Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

loranard · Member

someone help

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome, Lora

I remember when I first called the number in the phone book to find an Alanon meeting. The kind woman who answered the phone gave me two sentences that I hung onto until the first available meeting, two days later:

"It's Not your fault!"

And "Things will get better!"

I offer them to you. There are also online meetings here, but Face-to Face meetings will be the biggest help.

From here, I hope you decide to take care of yourself. If you can leave, that might be a good start. At least pack a bag with essentials and be ready to go. Having a friend's place where you can go, or family, would be nice.

We aren't supposed to tell anybody what to do unless they are being physically abused or threatened. I think mental and emotional abuse is just as critical and maybe more so.

Read, read, read on the board. There are ways to look up topics. Or just randomly go through and read the posts that resonate. When you get to your first meeting, you should be given a Newcomer's packet that explains a lot.

You have the right to call 911 if she is threatening to harm herself, or is harming herself. Or is threatening you.

It seems to me more than garden-variety alcoholism is going on here. She seems to perhaps be severely mentally ill, to me, and I don't think you are trained to deal with that. Most of us aren't.

In the meantime, you don't deserve to be treated as you are, and you don't have to stick around for it. Dr. Phil says--I'd rather be in a box under a bridge than........

There's the National Domestic Abuse Hotline you can call. You can Google it. A local church might be able to help you or direct you to people who can help you I am assuming you are a woman? There are women's shelters in most towns. Maybe they are for physically battered women only. If so, they could perhaps give you a number to call for help.

You could go to a hospital, sit in the waiting room, and ask to speak to a chaplain.

Good luck. As I said, or meant to--people with more experience than I have will come along soon.

We are glad you reached out. Keep coming back. We want to know how it goes.

All Best,
Temple

loranard · Member

Thank you for your welcome and kind words and also your quick reply. Every time i begin to try and worry about myself she calls me selfish. I had tried to leave and stayed at my dad's for 3 days. I did things for and by myself and it felt great, as I've never done that. I would go over to help her bandage her hand before work and she holds that over my head too. I told her I needed time apart and agreed to a separation and again, it's being held over my head. what if I choose to go to an al-anon meeting and she wants to come or calls me selfish? I've read alot about them and I do want to go. it is most definitely more than alcoholism and I'm very worried becsuse she is unstable.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome Lora You are not alone Dealing with the disease of alcoholism is very confusing and frustrating. Alanon is a organization that was founded to help people who live with this disease and I urge you to search out face to face meetings which are held in most communities .

The hot line number is in the white pages. Here you will learn how to focus your energy on yourself not engage with the insanity and how important it is to protect yourself from the violence by calling 911 if you are hurt. KEEP COMING BACK THERE IS HOPE

JerryF · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Lora and welcome to the board...you sound very qualified to be a member of The Al-Anon Family Groups and MIP. The responses you have already received are very supportive and if you take them to heart and follow the suggestions they make changes will start to rise.

Alcoholism is a very cunning, powerful and baffling disease take our experiences for it and when it has risen to the things you are experiencing it also mentions being fatal. The fatalities don't only happen to the drinker they also include the family member in many and various ways.

This is a disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions, separately or altogether and we don't cause it, we cannot control it and certainly will not be able to cure it.

The suggestion to care for yourself is prime. The disease has already crossed the border against your own peace of mind and serenity.

We are here to support you from our own experiences, strengths and hopes and we cannot do it for you. We will tell you where we came from, what we learned and how we handle it now and we will share that. Protect yourself and us from your alcoholic she has crossed boundaries and physically harmed herself which brings danger closer than usual.

Contacting a Behavioral Health Therapist who is experienced with the diseases of addiction can help.

In support. (((((hugs))))) smile

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Good morning Lora and welcome to MIP. So glad that you found us and joined right in to share. As mentioned above, Alcoholism is cunning, baffling, powerful and progressive. It's also considered a family disease as most family and some friends are often sucked into the insanity of the disease and develop unhealthy ways of coping and dealing with the person and the disease.

Al-Anon provided me a framework to be, think, do and respond differently. Relief came to me early on when I heard the three C's - I didn't Cause This, I can't Control This and I can't Cure This. This simple concept helped me to work on accepting Alcoholism as a disease instead of a choice.

