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What a revealing year. In some ways I want to throw the blanket back over it.
I am struggling with recovery and a parent. Can anyone please tell me what a healthy adult to adult parent child relationship looks like?
Where I am at right now is feeling cynical and suspicious about everything. I am right to be guarded but I do not wish to spend so much time thinking about things and I feel really cold about the way I am thinking. Is it possible to like a person without agreeing with them and their life choices and if so how?
a4l-I'm as damaged as the next person so I don't really want to give "advice." But in thinking about the steps and slogans, combined with a little common sense, will provide you with the answers you need. If you have a sponsor, that person might be able to guide you further. For myself, the healthy relationships I'm working on provide mutual support and caring, and treating each other with respect. There are moments in my life where I love someone (family, spouse) whom I am very angry with and disagree with. Detaching with love is the only way I get through those moments. If people cannot give back to me with what I need, I then set boundaries so as not to allow more damage to myself. Best of luck with your journey! Lyne
Thanks for stopping by Lyne. Common sense in the realm of my treacherous emotion is not to be trusted. In experience I have two go to responses: leave and cut ties or confront and make war. I want neither. It is this coldness that is new to me.....is it ok to not actually like your parents? Does that make one a horrible human being? My actions are diplomatic and polite. But inside I am not feeling whatever it is I have long imagined (?) one is supposed to feel. Warmth. It is new to me. I will sit on it and see what comes; it is very uncomfortable to see this side of myself.
a4l - take what you like and leave the rest as always! I'm 56 and my parents are 83/84. From as long back as I can remember, I was different and a bit of a rebel. I was the youngest and my brothers were way more conforming. I questioned everything and everyone - not necessarily to be evil or rebellious - to understand as I was super inquisitive as a child (still am as an adult).
From pre-teen to about 40 I really did not like them. I was respectful always as I was taught to be that way + I was wickedly awful when this disease took hold of me so bite my tongue often/always with them as part of my living amends. They are extremely judgmental, unforgiving, stoic, cold, etc.
It took some serious acceptance by working the steps to learn how to love them unconditionally. I use the pause often and ask myself to 'seek to understand'. I have been trying for the last 15 years to put myself into the shoes of another I don't understand and while it's been slow, it has been helpful.
Both of my parents are by our definition untreated ACOA. In addition to that, my mother now is a daily drinker who denies having any depression. I am no expert, but suspect she is self-medicating because she is depressed. I have spoken to her about how worried I am for how she's choosing to spend her retirements years, and then let go and let God.
I could go on and on but instead, I just came to the realization that they are no different than me or others. We are all imperfect in some way, shape or form. I believe for me to stay sober, serene, sane and of service, I have to remember this each day, and pray for those I don't understand - that I may accept them unconditionally.
It takes a ton of practice and a true belief in the power of each word in that serenity prayer. I slip at times and really, really want to react to others at times, and just keep falling back on this program, the steps, and my sponsor. I do fundamentally believe that they love me deeply as best they know how to - we're just extremely different in most ways! (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thanks IAH. I feel less alien to have read that. We have had a really enmeshed dynamic for a really long time. I've gone for years long periods of out of sight and literally out of mind which was really good for me in terms of discovering an identity that wasn't smothered before it had a chance to figure itself it out without conflict forming the shape of it. Now, I'm 36 and it is a transition time. Now that there are no ties left to what once bound us, it is like there is nothing at all. I literally feel like I got dropped into a strangers ambit because there is nothing of the old me in relation to her that is left. I am processing a bit of guilt around that and reminding myself that it is healthy and natural to not be some one elses whipping girl emotionally speaking. It is ok to have thoughts, feelings and most of all values that are different to someone else's. It probably sounds completely mad or insane but that has not been permitted and I actually did not see that clearly until now. I have spent years defending and protecting and cleaning up after the parent in my life and at the same time having to play the role of her little girl when it suited her whims. Now, I just don't even have conversations beyond what is necessary. Sometime I feel bad about this coldness. But maybe that is just part of growing up and living? Maybe we don't have to feel what we are "supposed" to feel after all and that is ok. It is a bit awkward as we are in a shared living space. It is not like the western world of houses and ownership; this is a house in customary tenure so my right to live here is somewhat independent of her same right. Well thank you for listening and sharing your esh
a4l - my parents actually disowned me when I left home @ 17. We did not speak for a few years and they refused to pay my school tuition, my medical insurance, etc. At the time, I felt they were absolutely crazy, mean, unloving, etc. Looking back as an adult, it makes perfect sense to me - not that I would be that way but it does make sense to me based on who they are and what they believe.
I have mellowed with age and so have they. Not to say all is hunky-dory always but we've found common ground to spend time together. We have more differences than likeness so when they visit I work to be of service to them. When I go to their home, I do the same. I figure that I am physically, emotionally, spiritually and mentally healthier than them with my program so can take the high road. I still get frustrated with being 'shut-down', told I am wrong, etc. but I let is wash over my shoulders - choosing to be happy instead of right. Yet another area of 'right-fighting' I had to let go and let God have.
