Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Debb · ~*Service Worker*~

It has been a while!!

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Hey, hey girl - so, so good to see you! You've been missed! Congratulations on your retirement - you worked for it, enjoy it! My personal experience with marriage, relationships and the added complexity of alcoholism ... there is no simple path, no straight road and my life/love/return on investment ebbs and flows! There have been moments where I've felt unloved and wanted to leave, and yet - I had doubts so did what our program suggests - When in doubt, don't.

While I never really know what's in the hearts/minds of those I love and call family, I do know that with a primary effort of practicing this program, I'm authentic and healthy. My boundaries keep me safe and sane and my self-care keeps my healthy and whole. The more energy I put into self-care, recovery and self-reflection, the better things seem to be/get.

The good news - you're starting a new chapter! You get to choose how you spend your time/days/energy/voice/etc. You get to wake up each morning and determine what's next to do, just for today. You get to explore new hobbies or pick up older ones that have been set aside. It took me a while to adjust to retirement but once I settled, each day really is a new beginning!

Love and light Debb - please keep coming back....(((Hugs)))

PS - I've quoted your signature many times since I've seen you last! First time I saw it, it spoke to me and now I share it often!

Debb · ~*Service Worker*~

I saw your post and it brought tears to my eyes! Thank you so much for your kind words, you reaffirmed my thoughts and it means so much to me that it came from you!! AH is six years younger than I and is having a fit that I retired, but I worked almost two years beyond my actual retirement age, I desire to rest now. We adopted a 3 year male cat, that is so active and such good company and I am not at a loss for things to do and am so glad I'm home!! Thank you again and Love, Light and Hugs to you as well. I will be on MIP daily to rework the steps and will assist anyway I can.

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Debb, congratulations on your retirement! Having gone through this many times with clients, friend, loved ones...it can be a very exciting time, and the best time of your life! The best part of that is...it is YOUR CHOICE whether it's the best part of your life or not. Think about that.

In my experience, and for me, I have found that when someone is completely open and honest with themselves -- and someone else (ie: a sponsor), so that there is objectivity and accountability (if someone wants that) -- that is when the sky is the limit!!! Rather than focus on what he's doing, how he's acting, and treating you, and attaching names to it, trying to figure it out -- begin to shift the focus onto YOU. What is acceptable and not acceptable to you? What's unacceptable behavior look like and feel like to you and for you? Now, they don't have to be questions to ask right now...but after looking within, learning, being open and honest...your program and recovery can give you something priceless. It can give you the opportunity to arrive at a point where you can...breathe, think, and make decisions...and you can do that from a position of strength, mental and spiritual well-being, being calm, cool, collective, with intellect...and not doing so with emotions, duress, stress, fear, negativity, and so on.

For me, I was able to arrive at this point where I was able to ask and answer...is this the life I want to live? From that day on, my life has been incredible...better than I could have ever dreamed or hoped for.

I wish you all the best.

Debb · ~*Service Worker*~

Bo, thank you for posting a reply to my request for thoughts on my quandary. Yes, my quandary is not necessary and would not be there if the focus was on myself at this very happy time of life! I am getting back to the Al-anon basics and so totally appreciate your response!

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

You're very welcome Debb, and thank you!!! Your post resonates with me -- and with many others I hope -- and brings the basics back to the forefront of my day to day living. It reminds me, it helps me, and it prompts me to keep doing what I am doing.

Verbal abuse -- being the recipient of it -- is OPTIONAL. I am sure when a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it...I am sure it makes a noise...but no one is there to hear it. Period. Can you tell me about the noise? Can you describe it? Can you tell me how loud it was? You can't tell me anything...because you weren't there. LOL. When verbal abuse is coupled with the projections, inferrences, hints, even jokes, that one might become a "financial burden" and then more demeaning "observations" so to speak...that is NOT about YOU. It is about the other person. That's a trigger to focus on YOU. He has problems and in order to feel better...he has to put you down! Detach, don't contribute (enable), don't be a part of it...UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR.

