The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
My son is starting to sound a lot like his alcoholic father with a defeatist attitude and beating himself up along the way. He's his own worst critic. Nothing I say really makes a difference so I've started to just back away and let him figure things out for himself. He didn't attend college this past year and spent his time working part time, going to counseling, teaching tennis with his former coach, and just generally experiencing some ups and downs of life.
I struggle with how much to step in and how much to step back. He's going to be 21 in a month and he really has no direction and it bothers him more than I think it does me. He's so hard on himself but then he's also frozen due to anxiety, etc. He takes supplements which help A LOT with the anxiety and he uses CBD oil to calm him down and he still goes to counseling. I've tried, gently, to get him to go to AL Anon but we all know that people will only go when it gets bad enough for themselves.
He wanted to start learning Adobe and getting certifications for that and I know he wants to 'adult' and get out on his own soon. But, his negative self talk basically put him in a place where he literally just gets frozen and in his head and then he does nothing. I hate nagging on him because it just makes him feel worse.
I know many of us have kids in that age range. Any encouragement would be helpful.
Thanks! Hope you all are having a lovely weekend!
B
__________________
Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
Actually, I think it sounds as if your son is exploring a variety of options....teaching tennis, working with a counselor, and now has a desire to learn certification in Adobe. It sounds as if you are handling this by stepping back and being a sounding board for his ideas, while encouraging him. One step at a time.....
(((B))) - it happens....and I've witnessed it with both of mine. I am of the opinion that any adult child, 18 and beyond, should either be in school FT or working FT. Why? Because, my experience is that idle minds/hands just don't do well, especially for those of us affected by this disease, directly or indirectly.
Someone wiser than I once asked me if I were to pass today, what would happen? It concerned me greatly at the time as my kids would have suffered - I was allowing them to live @ home on the cheap, they were playing video games, working PT and 'other'. They both have depression and anxiety so I felt they needed special treatment. I discovered they did not - my job is to teach them how to survive and thrive in this world, including how, when and where to ask for help.
I shifted things up greatly, they both rebelled, moved out and tried their current lifestyle and learned many valuable lessons. One of which, they hated living paycheck to paycheck and having no $$ to do fun things because of bills. Two, hard work does pay better than minimal effort. Making more money is contingent on higher education or specialized skills (my oldest went to school, got a computing science degree; my youngest became a brick-layer for now).
They would not have found their way so long as I was providing a continuous soft landing. They both have returned home to collect themselves and restart, with rules. They both pay rent to live here, help with cleaning, groceries, etc. They have been responsible for their own mobile bill, gas and insurance since driving age so had part time jobs during HS.
Today, if asked that same question, I have peace in my mind/heart that they know how to survive. They know how to balance a check book, pay bills, do a resume, interview, change jobs, ask for a raise, find MH support in a variety of places, where the AA/NA meetings are as well as a variety of churches if ever moved. My boys know now that every $$ I pay out to help them/bail them out reduces my retirement funds. They know now that each earning human has bills to pay, discretionary funds and the choice how they are spent/saved.
Neither of them had any interest in my ideas for their future - they had to do it themselves. My oldest even said he enjoyed school and worked hard for the grades since he was funding it. He now realizes how much he took for granted as we stood here often/always with billfolds open (when they were younger). There were many things I wish I had done different when I realized we were a bit behind on adult learning/skills but feel confident now we're where we should be.
I treat them as adults, not children. That doesn't mean I don't support them, advise them, etc. yet it's changed as I always ask first. Sometimes they just want to think/process out-loud, and I offer them the same respect I would another adult and focus on listening and understanding. They've both taken drastically different paths than traditional and than I hoped/desired yet they're both finding their ways. My ultimate desire is they be happy, joyous and free and I really don't care what they do so long as this is the end result.
The Serenity Prayer and our tools helped me greatly - I could not change them, nudge them, etc. but I could set boundaries, detach and change me/my attitude/approach. At various times, I've put their names into the steps and gone forward. Parenting is not for faint of heart girl - you're awesome and so is he! I just found changing me helped mine grow up a bit and find their way, just for today and one day at a time!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I too am sending you hugs and support. Like Iamhere mentioned, parenting is not for the faint of heart! Thank you for posting your thoughts on this, as I received a ton of validation just from your's and Iamhere's post!!
My son is a couple years younger than yours. He too suffers from anxiety and depression, although his depression has improved dramatically since we moved out. But the anxiety has increased...he and I have talked about it... he thinks it may be amped-up due to his age, outside expectations, inside expectations. He was an on again, off again student at a community college right after graduation, then told me he did not want to go back. Thanks to my Al-Anon work, I was able to respond rationally with, "You are now an adult, it is your life, your future, I am sure you will make the best decision for you." "If not, then it is early enough in your life to be one of the many learning experiences you will face!" LOL! "Besides, all these outside sources (read high school counselors) tell you there is only 1 way, 1 path to take to be successful in life. That is just not true! It's a falsehood they perpetuate to keep the school-money machine moving." "So I will be here for you if you need a sounding board... b/c I only want you to be healthy & happy in your life... I don't care what you are doing for a job to get there!"
