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OK, so I have been triggered and am struggling a bit. Came on here and posted to The Daily, but I am still somewhat unsettled, so I need to get this out.
The last two nights, I have seen that my ExRAH has texted me in the wee hours of the night asking,
"Are you awake?"
"I can't sleep."
and then,
"Hey, where are you?"
Now, it did not wake me, b/c as of last Fall, I muted him (I can't block, as we have a teen/young adult we may need to talk about - but muting helps). But the next day when I go to use my phone, I can see that I received a message, so I read them on my time. At first I felt sorry for him. So when I had time, I texted back that I was working in the yard & didn't have phone on me. No mention about the late night texts b/c I felt it was crossing a boundary and didn't want to get into JADE'ing with him.
Last night was the same group of texts, but now was added:
"OK"
"Pretty selfish"
Then some garbly gook that didn't make sense.
I saw that text this morning when I awoke, and figured he's been drinking. Brushed it off. I was going to actually not text him back at all, b/c again, I felt this late night texting is over-stepping my boundaries. I was just going to ignore. But as I typed on this forum about the daily, I began to get madder and madder about this! So I stepped back and thought about why I was so angry. Eventually, I came to the conclusion that I was so angry b/c I felt I was being disrespected by someone who shouldn't even be in my life at this point. I felt like in being silent, I was giving AWAY my power.
So I did text back. I said. "Yes, I was asleep, and NO it was not selfish of me!" Nothing else. No justifying why I feel that way, no arguing about over-stepping my boundary, no defending my feelings, no explanations. Period.
I am not going to engage with him any further unless he is asking about our Kid.
I am going to go do some literature reading... I need to find my peace again.
Thank you for letting me get this off my chest!
&
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"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
While the passive police, the we don't give advice police, and who knows who else, might say otherwise...my take and my experience is...YOU DID A GOOD THING! You did for you. You were polite, respectful, stern but compassionate, civil, and you showed dignity, class, and grace.
What the alcoholic thinks of me and my behavior -- especially when I am not doing what they want me to do -- MEANS NOTHING! It is none of my business. If the alcoholic is mad at me...it means I am probably doing something right! I am not where I am in life to do what the alcoholic wants me to do. So, that's my experience, and no, I am not focusing on the alcoholic.
At one time, my boundary was -- when you text me, UNLESS, it is about the healthy, well-being, and welfare of our daughter, I am NOT going to reply to you. Period. So what do you think happened? She texted me about our daughter, and then went into her own agenda! How I abandoned her, left her, checked out of our relationship, didn't give her money, she couldn't feel her family, and so on and so on. All she wanted to do was have a forum, an audience, so that she could say I was wrong, I was to blame, I was at fault, and so on and so on. That is what made her feel better...at my expense!
You did great!!! Don't let him live rent-free in your head. Don't get mad. Get happy. Get healthy. Yes, you are going to get disrespected! re. That's what alcoholics do! Especially when we don't do what they want! So, don't let him be in your life...not to any extent greater than you want. Yes, he will disrespect you, with his behavior...but when you don't let it impact you, when you don't react...then it's not disrespectful...and then YOU will NOT be giving away your power. You only give away your power WHEN YOU DECIDE TO DO SO. When you react. When you let it make you angry. When you let it change who you are being.
You did great!!! And you went to do some readings, call your sponsor, go to a meeting...YOU ARE DOING IT!!! GREAT FOR YOU!!! Keep up the GREAT WORK!!!
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
(((PnP))) - so, so very sorry that 'this' is what you've woken up to a couple days in a row. No matter the reason, it would bother me too. My favorite line to me is, OK - so what am I supposed to do with this? Through practice, practice and more practice, I have come to pause big time simply because I want my response to be based on what I am feeling and not based on anything else - another person's thoughts, words, feelings, an event, etc.
My experience is that when someone is ignoring or violating my boundaries, it's a great opportunity to reassess and revise as/if needed. Over and over again, as time goes on for me, the best response often is to just not respond. I can look within me to try and figure out what in me is allowing me to give another power and then I can say a quick prayer for both and let it go.
