny how we tend to imagine an alcoholic as falling down drunk all the time, etc. My mom wasn't like that. Neither is he. He gained tons of weight - and had to sleep in a separate room because of snoring starting last summer. He kept saying he would lose it - that he could lose it in 30 days. But he didn't take any steps to even try. When I dated him, he was so fit and running each day.
Anyway, it's been the roughest year of my life. Right after my mom died, I went through IVF. He was totally absent from every step of it. I reconsidered doing it but it was my last chance to have biological kids and we'd already started the process. I decided I'd always regret not trying. Anyway, the day before the last embroyo transfer, he spent the day at a parade with his friends drinking and called at 10pm to see if he could sleep over his friend's house. This is a 48 year old man!! Go figure, that time I did get pregnant. The day we found out, he lied to me about working late and went to the cigar shop until 10pm (where there is also alcohol). And then, it ended in a miscarriage. The day the miscarriage was confirmed, he went out with his coworkers to a sports bar after work til 9pm.
So, that was it. I told him I want a divorce. He is moving out tomorrow. I'm very proud of myself - my mom spent 30 years in an unhappy marriage and was finally going to get a divorce the month before she died. So I realized life is too short for this. I still love him - despite all this horror. I can't believe I'm saying that! I just wish he could be the person I met instead of who he has spiraled into.
And in the process of the divorce - I discovered he never paid off that debt I mentioned in my original message. He told me he did last year. He made great money last year. I just don't understand!
Even now, I'm still like- shouldn't he always be falling down drunk if he's an alcoholic? Has it really progressed if I'm not seeing him drinking a lot? And then Friday night he was slurring when he got home. So...
I'm determined to use this as a new beginning for myself. Thank you!
