OK...Round 2 David... I hear you. My mantra run toward the roar, doesn't mean others will not be obstacles, a hinderance, or whatever else is going on. If siblings are taking crowbars to your boat...in whatever form and fashion that is going on...what can you do? For you? When surrounded by damaged people -- I look to the basics -- acceptance. OK, got it. Surrender, OK, check. Letting go, got that covered. All of those things, and our program, have to do with me. People don't like looking at themselves, taking ownership, etc. -- and just one of the reasons is because then, they may have to do something. Is there something, or some things, you have to do with these relationships? Re-frame them? Define and manage them in a new or different context? Some people just spew out "boundaries" and think that's the answer. And, most people get it wrong. Boundaries are not the end all cure all to a relationship, dialog, communication, etc. Boundaries are an "advanced" topic so to speak...Oh, I established my boundary, and I enforced it, I honor it...but so and so is still punching me in the face every single day. Great. How's that working for you.

If you are surrounded by damaged people -- what can you do? In my experience, I've learned that rarely is the answer nothing. For me, my sister is a damaged person. My ex as well. My father also. While it's not pure sualanon -- oh yeah, that's right, we are not a conference approved forum, lol, so we are allowed to refer to non-alanon literature, material, etc. -- in my advanced adult work and education, professionally, and more, what I've learned is that one can re-frame a relationship with anyone. Sure, it's different if you live in the same house, but even with parent/child, it is common and can be very healthy and rewarding...when done properly, efficiently, effectively, etc.

While I live alone, I've had to spend time re-framing my relationship with my sister and my father. I've defined them differently, in a way that is healthy for me, and not a threat to my well-being. I've managed them differently, with different content and inside a different context. Sure, sometimes the other person is not happy, but what else is new!!! It is no different than the alcoholic being mad at you for whatever reason!!! People throw around words like re-framing, and defining, but they are far more than words. There is a process to it. No different than alanon and recovery. Re-framing a relationship is not only a process, but it starts with outside the relationship, and acknowledging that the relationship is "broken" and needs "repairing" -- and that acknowledgment is about you and from you. Not the other person. Once one is in a place where taking action is the only choice -- then the process can begin. Re-framing relationships is very powerful, and very empowering. While the mourning and grieving is ongoing, it has finite life. And, you don't have to do it with them.

The funeral is one day, one moment in time. While you were not allowed to get up, speak, etc. -- you can pay your respects your way. In a way that is meaningful and important to you. Forget about them. Remember, you are surrounded by damaged people!!! And you are not one, nor do you want to become one! It's over. Mourn now. Grieve. Pay your respects with honor, dignity, and class. That is who you are!!! And remember, that is who you are being when nobody's looking!!!

Don't let these damaged people sink your boat! LOL. Even if you lean into your program -- acceptance, surrender, letting go, detachment, boundaries, all of that is for YOU. Remember, this is about YOU...and for YOU.

David, I don't know what you are referring to when you say all the time me asking "what goes" around here. Sorry, I don't understand. Nor do I understand your question about "like what are the boundaries?" I apologize that I don't clearly understand what you are trying to say.

I can't speak to what anyone else sees or feels in and about alanon. If you have seen rigidity, restrictions, and the like -- OK. I can't argue about what you see or feel. There's no right or wrong. You see it, you feel it. OK, I got it. Personally, I feel alanon -- as a program and the meetings I attend -- is a warm and welcoming place. But, that's alanon -- conference approved alanon meetings, where they follow the principles of the program. I've come across some people who "run" the meeting and it feels rigid -- but that's the person, not the program. I like that alanon has principles. I like that it has structure. I like that anywhere in the country I go to a meeting, it follows a guideline, a format, etc. Sure, it's different, the content might be different...but the context is the same. That's my feeling. It is a "program" that has universal aspects and elements. I also feel with alanon -- you get out of it what you put into it -- not you get out of it based upon how desperate you are, but what you really put into it. But, we all see and feel differently. There is also take what you like and leave the rest. I don't think anything goes either, although I don't know exactly what you mean on this either.

Personally, I don't' see anything wrong with what you are saying, or how you are saying it; and again I apologize for not clearly understanding your what you are saying. And, on that note, I admire and respect -- and thank you -- for taking my mantra and running with it. I think that's great! Who cares what anyone else thinks, LOL. I liked your portrayal of what run toward the roar means to you. Run toward the roar -- I speak to it often, as it relates to self. Not conflict with another. Self. Fear. Discomfort. All the things I've said before. Thanks again David.