There is something, especially in women (caretakers, enablers, etc.) where we tend to feel some level of responsibility for the happiness in others. We also spend more time analyzing situations, people, feelings, etc. than men most of the time so if I am not careful, I can avoid JADE yet find myself spending precious time projecting all kinds of needless, noisy thoughts. I have blocked mine and suggested email is a better way to reach me. You have all the power to adjust your boundary/ies as wanted/needed for this next chapter in your life. With tons of practice, and the choice of joy and serenity over all other, I have gotten way better at ignoring those who try to stir the pot or seek attention in button pushing ways. Usually, they will go away or change their behavior if they don't get the results they want from me - my sponsor told me over and over again that I teach others how to treat me with my actions and responses.
There's no shame in feeling whatever you feel - anger, annoyed, etc. Feelings are real, they just aren't facts. Once I figure out what I really feel and why, I am better able to pick a tool that can get me to the other side. I step far away from anybody who feels it's OK to label me in any way or take my inventory. It's become obvious to me that those folks aren't looking for a relationship or a compromise; they are seeking attention/power and will take it when given a chance.
Just keep doing you, trust your program and your progress! How you feel today and how you respond might be different tomorrow or next week or .....there's no right/wrong way to use the tools we get by working this program - for me, it's usually trial/error to get to the best tool and response that keeps me closest to my center. (((Hugs))) - breathe and be proud - you got this!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
It sounds like you're good with the decision you made to text him back the next morning. There's really no tried an true way of handling anything when it comes to exah's or other family members. We all have very unique relationships and are actors in the play. Choices involve motivations that are really only known to that person. What has been best for me as a program person is working "To thine own self be true," especially concerning self care. Of course that encompasses many things too. It very definitely includes knowing what is true for me and what is not. Call me selfish and I may give it some thought and consideration. After all, I'm far from perfect so maybe I was. A reasonable person wants to give consideration to another person's impression. But when all is said and done, I know myself and I know my motives pretty well, thanks to the program. When I was new I was unsure and of the belief that there was so much that needed fixing in me. This really wasn't true. I was no better or worse than most people. But I had been blamed a lot, accused of a lot and disrespected a lot and my self worth was shaky. Life is better today. I try to be very specific and very clear when I set boundaries today with certain people because some can be manipulative and self serving, disrespectful of my boundary. I like the way you handled your situation by not responding to the text until the next day and got some sleep. You will see what comes next with him if anything at all as far as texting during the night. If the situation escalates to texts that sound more dire, you make a decision as to what you want to do. It sounds like he is having a hard time letting go but that is what sponsors are for even in the middle of the night. (((pnp))) Thanks for sharing. Keep taking care of you. TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
I just wanted to stop by and say "Thank You" to all who posted. I learn so much from this site! That is why I keep coming back! LOL!
I will have to say that what I responded with and then what I did after posting here (literature & sponsor talk) helped me move past the anger while still feeling strong in my conviction.
I appreciate the support!
((((((MIP)))))))))
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
Love to hear that PnP!!! What I find so compelling about recovery is I've become willing to do any/everything to let go of anger, resentments, etc. I so prefer the 'pep in my steps' that comes with a serene mind and a peaceful heart! Keep doing you and what you're doing - looks simply grand on you!! (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I would have been disturbed, too. Sure - when I'm really centered, this kind of behavior might not push my buttons so much. But beings that I'm human, sometimes it will. Of course, I cannot change others, so when it comes to setting my boundaries, usually it's in the realm of what can I do to take good care of myself without this other person having to change? Because I cannot control them, and trying to control them makes me lose my serenity.
I have a do not disturb feature set on my phone that stays that way during my sleeping hours. I just have a few people set that can get through in case of emergency, like immediate family and some of my Al-Anon friends/contacts.
What's been difficult for me is trying to adhere to not looking at the phone first thing in the morning when I wake to see if there were any messages. I get up extremely early, so I remind myself that if anyone left a message, they can wait another couple of hours before I'm ready to look at my phone. This gives me peace first thing in the morning - I don't have some weird message starting me off on the wrong foot immediately. Instead I spend my mornings doing my self-care - exercise, shower, gratitude list, prayer and meditation. Only after my needs have been attended to do I then check my messages.
Now, there are people who I can see have left me a message where when I see it I immediately pray, because I know this person can trigger me. Sometimes that prayer is just "help", others it's like "God - this is your deal, not mine..."
And then at that point I can work out if I want to just ignore someone who's trying to bait me. Or, tell them matter-of-factly that I'm not going to engage.