You are not supposed to feel good about how he treated you. People who say they ignore it, and think they are detaching...are in denial. So be it for them. You can try to apply logic and love to an illogical person and situation...and simply drive yourself crazy, LOL. Alcoholism and narcissism -- absolutely! So, now it's time to stop looking at him on his side of the street, and focus on you and your side of the street. Don't let him or his stuff (what he says) make you feel low as you call it. You are a happy and healthy, wonderful person! You didn't miss anything. You are looking at the story when the movie has ended. Look at a magic trick after the magician shows you how he/she did it!!! It doesn't matter that he is fine with the way things are...you are not. Get healthy, get happy and get to the point where you can do what you want to have the life you want to live. One day at a time.

Debb · ~*Service Worker*~

Bo, thank you!! Needed reminders and you presented them beautifully!! I've got my heart headed in the right direction, but my head was giving me some problems there. My side of the street is still under construction because it's in a new neighborhood. It is a work in progress and will probably be for quite some time. The last discussion we had was two months ago, I am done. You are right about one day at a time with my future in mind at all times. Blessings and hugs.

-- Edited by Debb on Saturday 11th of January 2020 10:22:39 PM

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

You're welcome Debb...go slow. Be patient. Relax. Breathe. When you don't let the other person infiltrate who you are being...you get healthy, and you get healthy faster. Yes, one day at a time. That phrase is certainly much more than the words. It is a way of life, a mindset, a way of being...and you are doing it.

Just focus on you and what you need to do. Keep it simple. Acceptance, Surrender, and Let Go. Steps one, two and three...can be applied to everything in life.

It's there for us...if we want it. It works if you work it, so work it...you're worth it.

(PS -- notice how the other person is not referenced? LOL. There is the power of our program)

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello Debb so good to see you back and sharing. Congrats on retirement, I love it. It appears your alanon tools are solid and have served you well during this challenging time. HP will guide your thoughts and actions so trust this process. ans keep coming back

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Debb))) - just keep doing you and keep leaning in! For what it's worth, my AH is 12 years my senior, and I retired first....he too was resentful for a while - as with all things, this too shall pass! I believe, but can't confirm, it was all about envy, jealousy, etc. Some of those very 'human traits' that exist with/without substance abuse. Also, as with most things, this disease does magnify 'all'.

Love that you have adopted a 'friend' to keep company! I still have my sweet dog, who is senior age now. She's hard of hearing and can't see well at all but is still a daily resource for staying present, taking what comes as it comes and just forever joyful and grateful. In spite of being approximately 14, she still jumps with excitement for meals, walks and snow. Because we know she's slowing and her time with us is limited, she's been more spoiled lately than before yet she remains the same! I've learned so much about enjoying life from my sweet dog!

Truly awesome you're back! Make it a great day...(((Hugs)))

Debb · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Betty, its good to be back and sharing with you and everyone on MIP. Hope you are well and happy! Thank you for the congrats!!! HP has and will continue to have my back, so grateful and grateful that everyone on MIP has been here for me as well! {{HUGS}}

Debb · ~*Service Worker*~

I gotta say that, talking this out with you all has reminded me that there is a larger picture that I was missing and that is that, everything that has happened, from the beginning to right now is because of the design of my HP and I am grateful for that!! Blessings to you all!! It is 65° here in New England in the middle of January, WOW!! Have a wonderful Sunday.

Aloha · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome back and glad you're here. I don't have too much to add other than I can confirm from my own observations that narcissism and alcoholism can go hand-in-hand and it can certainly make us work our Al-Anon muscles double-time because narcissists insist on being the center of attention. So - I concur - it can be easy to slide into focusing on the "other" when they're insisting they be the center of your world.

You're on the right path, though - bring the focus back to you. What's your joy, what do YOU want to do for yourself today. Fill yourself with the love you crave. I find when I'm loving myself and putting myself first, it's easier to then handle the people who insist on being drains.

Debb · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha, thank you for your wise words of encouragement so happy to hear from you and very comforted that I am back on MIP. Your are so right about self love and bringing the focus back to ourselves. It is when AH has gotten to me that is when I am at my lowest and that is not a good place to be. I am living and learning my friend!!