By practicing this program as best I can, I am better able to have peace in my life no matter what others are/are not doing. I too encourage you to seek out meetings and attend to just get a feel for how it all works. We encourage folks to attend with an open mind, looking for the similarities instead of the differences. I found commonality in my emotions, reactions, feelings, etc.

We do not offer advice but do suggest you do whatever's necessary to keep yourself safe. As mentioned above, please reach out to local officials in any case of abuse. Please keep coming back and know you are not alone! There is hope and help in recovery.

PosiesandPuppies · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome Lora. I am sorry for what brings you here, but glad that you are willing to share. You have already received such good ESH (Experience, Strength, Hope).
Know that when I first arrived, I didn't take much stock in all the sayings and slogans, but after a year and a few months in (working the program) I now understand them deep within my heart and soul and not only that, and I believe in them!

Al-Anon does not advocate giving advice, except in instances of danger. So, I want to say to you: you do not have to put up with this abuse. It is both mental/emotional and physical abuse. Please look into Domestic Violence Shelters near you. They can help you be safe & help you to disentangle yourself from the abuse. Then you can begin working on YOU. Perhaps only then can you look at your marriage. Be safe first!

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Your story is all too familiar Lora..... as to whether this behavior is 'common' among active alcoholics - let's just say nothing in there are things that the collective group hasn't heard/seen before....

The reality is that she is very sick in her disease, and that her disease is trying to drag you down with it/her.

I'm pleased that you took the positive step of reaching out here.... going to face-to-face Al-Anon meetings will also help a great deal.... I'd also strongly encourage you to get yourself a copy of "Getting Them Sober", volume one, written by Toby Rice Drews. That book literally saved my life and/or my sanity, and helped me get an understanding of not only what she was going through, but also of what I needed to do, in order to not get dragged into the muck

Keep coming back

Tom

loranard · Member

I am so very appreciative for all of you and your willingness to be here for me when you dont know me. it warms my heart. i dont think i have anywhere else to turn but i would love to attend al-anon meetings so i can have some people around me face to face who are going through similar things.

my wife has been sober for 6 says. she joined AA a month ago but has had a couple slip ups. when she wants to drink, she makes sure it happens and there is no stopping her, but she has been doing great with not drinking. shes starting to notice that she reacts to things with less anxiety and that is a big step. she has been drinking nonstop for 16 years and i know this is going to be a hard process.

although she is sober for a few days and doing great, she is still talking down to me and reminding me of my shortcomings constantly we have been arguing for close to 3 months straight and it had started to get progressively worse. i used to cry myself to sleep almost daily as a result of her saying hurtful things to me, in which she then told me i was crying for myself and to stop throwing myself a pity party.

she has a lot of problems with the way that i am as a person and says that im bringing my upbringing into our family and she will not have it. in the same breath, she is treating me exactly as her alcolic parents treated her. i have a hard time grasping this concept. all of our problems are my fault and she expects me to sit there and listen to her explain her pain that was caused by me and tell me how she does not love me snd does not see a future with me.

2 months ago she found out that her dad was terminally ill and did not know how to feel about it as he never showed her love and was a belligerant and violent alcoholic who severely abused her. at first i tried to bring it up lightly and she did what she usually does...change the subject and tell me that im giving her anxiety and stress and didnt want me to ruin her day. she spent 2 weeks on the couch, refusing to eat, shower, or do anything, and she just drank. i researched online ways to be there for her emotionally. i even researched ways to be there for her physically. many sites suggested making her favorite meal. which is thanksgiving dinner with an apple pie. so i did just that. she still to this day holds it ovet my head that thats not love. makes fun of me for it. ill ask her if theres something i can do to make her feel better and she says why dont you make me an apple pie?

i started to react angrily to her talking to this way and it only got worse for me. if i told her it hurt me she called me selfish and said i only cared about myself. i would spend my nights and weekends with her being hammered and explaining to me how horrible of a person i am and listing the ways ive hurt her. i tried to get her to wat and suggested going to visit family and it never mattered. she would lay in bed next to me and talk for over an hour how im verbally abusive, the worste lerson shes ever met in her life and called me a monster. she could say whatever she wanted to me and i had to listen because it was my fault that she was hurting so much. i wasnt there for her. and to this day, i still tell her that she pushed me away, because its true. many times she told me she wanted a divorce and threw her ring at me.