I have to be cautious with people who are trying to pick a fight with me. My sponsor has told me in the past that when I argue I make it real. Brings me back to that thread I started about not having to attend every argument I'm invited to.
That said, I think what you responded with was your truth and it didn't sound like you were trying to argue. Tagging on something like "YOU'RE the selfish one!" would have been playing into his games.
It'll be interesting to see how communication goes moving forward. Like my sponsor says - "pay attention to the results".
What I've always found very insightful, almost ironic, is the question...who is doing the JADE'ing? If it's the alcoholic, regardless of whatever it's about, I have to focus on me and make sure I am not -- in denial, accepting unacceptable behavior, etc., and so on. But them doing it is on their side of the street. I have to make sure it does not infiltrate me, my well being, my side of the street. Far too often, we are collateral damage, and sometimes direct damage, of the alcoholic's drinking, behaviors, decisions, etc. While I am compassionate, it is not my business what the alcoholic thinks.
Far too often, people mistake program with passivity. That can be a slippery slope...to denial, accepting unacceptable behavior, being manipulated, and more...and all that happens because I let it happen...or I don't know it's happening!!! And there is our disease. Contrary to what others say -- in my experience, our disease is very different than the alcoholic's disease, and our recovery is very different than the alcoholic's recovery. For me, this, here, is alanon. That's for me, from the alanon perspective. It is a perspective of living with and/or loving an alcoholic...not being one.
That said, when I receive texts, there is no rule that I -- have to respond, and if I do, that I have to speak to each and every issue the other person brought up, and so much more. I don't have to hit back the ping pong ball...I can simply put down the paddle!!! In the tug of war, what happens when one person (that person being me) simply drops the rope? No more tug of war!!! When someone violates my boundaries -- they violate my boundaries. I don't have to respond. But I do what my boundary calls for, what I was supposed to do. Why? Because my boundary was there for me!!! Many people don't get that.
In my experience, many people "analyze" and over-analyze...akin to the cut bait or fish analogy. To each their own. However, you are supposed to be angry. Even annoyed. So, here's what I've learned, and my experience...Your feelings are real. If you are angry, someone can't jump up and say, "NO!!! YOU'RE NOT ANGRY!!! YOU SHOULD NOT BE ANGRY!" LOL. That would be foolish. You feel what you feel. It's real. Alanon teaches us a track, a program to follow, tools, so that feelings do not consume us, ruin our ability to find peach, serenity, and yes, happiness! Don't fight those feelings. Don't be in denial. First, ACCEPT them. Acceptance. Feel them. Accept, this is the way I feel, but I am not going to let it consume me or eat me alive. I feel it, I get it. Truly have and be in acceptance in and around those feelings. Then, SURRENDER to them. Really surrender. To me, that means not fighting it, sitting, being, existing with those feelings. Not trying to fix, control, throw out, whatever. Surrender to the feelings because you can't control they exist, but you can control whether or not they take over your life, your being, and that you are powerless over that feeling of whatever it is. When you truly surrender...then you can LET GO. Letting go is having the ability to know that something, someone, bigger than us, outside of us, can and will help us and not let the feelings consume us. There is so much more to this, and I've found that many people "rush" through this process, and the first three steps.
For me, I don't worry about how I feel today, vs. tomorrow, or the day after. I am present. I live One Day At A Time...one minute at a time if need be. Just for today is also a way of life for me. Just for right now. I can. I can do this. I can do that. I can choose to do nothing. And all of those things I can absolutely have objectivity on, because that's the work I do with my sponsor. I look for objectivity. I seek others' perspective...because I am in it. I am perhaps emotionally vested and I don't even know it. Too many people are in it...and don't know it. I have a sponsor who I talk to about all of these things, and more.
Sometimes a person who is in a race...is so far in second place...they actually think they are winning. LOL.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
From My Experience, I had a Similar Situation with a FOO once, and Because they was at the time sick in their Disease, I had to have Limits & Boundaries in place to Protect my Own Sanity... And Oddly Enough I Didn't Realize till this Experience, that I had been doing this Most of My Life!
