Not surprising- that there are differences- because we live in different parts of the world. Our group was in an upland town of 1000 people. What you call a 'conscience meeting', we would call 'a business meeting'. ~Group conscience~ is an entirely different concept over here. We had more of a committee at district level, which may have covered a population of 300,000 people. Tradition 4. Sadly our local meeting is in permanent recess. I found that it took years of building up a meeting- often with only one person at a meeting, sometimes. So it is a sad loss to see a meeting fall over.  ...

 

   Thanks Betty...  ...

        I look at traditions one and two- in a practical way. No longer the glassy-ted optimist...  ...

        Looking at the thread- on meeting dynamics- and a topic like this will bring a round-up of views and opinions- and most of us did not get a lot of this- in our alcoholic families.

        I tend to watch and respect the person who starts the thread- kind of like a mini-chair... what I might add- depends how well I know this person...

                              few boundaries here- greeting time, sharing time and coffee time seems to all roll into one...

                              but, over time I think we sense where we are, with this- and what is appropriate.

        ...my nana used to say: make haste slowly. And I know that was not conference approved. So I should say: one day at a time: which says virtually the same thing! 

         This is a lovely place- and it has a lovely atmosphere. There is a degree of tolerance... I think most of the guidelines come from example...  ...

 

  This happened to me about 5 years ago. I mentioned this on the MIP ACA group- and was blocked for saying my own ESH. And the moderators tried to get the admins to ban me completely.This seems more like a dysfunctional family- when mother has a black eye and bruises. You tripped up, didn't you mother? Yes i tripped over in the yard. So- there you are- get on and do your homework. That sort of thing.

This happened to me personally here in my home town- in my Alanon group.

I was taking my daily reader- Hope for Today to meetings. I was not reading from it. I asked if I could do a reading from HFT. I was told that i could not- because it was not conference approved. I was told that my problems was about NUTS. Not Using The Steps. Having been in alanon for years I was sure that NUTS was NOT conference approved.

So I asked politely if we could raise Hope For Today as a conscience issue and discuss the topic. I was told straight up that if I called a conscience meeting all the women would vote against me!

Sad to say- that Alanon group fell over within a few weeks. I think the younger members thought I was wrong- that I did not know what I was doing.

[I would venture to say that this is the kind of thing we pick up from our FOO's.  ... "I'll give you something to cry about!"

     ...

it sucks, I know. That is why- as a member and group rep. of the MIP ACA group- that members should have the chance to defend themselves. And have a proper group conscience meeting. By personal messaging, on the group business board, or on the MIP Business Board.

Pretty easy to figure out- with a bit of group discussion.

As it appears- a group conscience meeting in NZ may world is a bit different from the USA. More like a business meeting in the USA.

David i believe that HFT was orignally looked upon as  ACA literature.nd  and was not recognized as alanon approved just as  the AA Big book is not recognized 

I am not sure why you needed to share this here as these actions are not what most encounter in an alanon meetings . Groups tend to adhere to the traditions and if a problem surfaces they can discuss it based on alanon principles and the Traditions SORRY your group did not. I can see why it folded.

Agreed about HFT and ACOA. Like I said, I never encountered a meeting such as this. I am sorry to hear this David. Every meeting I go to, here in NNJ, and in NYC, is conference approved, and is run according to the guidelines and principles of alanon. Slightly different opening and closing, and so forth. But they are all alanon meetings. People visit from out of town all the time and never have a problem with any of them, and they enjoy them. I attend meetings in FL all the time, never have a problem with any of them, and I enjoy them.

Like I also said -- I think it's a very good thing that all alanon meetings are "the same" (for the most part). They are supposed to be. There are reasons for this.

If a group conscience got "shot down" -- then in my opinion, that is not a legitimate, conference approved meeting. They've gone rouge so to speak, LOL.

While I respectfully disagree with you about the ability to have a proper group conscience here in this forum, I think the point is more about the f2f meeting, and the experience you had. To be perfectly honest, I find this forum far more deviant from conference approved alanon and alanon guidelines and principles than any meeting I attend. Now, that's just my experience. LOL.