she said i stood over her with cold, dead eyes while she threatened suicide. and i suppose shes right, because i grew very cold and distant. i have been taking sleeping pills for 6 months because of the stress and constant repetitive thoughts about all the horrible things she has said to me. i was always angry, defensive, paranoid, and anxious. it wasnt until i started to say things back that it got REALLY bad. i stood up for myself while she constantly beat me down with her words and manipulate my mind to believe that she was right and that im an abusive monster. it was at the point where i was literally offering to go to anger management. anger management and i never once believed the problem was me. i told her she made me angry and she told me that its not something that can be caused by someone else, its who i am as a person. yet she can say that i make her drink.

during the hand injury i previously mentioned was when i finally had had enough. she holds it over my head that i left her at that point. it was about a week before christmas. she says i left her in her darkest hour and that i only care about myself. when i ledt i told her that i was on the verge of losing my mind. i told her that all i could hear was her voice screaming things at me over and over and told her that i dont feel safe or comfortable at home anymore. but none of that mattered to her. all that mattered is her feelings and how ive hurt her and how i make her want to kill herself and she needs xanax or vallium to be around me. i left for myself, to feel safe, to clear my head. she refused to hear it.

last night we laid in bed and for over 2 hours she told me how she didnt love me. she doesnt love any part of me..heart, mind, body, or soul. i just lay there and took it. no matter what my reaponse is it is taken the wrong way. she got out of bed to smoke a cigarette and i laid there and sobbed. she came back to bed and i was still crying but i wrapped around her. i was very upset and was shaking my leg snd focusing on my breathing to relax. i fell asleep. then she woke me up and told me that i was a cold piece of shit for falling asleep after she told me that she didnt love me. she said that i used to cry more and that i only cried for a show and only felt bad for myself. i didnt cry enough and didnt care that she told me that she didnt love me. i was in disbelief i got up to go pee and she asked me if i was leaving and i yelled no im going pee! she lost it and said that how ive been being nice to her is all an act and that im fake and i just gave her attitude. she told me to sleep on the couch after that. i started to cry again and was told im throwing myself another pity party.

over the past 7 days i gave been literally everything i can to make her happy. ive been going to meetings with her and doing alot of reaearch and trying to learn about this disease. ive been patient, kind, motivating, supportive, attentive and loving. yet she keeps bringing up how much ive hurt her. every wrong thing that ive done in her eyes, she brings it up and i say "i thought we were trying to move forward in a positive way, i thought the best apology was changed behavior?" and it doesnt matter. she tells me she keeps bringing it up because i havent fixed it yet. not one thing that i do or say is enough!

i am so incredibly frustrated and am also still hurting because of what has been going on in our lives. i dont know how much more that i can take. i dont want to leave her but i do not want to live the rest of my life like this. it is literally as if everything she yells at me is actually how she feels about herself. she needs help and i think she is actually coming around to accept that. i mentioned marriage counseling today and she said she wants to go to counseling doe herself first. but if i had said that, id be called selfish. but she can worry about herself and not our marriage. it is so difficult for me to keep my composure and my family has no idea about her alcoholism.

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Lora--

We went to a party early in our marriage. There was a game, and the hostess selected my husband and a girl guest to be "Its"

Each of them lay on the floor and was covered with a blanket. They were instructed to pass out something they could do without. Husband passed out his belt. Repeat. His wallet.
Repeat--a shoe, Repeat--the other shoe. On the next command, he sat up, suddenly sober and declared: "I do not need this blanket!"

And I would ask you--why do you think you need this blanket? Why do you think you need to be treated this way? It can stop in the blink of an eye when you decide that whatever
benefit you have been telling yourself you derive from this relationship is not worth the pain and humiliation. In my opinion.

Have you heard us?

We care. Keep coming back. I hope you find a meeting. There is comfort and understanding and help there.

And unless you are estranged from your family, why not tell them what you've been experiencing? Surely they would want better for you and would be a source of caring and safety.