We did discuss counseling for his anxiety... boy was that met with a resounding "NO!" LOL! I also tried to introduce the idea of CODA to him and the reasons why checking out the online forums would be beneficial to him. I recognized he just wasn't ready, so I backed off. But after a couple of really bad anxiety episodes, I have given him studies on the what the lack of some supplements will do to anxiety (as I can tell you know, there is a BIG correlation there), as well as literature on CBD oil. He now uses it with some success. I am not sure if he checks out the CODA sites.
Like Iamhere, I too, also believe that a young person should be either working FT or schooling FT, or some combination of both to keep their minds occupied FT. So after some thought after our talk, I went back to son with why I thought he needed to contribute financially (within his means) to the household he shares now that he works FT. To my surprise, he agreed!!
So Al-Anon has really helped me in stepping back, and allowing my kid to grow as an adult... all while keeping my boundaries. I really love that you are choosing to step back! The urge to rush in and protect or provide is so strong for a Mom - I know!! The struggle is REAL! LOL! Keep up the great work you are currently doing, and just understand that the feelings you struggle with will pass. As long as he knows you will be there for non-judgmental support (but not a cushy landing spot), he will eventually make his way.
&
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
Hi A your son sounds as if he is willing o explore different fields . You are a great Mom so I belive that just letting go and allowing him to explore the workd is your best option
oh hugs to you both. I can really really relate to your son at a similiar age. The pressure of not knowing what to do when it seemed like everyone had a five year, six month, ten year plan and was certain about where to go in life just compounded the anxiety. Then winding up with a ASD diagnosis as an adult, a whole lot of things made sense after the fact but that didnt help me at all then with the feelings of lack. On the other hand, having to fake normal and failing failing failing have lead me to now be able to do it when it suits me without taking my different-ness like a knife to the heart. Am i correctly remembering that he has a learning disorder? If it helps, I would share that sometimes progress and learning for people who are wired differently looks different to progress for typically wired people. ADD disordered people for example sometimes do well as the creative sparks in an entrepreunurial setting but need others to work on the completion aspects. They may not be capable of sitting in an office for 8 hours on a daily basis to churn content, but might well churn out amazing content in a total of eight hours that exceeds anything produced by others in the former setting. Just an example mind. I too think it is great that he is trying all these things. I also kind of agree with the idle hands analogy by Iamhere because sometimes the worst worst worst thing in the whole world is to have time to spend in your head. So I don't really know how helpful this post of mine is, except to say, keep the faith and sending support.
Thank you all! My son wants to take responsibility financially for himself. Currently he takes care of his car and car repairs, pays for his own gas, and buys his own food. I do not cook for him. If there is food in the house he is welcome to eat it but I don't go out of my way for him.
He has been making music and and can spend 10 hours on 1 song while he works on pitch and incorporating vocals. He's considering going to an arts school or tech school for the arts as well as completing his Adobe certifications. He also works on his photography periodically and he has a website for that, as well. He figured out how to get his music on Spotify and how to get paid when people listen to his music. I had no idea what he was talking about, lol, so that's why I let him be.
He's relatively self sufficient and he stays out of my way, so to speak. I don't worry about him the way I used to but I still worry a lot, too, if that makes sense. And, yes, he has learning disabilities regarding memory and ADHD. He takes a few supplements which help and he is starting to figure out how to do better at time management and using a calendar, too.
It will come together for him. I'm just a worrier by nature and I want him to feel confident as he learns the skills he needs to continue pressing forward.
__________________
Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
You both are amazing IMHO. It is pretty cool that we have a tech world now where there are options outside of 8--4, and that makes a bit of pocket change too! Well done to your son. ( I have yet to download Spotify; a young person tried to explain it to me once, and that's where my knowledge ended lol).
Bonnie.... this is one of those "long term" answers, moreso than anything that helps for the right now...
Your son has choices, and two of the blatant ones in front of him are:
1) choose to follow in the footsteps of his alcoholic dad - blaming the world for all that is not working for him, etc.... OR
2) choose to follow the path of his beautiful, spiritual, HEALTHY mother, who made her own choice to seek recovery, to overcome, to LIVE, to find her happiness, and to tackle life head on....
I'm a believer that in the long run, the fact that he can see the (enormous) changes in you, will serve him well.... I get scared for kids who don't see either parent doing anything positive, and that is a much more challenging hill for them to climb.
Keep being you, keep your chin up, and here's hoping that your son IS paying attention to what works in life, as well as what does not.
Hugs
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
(((B))) - he's all good as are you! I too am a worrier and the program has really helped me with that. He sounds like he's got many interests - all good things! They all (kids) seem to unfold in different ways, at different times and I try to enjoy the show as best I can.
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I worry about everyone else. We are getting a rent increase in our building. It is inevitable. I.can pay it but I know others can't. They are pretty paralyzed to advocate fur themselves. I am beyond advocating for others these days especially when they have not asked me.