David, I agree with you. I found the meetings in CA different, meaning a different dynamic, a different vibe. I found similar in FL. The common denominator was that the majority of the people had many years in program. However, the format, for the most part, was the same. The "flow" and the outline of the meeting was the same.

I also feel and believe that my comments about this board, and someone else's comments about this board, or a f2f meeting, are just that -- each person's comments...opinion, perspective, and so on. I agree with you, I think it's a good thing for people to be heard, yes, their own truths. That's why I was surprised at the reaction and commentary I heard here, on this forum, when a group conscience was asked about. For me, a conference approved meeting either follows the guidelines, principles, and format, vis a vis World Services, and the alanon program -- or perhaps the meeting, as a result of a group conscience, had gone "rogue" so to speak. However, if a meeting doesn't follow those things...than for me, that's not a legitimate alanon meeting.

DavidG wrote:

---

 

    Bo... it is my belief that the conscience meeting, called on the Business Board, had little or nothing to do with MIP Alanon.

        I think the Alanon forum here- is in good heart. The issues arising surround one of our other 12 Step groups, in my view. -D.

I logged in there last night- and was banned. This morning [Monday] I find my post was blocked. However the admins are doing their best- they do a good job. They seem to be dealing with a difficult situation. Be patient.  ...

-- Edited by DavidG on Sunday 6th of October 2019 02:48:26 PM

---

 

David, why were you banned? If you don't mind me asking. You had a post blocked? What does that mean? What difficult situation? I am unaware of what you are referring to.

That said, I am not speaking to administrators' efforts, commitment, or anything of the like. I am speaking to the fact that what goes on here -- would never occur at any alanon meeting I've gone to. If one person calls for/suggests a group conscious -- it is deplorable in my opinion -- that a couple of other people can sit in judgment over whether or not they feel the subject matter of the suggested group conscious warrants a group conscious...and one person gets to say, no, I don't think that warrants a group conscious...and it doesn't happen. That's not only non alanon...it's the antithesis of alanon! Hence, this is not a conference approved forum. A few bullies get to decide what gets addressed and what doesn't. That's just my opinion.

Now, I don't harp on it. I am only stating it -- and clearly, and once -- to make my point and speak my mind. It's not for discussion purposes. Sorry for the problems David.

-- Edited by Bo on Sunday 6th of October 2019 05:24:06 PM

Bo,

     I was banned for something I said about Alanon.

I was something that any number of us have said, from time to time... ...as a part of our ESH...

So I asked for conscience meeting to discuss this. It is a question of what power do the moderators of the groups have? To protect the safety of the MIP groups.

But it is the members themselves, including the mods, who run the groups. 

As a moderator for the Al-Anon group area only, I can say that I've never banned a member. I have banned spammers, which are those who join and being thread after thread about any/every thing under the sun that's not recovery/Al-Anon related. I am sorry David that you've been banned - I am assuming it's from another area since you're still posting....

As far as the MIP Al-Anon group area and group conscious, I am not aware of anyone suggesting that ideas, changes, etc. could not be brought forward. I know that anytime anyone has brought an idea to me publicly or via private message, I've encouraged them to post about it to check interest in a group conscious meeting and/or changes to 'things'.

MIP has many members. Some pass through, some stay. Some leave and return and some leave never to return. Those who stay or return must find some value in our group or they would move on. This online group is no different than any other online group, with exception, we have trusted servants as moderators. Every member is welcome to make suggestions, express ideas, etc. When John was still alive, he was the ultimate authority and the 'final answer'. I had no issue with that as he was gracious in what he built and offered to all of us.

I know that MIP has given me a lovely tool for my recovery program. I love that anyone, any where can reach out and post and that most offer ESH in return. I also continue to grow and learn through all shares, formal meetings, here, informal meetings, so it's a win/win for me. I am grateful for what John built and left for us and am humbled to be a member and part of it.

My ESH on Business Meetings & Group Conscious Meetings - I rarely attend business meetings. If I am in a service position, I do as it's requested/required as part of the position. I've had 32+ years of recovery business meetings, and they are not my favorite thing. I will always attend a group conscious meeting IF it is important to my recovery. In both scenarios, I fully understand I will openly accept what the group decides in lieu of my participation. I do truly believe that participation is the key to harmony in recovery, but also respect and understand that participation is optional. Off to watch Sunday Night Football - hang in there David!!

I hear you David. The entire quote thing is a very ambiguous topic -- either you can or you can't, but it depends on the use, so maybe you can, and maybe you can't. LOL. If you can't then the feature shouldn't be there or it should be turned off. I get it though. I've used it. I think I heard one or more people say that's the equivalent of, or this forum's version of cross-talk. OK, if they say so, LOL.

David, I hear what you are saying about the people here, what they have to offer, etc. -- and I DO NOT disagree with you. Nothing I've said speaks to that. I've never referred to a specific person on these boards in that type of context -- he said, she said, he did this, she did that, etc. My post(s) strictly and exclusively referred to how something was handled and addressed -- and yes, it was handled and addressed, actually dismissed as I've said, by a couple of people. But that's not about the people necessarily, it's more about the tone, the overall dynamic of the "room" so to speak. It's not about people -- or personalities -- it's about principles. And being that this is not a conference approved forum, and the guidelines of alanon -- in totality -- don't apply, I understand what that means.

That said, I said what I said. I won't say it again. I am not offering it up as, nor am I interested in discussing it. Move on.

Enjoy and have a great day everyone.

 

In my early days here- John ran all five boards. And he did a jolly good job. I am a member too of CODA and ACA here. But here on the Alanon board I stick to Alanon, mostly. Alanon Tradition 4 cooperates with AA alone. Because that what was all there was- when the traditions were written. ACA's Tradition 4 cooperates will all other 12 step groups.

And this was a golden opportunity to do this here- to practise unity. I would rarely if ever poach members from one group to another. Let them find their own way- their own preferences.

But more often than now we all embrace double or triple winners!

Sometimes, on the ACA board a member would by-pass the moderator and go straight to John- and he would zap someone. Two times out of three that would have been the right call- but not always. I had a member on the board who was a foundation member of ACoA. 1977. We shared a lot using the private messaging. Things were going well. Then in one posting he reacted badly to someone else- who was out of control. There was no come-back. No explanation asked for. No breathing space. He was gone- he evaporated. I felt like someone had taken a favourite dog out- and a horse- and shot it. And I still feel this way.

After that i  made sure I had email or facebook contact with regular members- in case it happened to me- or two them. So today i am still a regular  member, and Group Rep of the MIP ACA board. I am a regular member at the ACA chat meeting. The only thing is- currently I am banned from the ACA message board.

Because of my time zone- I could not attend the chat meeting very often- so I began to share on the message board.

I doubt very much- as per the MIP Business Board that Alanon needs to do anything. Us members on MIP Alanon seem to move as a body. There are changes all the time- but they are barely perceptible. In my view, it is called ~growth~ ...

But the ACA group is the new kid on the block. I do think it needs a little help.

MIP ACA is by far the second biggest group here- and it has great potential.

This is exceptional, because except for the ACA group now, all other group s her rely on people coming in from a google search. Or by word of mouth, I expect.

I got pulled up in my ACA group for saying something about Alanon. I said the same thing here- on this thread and no-one complained. They had no reason to.

It is something people regularly say, about AA, about their own tradition- the lot. 

So what I am looking for, from the MIP family is actually on the MIP Business Board:

Moderator rights, post deletion etc are handled within the individual boards group conscience.

I see that the admins here have been put under some pressure. I am sure it hasn't been easy. Through my network of contacts, on the ACA board, I have asked for my ban to be lifted. I am asking for the right to defend my place in the group, and to rejoin the membership.

DavidG.