Hugs,
Temple

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

((Loranard)) It does sound as if you are in the midst of the insanity Please try to find face to face meetings and attend. I found that the literature , such as the daily readers, the detachment folder and the Just for today bookmark were all extremely helpful .

Trying to reason with the disease is a waste of time. You are right, I believe that the alcoholic accuses others of defects that they see and dislike in themselves-- this is not to say that we are perfect it is important for us to look within and address any issue that might be hurting you. a;anon tools helped me to do just that.
keep coming back and sharing you are not alone.

loranard · Member

you are both right. i do not know why i feel as though i need this "blanket." she has helped me so much in the past. weve only been together for 18 months, married for 6 months. i didnt want to tell my family anything. after our wedding, my wife and her family expressed that they felt extremely disrespected by my family at the wedding. i never understood the points they were making. i think theyve all have lived in their own little bubble forever and any differences are seen as bad. i grew distant from my own family after this. even my twin sister. they were and are still hurt about this, but i felt pressured to agree with my new wife. 6 months later and she still brings up how ive never fixed that problem. how ive never made things right.

she claims thst i only hold loyalty with my family, and not her. my sister showed me texts from my wife from a year ago and my wife is telling her how much she envies our family and how she would never get between my sister and i. tells me she loves how close we all are. i was literally baffled. she had NEVER said those things to me.

i finally did go to my family and i was belittled for it. she said to me, how dare you go to them! how dare you go to people who disrespect me! youre 35 years old Lora and you still run back ro your family! again, i am shocked at these statements. she says things to me that are totally outlandish to the point where i am speechless. i have been talking to them alot and always have to lie about it and delete texts. my wife does not go through my phone but i delete them just in case. i am in constant fear that she will find out what ive told them.

they have no clue shes an alcoholic and im embarassed to tell them. what if things work out between my wife and i?! they will never accept her because of the things that ive said. i believe id they knew EVERYTHING that they would physically remove me. and i kind of wish they would.

i feel bad saying that but honesty is key in this process. i spoke to my wife a couple of hours ago and she already goes to 2 AA meetings a night, but said she was willing to attend al-anon with me if we can find one that works for me as i work 2nd shift. i think she is going to experience alot of pain when we go. i think she will understand how i feel and why i left.

but the question i ask myself a lot is, is she ready and willing to accept that shes been wrong? i dont think she is. i also ask myself if i really think this is worth it and if i do want to stay. if she doesnt accept and admit that she has been wrong and can not move past that, then it s going to be impossible.

where do i find the text that youve mentioned for me to read? im still trying to find an al-anon meeting for us. and also, i have been reading the big book.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Once again Here are the links to some of the important literature:

www.al-anon-sc.org/detachment.html avisionforyou.com/product/courage-to-change-al-anon-daily-meditation/
The daily reader is available for purchase at this site. We also post our thoughts on the readers here each day

www.nycalanon.org/store/p110/Just_for_Today%2C_Al-Anon_Bookmark.html

Freetime · ~*Service Worker*~

{{{Lora}}}, I am sorry you are going through this. Just a suggestion, as you are looking for an Al-Anon meeting. I went to Al-Anon meetings by myself, and still do. One of the reasons is that the program helps us focus on ourselves, as we are the only person we can change. Also if our alcoholic loved one -- or whatever person we are having difficulty with -- is at the meeting, it could be more difficult for us to feel comfortable, open, and honest. And as you mentioned, your wife might feel a lot of pain on hearing what is shared there, and that is not the intention of Al-Anon meetings. It is to relieve our own pain and heal ourselves.

The Al-Anon journey is a big undertaking -- but well worth it. Some of what we learn takes time to absorb. As my mind became clearer -- which honestly took me a few months of meetings and reading and having a sponsor -- I was better able to make good decisions in the moment.

All the best to you, and I am so glad you found us.

loranard · Member

i know they are for me to go to alone, i dont think that is going to fly at all. i would love to go alone, trust me. im not sure what to do about this.