As with my A(s), the more I focus on me, detach, establish boundaries, etc. the better things seem. I do know that harboring resentments towards them for past actions only hurt me. My ego and pride really wanted them to 'see me' as I am today vs. as 'who I used to be'. I now know through my own parenting experience that no matter how old/large my boys get, when I look at them, I still see the small creatures they were when they were agreeable, kind, pleasant and loving. I believe my parents will always see me as the baby of the family, the only daughter and the black sheep - all mixed in one - with good and bad memories. I can accept that today as I no longer need their approval of me, my actions, my life, etc.
So - short answer - yes - life and maturity has helped me greatly with what I see and believe is truly important. Time/age does mellow most and an effort to be kind, tolerant, loving and patient really helps me focus on my recovery, my service and my sanity/serenity. Remember always that this too shall pass!! (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
That must have been hard. This end, none of those things were ever provided to begin with. I left school at 13 to work and feed myself, before leaving home at 15. I never thought she was mean. I felt sorry for her and was determined to love her back to happiness. That is one thing I appreciate about my culture and maybe even my upbringing as hard as it was : we are not raised with a sense of entitlement to anything we have not worked or hustled for lol. more hustle for the first half of my life. The difficulty is a parent who has never taken care of herself in any way and rather than confront that failing, attempts to frantically project it on to the one/s soft enough to fall for it in order to be needed and continue to avoid doing the work on self. Undoubtedly there will be some form of emotional retribution forthcoming for not conforming to the rules of the family disease, and that is when I will see just how well this detachment is working for me currently. Either that or she finds a new victim to manipulate. I won't be leaving however. No, it won't be me. On the positive side, I am grateful to see these things now and start to change certain parenting scripts of my own. So I guess nothing is for nothing. Then I look around here and see there are parents with adult children who are actually WILLING to devote some recovery time and processes to those relationships and I feel sad that that isn't my parent on the one hand, but grateful that if needed, I could BE that parent one day too if I stick with the programme. I guess that answers my questions. I'm glad I had the opportunity to process this here out loud. PS: My daughters will not be hustlers, lol! at least not out of need.
Big hugs a4l, .. I don't know the right answer to your original question .. I go with I love my kids however I have times I don't like them (I have no doubt they feel the same way .. LOL .. we are a realist kind of family .. sometimes you like your loved ones and sometimes you don't .. the lucky people like their loved ones 90%+ of the time .. lol). I don't know how to deal with a large level of toxic behavior. I love my dad .. I don't like him. I choose to distance myself from him because we do not meet each others expectations .. I expect him to be the father I deserve and he expects me to be the daughter he deserves and we both walk away feeling the disappointment. I think liking someone is more of a choice where as when it comes to family you get who you get. There is no opting out of childhood.
Boundaries, self care, limiting my time as I can .. taking care of ME first and then giving is the right thing for me to continue to be on a healthier path. I have gotten a different perspective as my emotional health heals about relationships. It really IS about taking care of ME. My oldest is moving out in January .. I would like him to stay however right now that's not a good choice for either of us. Our relationship is strained for a number of reasons. Some of which is the transition (second puberty is coming oohhh the joys). Some of it is the issue of my expectations of his choices at the moment. I'm working on letting those go. Letting go and grieving gender expectations is a big deal .. lol .. so this other stuff has had to wait. The biggest message I have tried to convey to him is that I don't need to understand the why's about the transitioning, ... that will come at some point and maybe it won't .. that's not my journey to take. The unconditional acceptance as his parent .. that's my life lesson and that's all I need to focus on for the transition part of the journey. He's got his own life path .. my job as his parent is to just love him where he's at .. that's all I have to do. I get a bonus that I like him .. however I don't always like the behavior. That's where I see the difference and I think more of what I mean by liking someone. The behavior issue .. is it acceptable or not. However I see that some space between us is not a bad thing .. he needs to learn to adult more and has come to realize I am not the enemy .. I am letting go the best I know how to do. Sometimes I'm not so graceful .. lol.
The issue of no healthy relationship model is another thing that is hard. I have not been around what healthy looks like so I have to find my own version of that and hope that I can instill some of that into my kids through my own behavior as well as their observations. I like to think that has gotten a little better. These are conversations I have had with both of my kiddos at different times. I do not know ANYONE who doesn't become the 5-8 year old child (or whatever the age when massive childhood trauma occurs and what is defined as massive is individual not blanket) around their parent. I have to remind myself my kids are no different and I try to be sensitive to that fact. Their behavior is a direct response .. no different than my behavior with my own parents. Boy my X is going to have his hands full with those two at some point and he's not going to like it.