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I can relate to a lot you say. The realisation that love was not part of my marriage was hard to take at first. I got quite angry about it fir a while before I accepted it. The acceptance came the more I learned about the nature of the disease in both him and me. While active addiction is ruler then love is fleeting in my experience. It's more about gestures designed to get what is needed. So for me i might show 'love' to him but it was mostly to keep the peace or to keep him calm or quiet. I had my motives. He would show 'love' to keep his disease alive mainly. I can see this is the disease and not a personal rejection. I always believed he had this big place where he kept his love and just denied me it. I came to alanon and what a relief to know he was giving me the best he had at that time. Alcoholism takes love and twists it uses it up quickly. I have found love is about me for me. My relationship with myself is the most important one to fulfill my needs. Noone else can do it for me. I need help from my higher power to love myself. I dont really know how on my own. It's funny because I expected a sick alcoholic to know how to love me. My denial was long lasting. I'm learning to love and care for me and part of that is not accepting unacceptable behaviour. I love myself enough now to not allow abuse and not in a big shouty dramatic way. It's a quiet removal of my body from abusive people each and every time until the message is loud and clear. I wont stay in any room to be abused. Not anymore. I also try really hard not to jade with an active drinker. Its futile and contributes to the chaos so I say standard things like I'm sorry you feel like that or maybe we can talk another time about this. Alanon the steps have the answers x

-- Edited by el-cee on Tuesday 14th of January 2020 05:19:09 PM

Debb · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you El-Cee for your ESH, it was a hard pill to swallow at first, realizing that the alcohol is what he is in love with really. I agree about no more abuse, will not tolerate it ever again, have been keeping busy and to myself, do not share anything personal and do not ask for any help. It has been very very peaceful here these past two months. I should have done this years ago! What I was doing was detaching with empathy, but I had to take it a step further and it has done the trick. There is no doubt that my HP has been helping me and of course Al Anon, to see that I have to like, love and be proud of me and I cannot let anyone take that away from me. Unfortunately, that seems to be what AH wants to do, so that he can feel in control, have more reason to drink, feed his ego, justify his stature, claim everything as his own, take credit for my existence, etc. (LOL) Not anymore!! The Ice Princess has arrived! They say that no one can get your goat if they don't know where you tied it up!!! Blessings El-Cee!

Maresie888 · ~*Service Worker*~

I believe the now ex A loved me the best he could . I.am also approaching retirement and it is a sobering time. I know that I am wo grateful for getting to this point in ny life. Certainly I am aware that my time is limited. It is indeed very very limited . There is something bittersweet in those limitations because around an alcoholic time is interminable. The decisions for me get easier after a time. They do not beed to be weighed up and assessed Leaving the ex A was hard. I had invested many years with him. The irony is after Inleft him he went to live in an idyllic area. He was also with a branch of his family who were realky supportive. Lately he has manager to mess that up Being on your own isn't easy. Being with a partner who does not appreciate you is not easy either Maresie

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

There is a difference being alone...and being lonely. Many differences. It requires some recovery work to learn the differences and benefit and grow from them.

Remember, if you are completely open and honest -- and work with a sponsor -- you can live and learn with objectivity. Add accountability to that and you have the ability to live, grow, and learn without the limitations of "self" and "ego" and the walls of our own mind, thinking, etc. In my experience, the common one I've seen inside the rooms of alanon, and in people's lives...is denial.

Once you start to focus on YOU -- and not him, what he did, why he did it, analyzing, theorizing, etc. -- you can then improve, learn, and benefit the person who deserves it most...YOU. That's the only person and thing you can control...so focus on it.

Debb · ~*Service Worker*~

This morning was thinking about how to put into words my state of mind and being at this time. I am at a level of peace and understanding that was not able to even fathom.

I thought the level of detachment that I was at was enough, but I discovered that there are many different levels and for each of us it is different, because of our individual circumstances.

To say that I am purely in the NOW is an understatement and my connection to HP is even stronger. I share a home with a person, that I cannot share anything personal at all with.

I thought it was enough, to just detach from the drinking and the verbal abuse, but it wasn't. It seemed if I shared my day, feelings, etc. it would, in his constant agitated state, only cause the drama/chaos, and subsequent verbal abuse. I have excepted that he lives in his own world of fear and that it is not my place to point it out or help. I choose not to reside in that world, got to much to offer.

He seems to be a little confused about the my pull back, but has not questioned me and I am grateful for that. If he does question me, I will just say that there is nothing to share and walk away.

Reaching that point of total intolerance, after 18 years together, for me has been a complete game changer. Everyone has it, we just all reach it at different times and then do different things to learn and grow from it, with the help of Al Anon and members.

Thank all for your ESH and support. Don't know what I would have done without you all. Al Anon works when you work it.