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Lora: you got excellent suggestions (we all it ESH----experience, strength and hope) so i can't offer anything that wouldn't be repititious...I would re-read everyone's shares to you and take heart...Being with this lady, in her condition , sounds very dangerous until she gets SERIOUS help.......remember the 3 C's...You didn't cause this...You will never control this.....AND, you will never cure this...Please, get to alanon meets, fac2fac if you can so the elders can give you direction...Also, it wouldn' hurt to know where there is a domestic abuse shelter in case things get really scary...and of course there is 911 if she is a threat to herself and to you

I'm glad you found us, Al-anon is for US to recover US..its not about the alcoholic..Oh I know when you first get in, yea, there is stuff you need to get out of your system and Al-anon meets and a sponsor would be the thing to do for that and to guide you in caring for you..discovering you....finding out WHERE do you want to be in a year??? 5 years???? I agree with temple..She sounds seriously ill...A hazzard to be around...Al-anon will help you decide WHERE YOU want to be...what is best for YOU....and to keep the focus on YOU and taking care of YOU

IN SUPPORT

loranard · Member

how do i tell her that they arent for her to attend? how do i tell her that its for me to attend so i can worry about myself? that is is not going to go well.

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

how do i tell her that its for me to attend so i can worry about myself?

***********************************
When I got into recovery, I was already separated..In fact we separated because I wanted help...He did not....

to me?? Al-anon is our "spirit hospital" does your mate expect to attend your colonoscopy?? or body scan for issues??? I would take them aside WHEN things are calm and just SAY "I've got to get into Al-anon to learn how to feel better...be better...think better, I am troubled, sick in my heart and I want to, NEED to get into Al-anon to get me well" and just DO IT!!!! I would not say to someone with her obvious mental issues that you only want to worry about you...I would word it sorta like what I said...and then I would say, if there is argument "I've already started things in motion---I'm going" and then if something is said again, against it, I would say something like "its for the best" keep it non confrontational, be loving, kind, yet firm in your decision to save you!!!! I would have a bag hidden somewhere in case I had to "bail" at a moments notice...I would keep my cell phone in my pocket in case you gotta run, now....(When I was married to abusive EX #!, I had bag hidden in neighbors yard --they knew it was there and why) I would also know where I am running!!! DV shelter or a trusted friend..and if she goes crazy enough that you have to run, maybe a call to 911 for police to check up on her....

Sounds like you have a rattle snake by the head and you can't let go of it, because it may bite......I'm not being sarcastic, I am serious...PLEASE come back....Salvation is here---in Al-anon...Her behavior is going to keep dragging you down until you just break down and end up in lockdown in some hospital...I know...My parents (drinking and other forms of abuse) caused ME to have a breakdown and they aint fun!!! I was a young person and back in those days it wasn't "talked about" so they drugged me out in this clinic for me to "rest" then began my life on medication...my here and there therapy due to financial lack helped some, but this program literally saved me....

PLEASE keep coming back...You took your first step reaching out to us....that probably will be the scariest part...Wait till you get into the meets and be "loved to pieces" by genuine, folks who are in recovery and who will accept you AS IS and unconditionally....I'll never forget my first meet...it was a good one and sadly they disbanded....its been hard to find Al-anon meets since, so I go online...it has worked fine for me....Just getting it out AND seeing there IS a solution and there is HOPE and PROMISE for a better life if one just works the program and all its parts........meetings....12 steps work...getting a sponsor to guide you thru the steps, et al......practicing the slogans.....sharing adn caring with others.....wait till you get deep into it...You will know.....You are HOME!!!!!

-- Edited by mamalioness on Wednesday 9th of January 2019 12:01:11 AM

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Im sorry your going through this but also happy you have reached out for help. This could be the beginning of real amazing change for you and your wife. I can relate to all you have shared, the verbal abuse was part of my experience living with alcoholics and its very damaging to your self esteem.

When I arrived in Alanon I was at the end of the line in terms of trying to change my views, behaviour, looks, effort, etc to make things better. I realised after years that I couldn't change this and I needed help and within 6 months my life had changed for the better.

Alanon is a program of recovery for those affected by alcoholism. The disease of alcoholism left me with symptoms just like any disease has a set of symptoms. Mine were anger, bitterness, resentment, negative and distorted thought processes and many more. However, I thought there was nothing wrong with me and I just had to get everyone else to change. Wasn't I trying my hardest and doing the best I could? Yes I was but the disease is bigger than all my efforts.