I think it is wonderful to be concerned for others. I did not go to school college till my.mid 20's. The course of study I.made (art) did not provide me a living. Yet so what? I found other things to do.
There is no one solid way for all of us.
Depression is a real difficult illness to deal with. Al.anon certainly helped me tremendously but so did medication (fir a while) Certainky therapy helped too.
For me it was and still is a regular feature of my life
I still spend parts of my day wondering how I.can help others. I just choose not to act on it any more. It is when I act on it I hit trouble.
Maresie
I'm late to the party however completely relate. My oldest doesn't seem to have much of a plan at the moment and things do knock him backwards. He takes a few steps forward and gets knocked back.
I have learned to try and just let him figure things out and I have confidence he will at some point, he's certainly not short on smarts. He seems to be short on life experience in real world situations and gets stuck. He's said a couple of things that have made me LOL. He cut down to part time hours and I started charging him rent bless his heart, he's not in school and when he is I will not charge him rent. It's not a huge amount however it's accountability. He's also started ticking again and I'm not sure what that is about, he's not looking to do meds however I am putting him on CBD to see if that helps with his anxiety as well. I know an oncologist who sells it. I trust her. So we will see.
It's hard for kids today to see where the lines of adulthood are drawn and I played a part in his state at the moment. He is making steps to move forward and I'm just trying to continue to be supportive emotionally. ATM my kid isn't talking to his dad and I have a strong feeling there was more said in the last texting conversation than I have been told only because he's worried I will go mama bear on his dad. I told him I wouldn't however I do keep saying nothing will surprise me .. LOL .. and then he surprises me.
So sometimes quickly sometimes slowly he just continues to move .. I do worry about moving forward and what that looks like to him. He's super talented artist and writer I keep praying he will move in that direction. I haven't seen him lately to even say hey what's going on .. lol.
He has a new girlfriend and I do like her .. one thing I'm concerned about is buying into the woe is me stuff .. umm .. no .. and I do call him out on it only because I'm not interested in it. He can attend alanon or counseling whatever .. he has choices. I do know for him one thing that seems to really have him blocked up is his issue with no name change and he's suppose to be working on that. I have considered giving that to him as a Christmas present. It's not horribly expensive and I know he feels he can't do it for himself at the moment. I feel like that would be a HUGE deal for him.
S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Serenity, thank you for the support and encouragement. Raising kids is definitely not for the weak! That sounds like a great Christmas present.
I took my son out to LA this weekend for his early bay present and he dragged me to a warehouse in LA (like, really scary area LA) to go to this underground event for up and coming Indie Rock artists. He had read about it on one of the artists Instagram pages. The event was for new releases and had a DJ there with food, drinks, and a few turntables with headphones so you could listen to the new albums, etc.
I was shocked at how well he knew their music, how communicative he was about the tools they use when he started asking them about synthesizers and programming, etc. My son is talented, he is working on this, and he knows that music is just his outlet and hobby for now, but he certainly has skills and I was so in awe while I sat there listening to him talk to these new artists.
He can still play tennis but his heart isn't in the competition side for now, and I'm happy with that. He said he got into an argument with his dad last week about this because his dad was still pushing him to go pro and how this 'art stuff' won't pay the bills, etc. Well, neither will tennis unless he can hire great coaches and get on tour which is NOT easy to do, lol. My ex has this fantasy that our son will live his own dream. And, my son called him out on it and told him to stop trying to live his dream through HIM. I was really proud of him for standing up to his dad.
He did tell me that my ex has been off the booze for a bit and now seems lucid enough to be obsessing over me. Which concerns me. Apparently, my ex was going off about my new job, my new boyfriend and how wonderful my life is and he is also angry that I bought a house so close to his and that he dreads running into me at the grocery story (like WTF). My son said it's weird and that my ex even goes off about how my current BF is a pilot and he constantly talks about me and my current life. Not sure what to make of it but for a brief few moments I was wondering if I needed a restraining order? I asked him for a divorce 5 years ago. And, I come to find out that he's obsessing about me and talking to our son about it?
Anyway, that was totally off topic. I'm just doing the best to be a supportive mom but also encouraging growth as he moves along into adulthood.
__________________
Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
You know .. based upon my experience with my X .. his expectation was I would fall apart and never stand back up. My X still goes out of his way to do make things more difficult for the kids and I because of his own issues about the fact I have never said I want you back, this is to hard and so on .. when I was done I was done. Again based upon the emails I have received how he reacts to the kids .. there is that want and need to blame "me" for his issues. Never mind that he created his own storm and is mad because he wound up with a natural disaster of his own making .. it is ironic to watch it in action.
I don't think you can get a restraining order over his obsession. He hasn't done anything outside of be super creepy. Which unless he has done something actively dangerous my experience with TRO's or restraining orders tend to escalate the situation .. just let him obsess and if he does anything like texts or emails something where you feel in danger .. yes .. get the TRO (temporary restraining order/restraining order, some places call them stay away orders depending which state).
At this point he's angry that your life has moved forward without him. He is not moving forward at this point. This is what the diseased thinking of addiction and ISM's does.
Big hugs :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
& 