Before Al-Anon and Before My AFather Lost his Battle with Alcoholism, My Son was 11, And From the time my Son was Born I would Never take him to see my Afather unless it was Between the Hours of 10am-Noon! and I Stuck with that All the way up till my Dad Past... But it Saved My Son from Seeing the Side of My Afather, I Couldn't Forget! So Boundaries for Me was Very Necessary Most of My Life, and Most times I Did it without Knowing it :/
After Al-Anon when I had to do it with other FOO, I Had to say... "After 7pm No More Messages from them! They are On Silence till at Least Morning... As with their sickness after the Work hours of the day was in, you just Never Knew which Personality was going to be on the Other Side of that Text, so Even if I Saw it, I'd Pray, and Ask Myself... "Are you ready to Read this? Or Just Let it Go for Now!" and Most times, I wasn't Ready! and would have to go on with my Day, if it Poked at Me I would either Delete without Reading, or Read it, and then Pray for a Response... but if I Knew it was a "Drunken/Drug Induced" Text, I wouldn't even Engage...
I'm So Grateful this Program has Taught me How to do that without Resenting Myself or Feeling Uncaring in their time of "Need, Or Lack there of!"
I Too am Grateful for a spot that we can come and Feel Safe, and Talk about these things! I Come from a Very Small Town with Limited Meetings, So Many times you see the Same Faces Every week, and Some of those Faces are new to the program, so they don't understand the Importance of "Safe" and Non Gossip! So Even there I Feel I have to Keep my Wall up a Bit, So I'm So Grateful for a Place like this to Come and Walk thru these issues with others...
Thanks for your Share, I've Been Working on Being Honest with Myself of Late, and it Seems a Full time Job just to Keep up, so Thank you for your Honesty So Glad Your Here :)
I do have the "mute" feature on his profile. That way his texts aren't "pinging" me whenever he texts me. Eventually, when I look at my phone for something, I can see that I have a message, so I'll know it's his... I can then ask myself, "Am I ready to deal with this?" just like Jozie and Aloha shared. Sometimes I just let it go until later.
In responding to someone else, I realized that I have spent the last 2.5 yrs trying to be the "perfect" Ex. Showing compassion even though boundaries have been repeatedly over-stepped and I am angry about it, making sure I model good/healthy behavior for my Kid to see, showing his family that I can be compassionate, and forgiving without being bitter, and showing my family that I can relate to my Ex without letting him "back in" or being resentful. Sure, some of these things have kept my serenity intact. And some are just about being a decent human being. But at the end of the day (or in this case experience), I was just DONE with trying to be the "perfect" Ex!
I felt my anger and resentment. I told myself that it was "OK" to feel that b/c boundaries were not being respected. Basically, I was being disrespected! My response was not one that I have done these last 2.5 yrs... but I feel it was the right one. Coming on here and letting it go, and then reading/absorbing all of your ESH's on what happened has helped me to stay radio silent & not picking up the rope.
Thank you.
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
Bless your heart! Seems to me you are handling this very well.
When somebody just runs amok over the bounds of decent behavior, it can ring me like a bell. Especially if I've been behaving as an adult and then all of a sudden someone pulls a playground stunt: "I'm not going to play by the rules."
So I feel for you and could identify. Good for you for coming here and getting support. Good for you for not letting it throw you. And you learned some more. Stuff happens, and when you come out of it stronger and able to see how you are making progress, then it feels not so bad, I think.
As others have said, you are a blessing.
Temple
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It's easy to be graceful until someone steals your cornbread. --Gray Charles
I am not going to engage with him any further unless he is asking about our Kid.
*********
((((((((((((((((((((((PNP)))))))))))))))))))))))) now THAT is what I call recovery...Funny how , like a rash, someone toxic tries to remain in our lives, but with program...we become aware....we take action..... whereas b4 we let them jerk us around.....when he tosses that rope down on the ground, you do NOT have to pick it up.....I see BIG time progress in you....and yea, its normal to be "normal" human and get sorta triggered and feel Jaded.....HUGS
You don't have to beat yourself up about having this person in your life
Currently I am staying with someone who three years ago I swore I would never have anything to do with again
When we are done with someone it isnt necessarily this final curtain issue. Three years ago my friend triggered me horribly. I felt maligned and abused by him. I ran into the a ou apartment complex I.currently live in as a flight from all those feelings
Needless to say three years later there are issues with the apartment complex which ij s currently being rennovated. So here I am staying with a person I literally loathed three years ago.
Three years later he is still selfish but the bells are not going off in the same way they once did.
I made my aoartment really comfortable
His house is extremely uncomfortable on so many levels.