Alanon taught me that I was entitled to a good life with peace and happiness. I learned how to set clear boundaries that didnt involve discussions, explanations etc. These were useless. I learned I had to remove my body from any verbal abuse or unwanted conversations or drama etc. So I did, i found it very hard at first but I just told my loved one that I wasnt prepared to have this conversation and I would talk later on and I left the room, on occasion they followed so I left the house, calmly of course but making it clear again I wasnt prepared to listen to negative conversations at that time. You have to show people how you want to be treated not tell them.

I hope this helps and I hope you get to an Alanon meeting, my life depended on it along with many others here.

KT2015 · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Lora hugs to you. I am glad that you came to this board and I hope you find an Al Anon meeting. The meeting is for you and focuses on you.
You have received a lot of excellent messages already. I will just share with you what my Al Anon meetings have helped me to learn even though my situation isn't quite the same. I've learned the three Cs with my AH. I didn't cause his alcoholism or his behaviour, I can't control it and I can't cure it. When I learned to let go of trying to do those three things I could see that no matter what I did or didn't do he was going to drink or he was going to behave the way he was going to behave. I can't CAUSE him to drink, I can't make his life better or worse only he can do that.

el-cee describes setting boundaries in a similar way that I did. I won't repeat it because she describes it so clearly. I too learned to show people how to treat me.

Please take care of your physical and emotional wel lbeing. It's not only ok to do but very important. It sounds as though your AW has some extreme behaviours associated with her disease and personality. This may make it harder to step away for your own well being but you do have a right to do that. I've learned that unfortunately I'm not the best person to help my AH when he's not in a good place. I've learned to be ok with that and to encourage him to seek support form others (even professionals). I don't have to be the one to save him anymore. That's how much Al Anon has helped me. You have a right to a happy life and I hope that you find your way toward it. All the best.

loranard · Member

you guys are all simply amazing and have opened my eyes :) i am so excited to get into the face2face meetings and meet some people who can relate with me. its so nice to know that a program like al-anon exists and can help people like us handle life and ourselves and our emotions.

ive been wanting to get my wife into this place that is a recovery center that is ran by people in recovery. they have recovery and life coaches, and we found out today al-anon meetings! we got her registered there and into an outpatient program that offers many different avenues for recovery. her first appointment is tomorrow. her case worker mentioned how the al-anon meetings were for me and i dont think she fully understood. they are on thursdays at 10am, so next week is my first one! while on the phone with the outpatient facility, they mentioned a 10:30 appointment for her and i said to her, what about the al-anon meeting tomorrow, her caseworker had to remind me about the one next week. she told me that i was selfish to bring up the meeting and she doesnt expext anything less from me. she thinks al-anon is for me to learn about her recovery. maybe it was selfish of me to bring it up, but i think its also important for me to go to the meeting. she says i thought my meeting was more important than her recovery and also told me that her recovery is her battle and i cant make it about me

after we left the recovery center today she told me that they are suggesting a 4 hour a day intensive outpatient program and medication that will make her sick if she does drink and that made her very nervous. she said she likes the idea of having the ability to control whether she drinks or not on the back burner. she is still questioning whether or not shes an alcoholic. when she was on the phone with the outpatient facility, the caseworker asked me how many beers she has a day and i said, as far as i know 6-12 a day. then he asked me for how long has that been going on? and i said, 18 months, as long as ive known her. when we left she asked why i lied, she said i know shes been drinking for longer. i said yes i do know that but he didnt ask me that and i didnt know you drank more than 12 a day. she told me sometimes she drank 18 a day, and i didnt know that. she admitted to me last week that she has been drinking nonstop and heavily since she was 15. so that means she lied to the caseworker when she said 10 or 12 years, because so it has actually been 15 years.

i just spoke with her on the phone and she told me she wants to go live in texas with her friend who lives in a domicary (sp?) for army veterans who need life coaches and will help with her recovery. she said she wants to get away from me because she feels unsafe around me. i was astonished. that is exactly how she makes me feel. she says i punish her when she tells me how she feels. she would rather me listen ro her tell me nonstop what a piece of s***t i am and how ive destroyed her life. i have heard her tell me a million times and lately ive been telling her that i thought we were moving forward positively. thats what i say when she constantly brings up this pain ive caused her. i dont bring up what shes done and have been doing nothing but trying to be different and show her i can be a better person. but my efforts are thwarted and called basic.