Thanks David. I just can't imagine someone being kicked out of (an alanon?) meeting for mentioning co-dependency. It is common for that to be part of "our" sickness in alanon. Co-dependency is real, and can be decimating. It's a common ingredient in the recipe of sickness, disease, what we have and have to deal with. I've seen people cross-talk in meetings, bring AA into the discussion, other fellowships, etc. -- but no one kicked out for doing that.

Now, I've seen people get kicked out of meetings -- for being belligerent, disruptive, offensive, threatening, etc. That too, was about the person, not the program. I've been going to meetings a long time, so I've seen a lot, LOL. I can't really speak to what happens here -- and after the last discussion about the webmaster, the process for bringing up other issues, etc. -- I have no interest in doing so. Yes, I am sure that no one would get kicked out for mentioning co-dependency, because I've seen it mentioned numerous times, I've mentioned it myself numerous times, and I am unaware of anyone being kicked out, and I didn't get kicked out, LOL. So, I share. I share my experience, strength, and hope.

I am glad you embrace and welcome alanon into and as part of your life. The answers, the solutions, are all there, inside the rooms of alanon.

(((David))) - to your original message, I can feel your pain and I am so sorry that this happened. I am the youngest and the only daughter so I have been the 'baby' always and continue to be so - while I am now in my 50's. I can tell you the perpetual snubbing, belittling and all that comes with being the youngest and only daughter ate my lunch for a long, long, long while.

This probably contributed to my distorted thinking as much as living with the disease. Of course, it's all a part of the disease - my parents both had fathers who were alcoholic and their experiences were vastly different. Yet - I can see the generational patterns of the disease and as Jerry suggests, use the Serenity Prayer and program to focus on what I can change while accepting what I can not.

I recall a moment when many things shifted for me.....the entire family was here at my home for my parents 50th wedding anniversary. That meant my brothers + wives + kids + my own family. I had 17 people here for the better part of the week. I was stressed trying to be the best hostess and considering the disease and dynamics, everything really, really went well.

As kids, we were taught/trained to compete/compare for EVERYTHING. Success was defined by income, job title, bank account, house size, etc. - all superficial, materialistic 'things'. By the grace of God and the gift of recovery, I knew by then success for me had nothing to do with all that - success was unconditional love, unconditional acceptance and consistent kindness to all persons - no matter who they are or where they're from.

My brothers were all 'beating their chests' talking about their jobs, income, importance, etc. and openly shared their salaries, bonuses, etc. I was just cleaning the kitchen with a huge smile and stayed completely silent/detached as I knew in that moment that all the chest-beating in the world showed me that each had pain just like me.  At the time, I was earning more than all of them yet found no need to say so as my motive would have been self-serving.

Each of them privately thanked me for the hospitality, and each suggested they would not have the room to host the whole family. I honestly hadn't even thought about it - where I live, housing is more affordable and we have 3 levels, 5 Bedrooms, 2 family rooms and 4 garages. It's just customary for the area yet it did serve as a great place for the whole famn damily.

I've been set aside for many funerals and weddings over the years. I always just assumed it was due to the birth order and the only gal but who knows. I honestly have earned the black sheep of the family award from my choices while active in alcoholism and for many in my family, I still am.

But recovery has gifted me with believing the only ones I need to truly honor are self and HP. For all others, I no longer give away any power for I am an equal and I go out of my way to avoid crazy/controlling - that's what I consider as running toward the roar and how I used to be.

Again, the middle of the boat is my preferred place. I value you, I loved how you shared about your step-father and I'm grateful you're a part of my journey.

My main meeting here does prefer we stick to Al-Anon literature, topics, etc. ACoA and AA and others are considered outside topics as is religion, politics, therapy, etc. We never boot anyone for anything like that but we will suggest a return to the topic while offering a one-on-one if someone is in crisis. My other meeting locations are more relaxed and one is actually a mixed meeting for members of both AA & Al-Anon.

I do not claim a home group as I love all that I attend equally and provide service as well. Take good care of you - and remember always that who you really are is a product of a creator who knows what he/she is doing!!  Keep doing you - it looks great on you!