I think the issue is when we are triggered and there are lots of issues with boundaries. Those people with substance abuse issues have issues with boundaries
But I have lots of people in my life who have boundary issues. Certain people hit all the notes for me.
I find self care extremely difficult. I find caring for other people people really easy. In fact I think about it a lot. I have real issues about asking for help and getting it
The friend who I currentjy live with certainly texts me. I work really hard to detach from those texts. But then our living situation is very temporary.
Long term I am looking to get another apartment because I know the apartment complex I live in is realky unhealthy. The stuff they have pulled over this rennovation is incredible
I could have seen this coming
When you have someone around who.is triggering you it is deep stiff. Sometimes it is many layers of issues.
As you work through the layers of issues the triggering abates. Then for me often that person fades out of my life .
When I leave my friends house in approximately 4/5 weeks I do not want to be running for the hills. I want to be at peace. Peace is not something I have too much of in my life.
I deserve it. You deserve it. We all deserve it. If you keep working through what triggers you (without a pass/fail grade) I am certain you are going to get there
(((PnP))) - love that you are able to leave that rope lay! I needed to see that today, this morning in fact, as I'm processing a situation from last night that felt 'soul-crushing' in the moment. It is still smarting today and while I am sitting with my pain and feelings, I am also grateful to know that I have a program, I have tools, I have choices and support. Like you, I plan to keep focusing on me, my recovery, my journey, boundaries, etc. so I can return to my center. I am reminded today that no matter what is going on around me, I matter!! (((Hugs))) - keep doing you - you got this!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
I think part of JADE'ing can sometimes be like "that person just pushes my buttons!!!" -- do they? Or do we let them? Allow them? Invite them? Enable that in taking place? And so on and so on and so on.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
I had to deal with some people who were bingeing on drugs last night. I do no know them personally but it was a real pain in the neck. I do know I deal with them much better now than I ever have. Nevertheless it is super tedious
I think the issue for me with triggers is the bucket philosophy. Right now I am temporarily out of my home, recovering from a virus, tired and certainly recovering
There are times when it is easier to deal with people.
I have purged a lot of people out of my life. After I leave this temporary living situation I will not be in contact with my friend anymore. He has plenty of issues but they are not mine to fix
My life goal in.the past was to be helpful and neighborly and most of all kind. But these days when people are not kind to me they do not get kindness back
In many ways my going to stay with my friend was a way to help him because he is clearly struggling financially. He doesnt appreciate it
Nevertheless the whole boundary issue is tough on me because I grew up in a place where there were no boundaries whatsoever
To be in a place these days where I say no thanks calmly and without rancor is an immense achievement for me
Getting there is one big uphill struggle. There are sometimes I believe when life steps in. I am exhausted from having to move
Not having a voice is good because then I do not try to demonstrate with people. I just say I can't talk which is of course true
There are certain people it is not worth talking to
Putting myself in the way of trouble was a way of life for me
Now it isnt
Nevertheless it is a long hard road to be mindful of my boundaries and my limits
I had no limits before. I was always at the point of total exhaustion around the now ex A. Then I stopped talking and I stopped engaging
He is still surrounded by chaos. He is still getting DUI's despite intense family intervention
These days my life focus is no longer to fix others. At the same time we do live in an immensely dysfunctional world
Finding a job and a place to live where there are few problems is huge. I have set a lot of limits at my job but there are still issues and huge problems coming down the river. Being in a position to say this is not something I am willing to do. Generally when I walk away from situations I am totally done. These days when I walk away it is with dignity and my self respect in hand
Finding al anon has been one of the great gifts of my life
Practicing it has been an immense challenge. Nevertheless the more I practice the better I am
(((((Maresie)))))) I sure hope you heal from this virus! I have found that living authentically tends to be harder (for me) when I am ill. I just don't want to put in the work it may take to hold my boundaries, stand with my truth... stuff like that. Exhaustion plays a big role.
I really liked your tone with this:
"These days when I walk away it is with dignity and my self respect in hand Finding al anon has been one of the great gifts of my life Practicing it has been an immense challenge. Nevertheless the more I practice the better I am."
Thanks for coming along in my journey! &
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"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
Hey Maresie, I really enjoyed your posts and I, too, send you healing energy....stress can really delay a recovery, so I hope you can find your peaceful place within and get better......
& 