the other night i laid in bed next to her as she told me she didnt love me, my heart, my mind, my soul. she told me my heart was a black void and she couldnt stand me. then she left the room to have a cigarette while i sobbed. she came back and i was still crying a little as i was in shock at what she said. i was shaking my leg repetitively but i wrapped around her anyway and began focusing on my breathing. this lulled me to sleep. she then woke me up by yelling at me saying what a cold piece of shit that i was. she said i used to cry more. i wasnt crying enough she said. again, i feel as though that was conpletely outlandish. this girl needs serious help bad. i hope she gets it like she says shes going to because she has had a very very hard life and i feel for her i really do. but i cant guarantee that i will be there when she finally realizes that it isnt me. does that make me a bad person? should i stick with al-anon before making any permanent decisions?

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Excessive drinking causes insanity. It is just like someone losing their mind. It's helpful not to take it seriously (hard as that is), because it is insanity talking, not the real person, whoever that is. The real person probably doesn't even know how she feels at any given moment, there is so much insanity going on.

You asked how you get to meetings alone. Alcoholics go to enormous lengths to try to insist on the fiction that "Everything's fine, there's no problem." This means that often they try to control us, through manipulation and getting mad. They try to make us behave as if their drinking is not a problem. Pitching a fit when we go to Al-Anon is one of the tactics. (There are also 10,000 other tactics.) And we have usually been taught to be caretakers of other people's emotions. So if someone is angry, we get very worried and feel as if it's unbearable and it's our responsibility to make them not angry.

In truth their emotions are their own responsibility. If they want to be angry, they're free to do that. (And if them being angry happens to control us, they want to do it over and over. When we change our behavior if they get angry, that's a reward for them! Like reinforcing behavior when a dog does a trick. They got angry, it worked! So they get angry the next time even faster.) But the thing is that if we calmly go about our business even if they're angry, eventually they give up on that tactic. By eventually I mean in several weeks.

This doesn't apply if they have a tendency towards violence. If that's the case, then we need to be very careful to avoid making them angry as much as we can, while - this is the important part - making a plan for our own safety and getting away from them for good, probably with the help of professionals such as advice from a Domestic Violence Shelter.

But assuming she's not a violent person, you can calmly go to a meeting. If she tries to follow you and be at the meeting too, you can ask the people there what their procedure is. It sounds like she could benefit from Al-Anon too, since she has alcoholics in the family. But of course you also need your own meetings without her listening to you.

Take good care of yourself.

Hbgchick · Member

WOW! Just joined this group and Lora....I feel for you! I can't say I've been there exactly, but sort of have in lesser form. The blame, mostly. Always my fault, everything. Never hers. I am not saying I don't have faults, I do. But I know for sure that most of the things she blames me for are NOT my fault. Not at all. Just in the short time I've been here (which is something like...an hour!) I have already found two sayings that I love....

Mamalioness said it very well: "Sounds like you have a rattle snake by the head and you can't let go of it, because it may bite.". That's EXACTLY RIGHT. I have one of those, too. Also, "You didn't cause this...You will never control this.....AND, you will never cure this..."

I know that the best thing I can do is just let my wife divorce me and get away from the toxicity that is my life right now. BUT. That's so much easier said than done, when you truly love someone. My wife 'used' to have a wonderful side, but I realize now that the alcohol took that over completely and I have been living with the 'other' side for well over a year, now. Still, it's hard to let go of what you 'think' you have/had with a person (and I'm speaking only for myself), even when that perception is maybe not so accurate. I thought her getting sober would change her in some magic fashion, but it did not. She's not going to meetings, not getting any kind of help at all, so everything that caused her to drink in the first place is still there, and it's still my fault. In my case, I also "made her stop drinking" (when in reality, it was her health and what she'd done to her body that made her stop drinking), so that's one more thing that she's angry at me for. My fault. And in my case, SHE is leaving ME, but....that's probably best. I would have tried to stick it out but if she's not going to get help then nothing is ever going to change. If, someday, she comes around, that's one thing. But I can't spend my life waiting for that.

Sorry, didn't mean for that to be all about 'me', all I meant to say is that I truly, TRULY understand where you are coming from, Lora!

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"