When it comes to my mom unfortunately I haven't figured that out and may not until the time has passed .. and I'm not sure what to do or if I want to do anything because it's one more thing on my plate. So kudos to you for taking that step .. I imagine that's very difficult I know the challenges that would press me. I am watching a girlfriend of mine care for her terminally ill mother and I'm not sure how I would process that all .. they had a complicated relationship and I am grateful for her having this time with her mom to mend some fences that were long over due however saddened by the fact her mother is truly suffering and it's heart wrenching to know my friend is watching all of this unfold. I'm not a caretaker in a nurse kind of way .. maybe Nurse Ratchet kind of way .. not Florence Nightingale .. LOL. I have a different perspective of a few things .. however with my mom she's very life draining and that's super difficult for me to be around.
I have been letting go of people who negatively impact my life. I don't have a like or dislike about them .. it just is what it is. So do I have to like someone .. no .. I don't .. I don't have to participate in toxic behavior .. I think it's more about do I like who I am when I am around specific people. if the answer is no then it's a change me since that's where my power is, just like the serenity prayer says. Changing the things I can.
Big hugs, it's hard to be living IN the dysfunction and finding new ways to cope so many many kudos to you working your recovery and finding how to continue your growth. It is not always easy .. however sometimes quickly sometimes slowly things DO change.
S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
As Sick as My Family is... I've Always Known that I Love them All, But I Honestly Don't Like Many... and That's Ok...
I Remember When My AFather was alive, and Of His 5 Children I was the ONLY One Still Speaking to Him... However Our Relationship was Like you Mentioned above... leave and cut ties or confront and make war... With Him and I It was always the 2nd One...
For what Ever Reason, that was Our Relationship... He knew that I Loved Him, but he Also Knew that I was in NO Way "Takin his Shit!" and I would call him out on his Disease, Ignorance, and Rudeness... But Once I Brought the war... We would Settle back down and Move on... I Don't advise this type of Relationship as it is VERY Draining...lol
I Still Remember my Sister telling me! "I Don't know Why you Put up with His BS & Lies!" but truth was.. I Didn't! I Think My Dad was So Sick in His Disease, and Everyone Around that did Keep Contact, Always Pitied Him, and Coddled Him, but I was the ONE Person that would Call him Out... And Sadly I think that is Why it Worked for Us, I Was Brutally Honest and Sometimes I Had to Sting Him to Get him to Snap Out of it...
I Can Honestly Say, Sometimes that was Easier, then dealing with those Still Here with me Now... Still in this Disease, and All that Surrounds it.
I Love that My Program tells me I'm Allowed to Say things Like... "Oh, I'm Sorry you Feel that way, Or That is Your Opinion, Or Thanks for your Thoughts! or That just don't Work for me!"
But What I Love most is, When I Feel this Way, I Know that it is Time to Readjust my Focus... If I'm So Wrapped up I their Opinion, their thoughts or Ridicules.. Then at Some point I have Lost the Focus of ME! And when I Feel that way, for me its Best to Step up my Program Skills, Practice Detachment, Go Back to Step1, Look at My Inventory of what Happened, and Work out Why I Got So Invested in something that Isn't mine to Own... I Practice acceptance, and Self Care... I Call my Sponsor and Program Friend and Get another View... OR... I Come here to MIP and Hash it Out...
Don't be To Hard on yourself, This too shall Pass, and when it Does... You will be stronger because of it...
I think I know where your coming from. I suspect being effected by alcoholism leaves us with these go to reactions. It's very black and white and I battle every day with this and probably always will. I get relief when I've went inside and looked at the reasons. For me it's mainly fear. I get scared if being hurt or taken advantage of or getting my pride hurt or being wrong or small. Then I know that this program has given me the gift if responsibility. I'm responsible for taken a hurt. I actually get to chose my response or reaction to other people's behaviour or words. My family is sick and I'm the lucky one in recovery so when words or actions come out that are sick then I can only really forgive in awareness. If I take a hurt or resentment then maybe my dominating shortcoming us running the show. Self pity is a big time one for me. Around my family all I've got for peace if mind is forgiveness understanding and boundaries that protect me from anyone else's consequences and that's it.
Thank you El-cee and Serenity and Jozie for the esh. Yep, I am also a nurse Ratchet rather than a Florence and not having a healthy model of relationships and having to create my own is so very relateable....it has been so much trial and error and without this programme, I would seriously have no clue how to go about it. Jozie, oh boy, that is so familiar....the draining push and pull of these relationships. Love takes many forms and expressions. Elcee I am without any doubt that is the effects of multiple generations of alcoholism that lead to the actions and reactions within this particular dynamic. Without doubt. It is just so inane and tiring and pointless. On the plus side, I am coming to accept that it is not "evil" of me to no longer feel what I used to feel, which in all honesty was based on a delusional sense of need and lack in the first place. The gaslighting is really requiring a lot of deep breaths and serenity prayers. The less I engage, the worse it gets. Hopefully like autistic stims it will extinguish itself as a behaviour if I pay it no emotional reaction. I have little patience for non disabled people acting nuts frankly after having my son. The boy is a blessing in the most unique ways! Thank you all again very much.