-- Edited by Debb on Monday 20th of January 2020 09:52:12 AM

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Debb))) - great share and I too have experienced 'different levels of detachment'. Also being married to an A, and staying in the marriage has taught me so, so much - about me, life, love, etc. I too reached a point of detaching with indifference. We too lived in the same home, sharing very little. Yet, I remained (thanks to Betty) always kind and lighthearted as I work hard to practice consistency. I treat all those I encounter with courtesy and respect, and those I love get the added bonus effort with patience, kindness and unconditional love/acceptance.

As he assessed what was going on, and I worked on me, there must have been a divine intervention. Over time, we reconnected, with a different level of acceptance for each other and of each other. I have no doubt there are things I do/say that annoy him and vice versa. Yet, we don't dwell or focus on that which is different, but instead that which we have in common. We actually golf together now, and communicate much better than before - even when we were newly married and both sober.

I've said it before, I am not entirely sure how recovery works, but it does and the return on investment for me has brought experiences I truly never expected. My life, days, attitude and serenity are so much better than I ever expected - simply by practicing this program, acceptance and unconditional love of others. If your guy communicates like mine, he may never ask - he may just sit down one day with a cup of coffee and want to talk about weather....just sayin'!! (((Hugs)))

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Debb, coming to a conclusion about a level of or the extent of detachment is a good thing. If you are looking for objectivity -- talk to your sponsor!!! Sometimes a person can't be open, honest, truthful, or objective. When you are "in it" -- it can be impossible.

I like what you said Debb...detachment, on the surface, appears to be such a simple term and concept. Countless times, I've seen and heard beginners/newcomers collapse and confuse detachment with ignoring. Or detachment with giving the silent treatment. Or they completely don't understand what the goal and objective of detachment actually is.

Aside from the "degrees" or the "extent" of detachment -- there is physical detachment, and emotional detachment. Some also say there is a spiritual detachment, intimacy detachment, and so on and so on. In my experience, people who detach and the result it more of going through the motions so to speak, more being roommates, having little to no real, meaningful conversation/discussion, sharing little to nothing about each other's day, lives, etc., sharing little to nothing as a couple, as a partnership...in my experience, that is not detachment. Now, if that's what someone is doing, and that's the life they want to live, and they call that detachment...that's fine. So be it. I am simply sharing my experience, what I've learned, my observations, etc. For me, physical detachment was exclusively about protecting myself, and my well-being. I physically detached when unacceptable behavior was going on, and it wasn't going to stop, when I was being abused verbally, emotionally, or anything of the life. My physical detachment was exclusively so I could -- sit, relax, read a book, watch TV or a movie, eat in peace, be alone, not be yelled at, not be a witness or recipient to unacceptable behavior, not be a victim and certainly not be a volunteer, to diffuse a situation, and so much more. I never did it to teach a lesson, to punish, to be vindictive, etc. Physical detachment was not something that had anything to do with the marriage, relationship, or the couple. It was independent of that, it was for a time period, a moment in time. I simply left the room or the house. I was always happier with the new environment than with the old one.

Emotional detachment for me was harder. Much harder. Different story. Apples and bowling balls, LOL. Emotional detachment had to do with acceptance and just not focusing on her. I knew I was getting better when I started talking about her less and less. When she was a reference in a conversation, not the focal point, that is when I was focusing on me and getting better. I read it here all the time -- some long-winded paragraph, and the alcoholic is the focal point, and the main subject. For me, I had to start focusing on me, because if I didn't, I wouldn't get better! If I didn't, then it meant I could only get better if she did, if she stopped drinking, if we were OK, if she was happy, healthy, and so on and so on. No, it doesn't work that way. That's not recovery. That's not me getting better.

I found it hard to simply have these conversations, about our day, dinner, the mail, whatever -- almost as if the 2000 lb. pink elephant were not in the room -- and that's OK, if that's OK with you. But when the elephant pooped...Look out!!! LOL. I would be civil, and polite. In time, I was able to be "OK" with all of that. Just for the moment. But even when she wasn't drinking, she still had the disease...the 'ism's. So, even when she wasn't drinking, there were issues, struggles, and more of the like.

Detachment -- whatever type can look and can be different for everyone. Check your motives. Detachment is FOR YOU, ABOUT YOU, and has to do with you getting better. The alcoholic doesn't get better because you detached. LOL.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene