The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
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information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I have been working hard on my recovery with breaks in between so I do not get overwhelmed. I am accessing one on one therapy along with reading on line here and I had a break through. I have been dating two different type of men. One that is sober and does not drink and we get along very well and another that is a functioning alcoholic, though he does not admit to it. Who do you think I like the most? the functioning alcoholic. When I was in therapy, I thought why am I so attracted to the drinking alcoholic? 1st its familiar. I grew up in an alcoholic home with all its drama and craziness. I lived in survival mode all my life. I am use to hearing lies and not having consistency with a partner. I do not know what honesty is. I realized I am attracted to the active alcoholic because the alcoholic lives in two different words, the one of fantasy and the real one when he is sober. There is two different people functioning. Its inconstant. I live in a fantasy world as well and that is why I am so attracted to the active alcoholic. I function from the child perspective when I am with the active alcoholic and believe in the fantasy and the lies that he says and take it to heart. So if I were to to get honest with myself, I am cheating myself and hurting myself by spending time with the active alcoholic. I need to face reality and stand up for me and be with honest, caring truthful people rather than someone who is drunk and unstable. I need to grow up emotionally and say no, I deserve better then lies and inconsistency. The man that is sober, a non drinker, is teaching me this as I spend time with him and he is present and available. I spoke with my therapist about this and she said the sober man is teaching me and its a good thing. I feel I am learning so much about what I want in a partner and its a huge learning experience for me. I just had to share my insight about what I have been learning. Thanks for letting me share. Your feedback would be good!
There is a real truth about addicts .. they are funny .. charming .. know all the right things to say .. and when they are on .. they are on .. it is intense and exciting. The drama and its so easy to get sucked in. I can't remember I think it was Mary pearl who said in her talks .. I am attracted to mood altering men. Yes .. in part to how I was raised (no boundaries and no never meant no) my mom and her real fear and projected fear left me in a state of constant chaos. It also left me feeling angry as that was apparently the only emotion I was allowed to have. I didn't pick my 2 ex's by accident. I am learning to sit in the discomfort of what I want .. as much as I adore and love my current boyfriend I would do some serious work before contemplating a new relationship. I have more work to do. I really encourage you to just take your time. Women specifically buy into the .i'm not a woman unless I have a man .. and that's just not true. Big hugs and keep the focus on you. Nice share s :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Great share joker,after reading your share ,made me think a bit of how I'm really attracted to alcoholics/ addicts ,that's all I've ever knew as well,
I'm sorta in a active alcoholic relationship now ,sorta because I really don't hardly ever see him ,he has a lot of the traits of an alcoholic,inconsistently being huge one,
He knows how I feel about alcoholism ,he knows I'm not an alcoholic ,
Maybe reason I only see him maybe 1 or 2 x a month.times more.
I'm just fine with that ,my tolerance has grown lesser n lesser to the desease,an I still got lots more to work on myself,before I'd even want to get into a healthy relationship,this is just me ,I just want to be n get healthy ,it is a slow process ,one day at a time,needing to keep myself in check ,not that I'm trying to be perfect I'm just wanting to be able to make healthier decisions and enforcing them into my life,thank you for sharing ,I can see your growth ,it looks good on you,,,keep on a keeping on........LU
((Joker)) great awareness I too discovered how much i was attracted to alcoholics while working the Steps. Today I am with a supportive, non judgmental man for over 30 years. I find that he is charming and considerate in his own way and I can see where, in my youth I might have considered him boring.
So glad that my picker has changed and I can care for the man with less drama and more compassion. Keep on working the program you are doing great
Wonderful self-awareness, Joker! Thank you for the honest share of your progress!
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"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
(((Joker))) - way to work it! I too had a broken/unhealthy picker and believed deep down that life would be boring with a sane/sober person. Today, I am incredibly grateful for my boring life - and my active A(s) are still 'with me' and around. As I've changed, many things that used to affect me, bother me, get under my skin, etc. no longer do as I see them as a reflection on the person and not a dig at me!
Keep doing you - looks great....glad to here you've found a caring person to be with! (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thank you for your share. I dont know that I considered life boring without an alcoholic . I certainly was accustomed to the drama as I grew up in a dysfumctional.family
Today I focus on being a partner to myself Being a support to.myself. I focus less and less on others with substance abuse issues. The irony is the more I.detach the more I.am aware how much.suffering there is in alcoholism No one really.wants to.party non.stop all the time.
I.was fixated on having a partner most of my life Mow for me at least that is not a goal I.am interested in pursuing Before that partnership was about the only thing of interest for ne in my entire life.
(((((((((((((Joker))))))))))))))) Dunno HOW I missed your awesome share...OMG>...meeee toooo till I began to really work on me and change my insides before I can change my "whos outside of me" but oh yea, I was attracted by the charming, glib, usually attractive alcoholic......now??? I can't be around them...Its like I see my neighbor next door who is like family to me , I love him to death, but when he is drinking, I hide..I just stay away until he is sober...
they don't turn me on anymore because I've changed....now it hasn't been tested, but just in my regular circle, I see that it turns me off, the drinking, getting high, acting loud or stupid.....I want a nice, "boring" sober, mutual, emotionally available, responsible, consistent, trustworthy "bore" like ME....I want someone who fits with the NOW me...
I hear ya mate, and I am so glad U see it...seeing the issue is to defeat/overcome it....good on you and what an honest, open share, I really related to what you said...sooo much of it HUGS
(((Joker))) I had that deep and long lasting desire to answer the question WHY? also. I chased the elders of the program and those who exhibited deep awareness in order to learn more and taking guidance in the first 17 years of program I came to understand more...not all, just more. I went to college to understand how the program worked and how I worked within it and was encouraged by my sponsor to keep on keeping on also because I was chosen to consider being a therapist in a large in/out rehab in central California and added leadership experience with in the recovery world of women and youth...LOL the involvement with males was mutually oppositional back then.
I have done two variations of the inventory steps 4 and 10 the second one focusing on the male/me aspect in regard to alcoholism. My male aspect added to and often exacerbated the problems I had in the disease including not being willing and then able to examine my own use and consequences. Simply said, "I dated and married the women I drank with and my alcoholic/addict wished she could drink like me which was life threatening. I believe both forms of inventory helped to answer the question Why a lot.
My last 5th step was done with a bishop in the Catholic religion and when I was finished he stated..."I have never met with and examined the conscience of anyone who knew themselves as you do." Program will do that for those who wish to get to know the one person the didn't know while the disease raged; themselves.
Why you are attracted to active alcoholics in a very important question and the answer I believe has so much to do with the characteristic of enabling and co-dependency which can make the insanity we suffer from grow beyond any boundaries including the presence of a Power Greater than myself.
There were so very many reasons I was attracted and didn't know that I didn't know what, where and how they were.
Sending prayers, love and support for your inventories. Joker needs to know. (((((hugs)))))
Dear (((((Jerry))))) answer I believe has so much to do with the characteristic of enabling and co-dependency which can make the insanity we suffer from grow beyond any boundaries including the presence of a Power Greater than myself.
OMG....this explains it all to me....being attracted to the alkies, fed into my co-dependency...It was not just my familiar zone, but it fed into MY disease....WOOOOOW!!!!!!! thank you for this big 20000 watt light bulb moment.....fix or manage MY disease, (which it seems i am, hence my not wanting to be around them anymore) and i change my life in the process...change my thinking/habits...Change my associations...........GRATEFUL hugs, Brother Jerry
I was definitely fixated on the issue of #why# Generally it was about #why# the alcoholic drank I think a lot of it was also about how attached I became early in in the relationship
In many of my relationships the alcoholic showed his true colors very early on I just didn't want to see it.
I still find myself over valuing the perceptions and feelings of alcoholics The issue is now I catch myself doing it.
When people in the program talked about detaching with lice that felt pretty near impossible for me Alcoholics triggered so much for me Learning to watch my triggers has been so key for me
For me personally the attraction to the alcoholic has lessened and I believe that is because I value myself so much more these days That would not have been possible for ne without al anon.
Hey Maresie , eyp..the more i value ME??? the more I want equal relationships...EQUAL in that it is a mutual, healthy, open, honest relationship.....they always say "birds of a feather flock together" I see that as true...as I lose my dysfunctional thinking, I don't want to be around dysfunctional people....Like Jerry said in his post, As I manage MY disease, I don't want to or need to "feed it" being around one who would bring out my disease...If that makes sense....As I get better, i want to be around better people...when i say "better people" I mean folks who are in a better place...
Great topic joker and wonderful responses. I certainly had my share of adventures too being attracted to active alcoholics. I got a lot out of it back then. My FOO includes functioning alcoholics so I tended to be drawn to functioning alcoholics successful in their careers. These were the big personalities, the ones whose greatest talent was being the life of the party and the one everyone had been waiting for. Oh and typically finances were there so everyone was getting something out of it. That was the one component missing in my FOO, just every day people getting by. So I was not just attracted to active alcoholics, I was blindsided by their positions in society. Life was exciting with them and I was the one special enough to be with them or so I believed back then. Fantasy actually turned to real life. Hop on a plane spur of the moment, party here party there, no real emotional attachment because of course keeping in control keeps you from getting hurt. So yes, being raised with alcoholism, I was accustomed to my feelings being invalidated and then developed the ability to minimize then invalidate them myself. So everything was at a superficial level for me in these relationships which of course were really not relationships at all. Not a self actualized person, I was happy to tag along and not question, confused about my true wants and needs which seemed incidental. Surely, they had done something right because so many of them had so many friends and success by world standards. It has been a very interesting ride to finding myself through the grace of God, this program and a professional outside this program. Today my insides and outsides are more aligned in a healthy way. Working the steps helped me to feel, deal and heal past emotional wounds. I no longer seek out emotionally unavailable (good time) people because I'm available, consider what I want, how I feel and if a person is someone who will add or detract from my life before inviting them into my life. I love myself enough to consciously choose. Thanks to Alanon. I have a loving partner who shares my life and loves themself. I no longer attach myself to people places and things as a measure of my self worth. My partner is a recovering alcoholic. We have both had the experience of losing everything and being left with ourself. We have both surrendered our lives. We enjoy simple day with gratitude. Alanon has truly been a journey to self love and then sharing that love outward for me. Thanks for sharing your awareness and recovery ((joker)) TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
Joker, thank you for the excellent post. Very thought provoking, and very insightful.
In the rooms, we often hear the people say "my picker is broken" -- and in my experience, from my perspective, that is, unfortunately, a poor effort at simple oversimplification, and can potentially, ultimately, be nothing more than a label. While I don't think anyone would use that as an excuse, to me it's problem oriented and not solution oriented. JMO. Sure, we can talk all day long about "put me in a room full of people, with one alcoholic, and I'll be attracted to the one alcoholic" and all that, LOL. I get it. I don't dispute that. But I don't believe it is simply because of a broken picker, LOL. There is a lot more behind that -- the why, the dynamic, the actual character traits, attributes, etc., that we see and that we THINK we see. A disconnect, a misread, a misunderstood, etc., is not a broken picker. It is poor process, data, and interpretation, and more.
That said, yes, alcoholics are extroverts, personable, charming, etc., and their personalities can be "seducing" -- not in a sexual way, but alluring, attractive, and flirtatious as it relates to our senses. We sometimes see passion, depth, intensity, in areas that are alluring -- but that is often drama, a little chaos, some turmoil, and more. Both extreme, both intense, both with a lot of depth and scope. There are countless reasons, theories, etc., as to WHY. Figuring out the why for some might be impossible. Others might figure it out. For those that do, figuring out the why might help them. Others it won't. I see it being not about a picker, or anything like that. I see it being about me...the person...how I live my life, my focus, my clarity, my healthy approach when I meet someone, my healthy decision making process. That's what alanon is all about. What words are in the steps? Other than the seventh word of the first step...the words alcohol, alcoholic, or alcoholism...DO NOT APPEAR IN THE STEPS! The steps DO NOT contain the words he, she, they, them, or the like. The steps do have the words...I...US...WE... and so on.
Getting better, living our life, making good decisions, healthy decisions, being healthy, being happy...That's why we go to meetings. To live a healthy life, to make healthy decisions, to have all of the tools and resources so that we can live a happy, healthy, and fulfilled life.
Thanks again for the excellent thread.
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Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
