Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

RE: MIP General Business Meeting To Consider Admin/Webmaster

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

David its actually fairly simple. Tanin has specified in his first post that part of the duties of the admin are to implement the changes to the board specified by the transition committee. Please don't make me use the quote feature at you lol. It is hardly an earth shattering suggestion to solidify what in practice is already occurring, ie the mods of each respective group representing the group conscience inline with the traditions and principles of the 12 steps. I think it saves a lot of the bickering between personalities.

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

yes Princess K/Mrs Snoopy. That is exactly what I meant. The mods give the ok to the webmaster/admin. For me, as an alanon member, I have total trust for the mods of that group because I have watched them over years place principles over personalities and they all work a solid recovery. So if they are ok with the nominated webmasters and it is clear that their roles are to continue on moderating and advising the new admin/webmaster of any changes or other issues arising on the board, they have my full support. The webmaster/admin executes the authority of the mods who represent the boards and their members. That is my understanding.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

As a moderator of the Al-Anon board, I do read/review every post from every poster. Of course, if I am going to be away, I notify the other moderators as they do when they will be away. We do have the largest traffic and many posts yet we have had minimal issues since I've been around.

I did reach out directly to John a couple of times, simply because there was an issue we could not address (moderators don't have full reign on the boards). If he disagreed with me, he ruled because it was his site. I did not take it personally as I felt I did my service by raising the issue/concern. The outcome is beyond my control.

It is a bit different now simply because John's not here. I do believe we all want to maintain and even grow what he built for all of us. I would suggest that we keep things as simple as possible. I can see that the webmaster/admin person(s) might have questions or need clarification as they begin to look at the site and the broken links, etc. I am confident that we can find a simple way to share information and gain consensus as we move forward. We (all members) were able to carry on after John passed, the site survived, we got the bills paid and the lights are still on.

If we can get the new webmaster/admins. in place and Tanin can transition, we can then determine what they need from us and vice versa. I guess I am saying I don't see much need for other changes at this time, beyond getting the transition complete. Am I missing something? I readily admit I've not attended the meetings as I knew Betty was repping 'us'...

Thanks to all for the discussion and updates as well as your service. MIP has been a huge part of my journey and my hope is it stays that way for a long, long while!

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi y'all,

my journey into this forum began 12 or 18 months ago. [Sometimes i wished that my family was like "The Waltons". And that Alanon was too.] I asked if John's name could be removed from our ACA Message Board.

I had met John personally and had the deepest respect for him. But I did not want a member appealing to him- when he was not available. I was told the decision to keep Johns name was made by a committee. The committee was in the Alanon chat room. Most overseas members could not attend, because of the time zones.

We all make Trad 7 offerings- and I believed that there should be no taxation without representation. And that all members of all MIP boards should have the chance to participate. One view is that it should be the role of the moderators. And I believe that this point should be discussed.

I have been happy with progress over the last 18 months. Everyone has supported Tanan in building a good base.

I was impressed that the Alanon chat meetings had a makeover recently.

In that light I believe that we are on the right track... smile

Tanin · Veteran Member

It was intended that this thread would be an effective way to hold a MIP general business meeting, which would allow everyone, regardless of subgroup or time zone to participate in an imortant discussion about managing the MIP site.

Questions, analysis, problems, statements of preference, qnd opinions are expected. And, I would say, necessary.

Tanin

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you for clarifying the threads intention Tanin. My opinion and analysis is, none of us come here well. We have board moderators who are in the al-anon group at least, performing their roles with a solid demonstrated recovery. This is not a necessary prerequisite for an admin/webmaster. It is established that there are only few members with the requisite web skills to perform the role; the role of that individuals recovery is not mentioned in the performance of the admin/webmaster role. This is a recovery board. Decisions relating to the exercise of a recovery board membership in the interests of the entire community logically ought not rest with someone who has been elected primarily on the strength of their technical skills. This is why I am in support of the mods of each board holding representation for that board and having the final say on what directions are given to the webmaster/admin. The new admin is not going to be a new John. John is gone. The ownership is now collective. Collectives need representatives. The mods are already there. I can not speak for any other board than the alanon one of which I am solely a member.

Tanin · Veteran Member

Thanks for some thoughtful comments, a41. Especially about the changeover from a unilateral founder-run context to a self-governing one. That changeover is continuing and, I think, will require further discussion beyond the main purpose of this meeting thread. One thing that i worry about is who does own the MIP site. Certainly, John did. But now?

Ownership is a hairy and very complicated force in our management of the site. Personally, i am very wary of ownership. And authority. Same thing, really.

Tanin

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

So, it sounds like the "admin" aspect of this is resolved, or at least will be. A motion was made, seconded, people are voting.

That said, is this going to be the forum to discuss the "other" issues, questions, suggestions, comments, etc.?

If this is not the forum, where and when will it be? If this is the forum, then it should be clearly stated so.

Or, if those "other" items are not to be discussed at all -- I have a simple question -- why not? Because one person decided? Two? Several? I think everyone has the right to know that either a person, or a select few people decided that "nothing else needs to be discussed" or whatever the case might be.

If one person wants to discuss suggestion/issue "A" and another person doesn't have an opinion on that, then the other person can remain silent. However, I think it is reflective of something if that other person is against even discussing that at all. Especially if there will be more than one person who wants to discuss it.

Thank you.

Mrs_Snoopy · Veteran Member

Bo, there is an Al-Anon Business Forum above this one; perhaps that would be the proper place to bring up other Al-Anon issues.

In Recovery,

Princess K.

ACA member

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm reading all this and I think the mods of the respective boards should sorta be the "go to" people re: ratification of something that impacts the whole MIP community...that said....the group consciences should be held within each individual board, issues that come up and the MODS take it from there....like the quote feature being used....who voted "no" on using quotes??? did mods hold a group conscience??? I wasn't asked to vote...I was just "told" not to do it anymore by a very respected mod and I complied because of my profound respect for this mod...but again, I see where Bo and David are coming from....EVERYONE should have a voice...and it should be taken into account with all the OTHER voices...mods are but trusted servants to their respected boards....the trads 1, 2 come into play here.....the common welfare of the group and there is but only ONE loving Higher power....my HP is the program and its traditions, principles, precepts, steps, et al.....I am for voting...each "page" should be run within that respective page...mods are like the reps who go "outside" when necessary to vote on MIP issues that THEIR members had voted on....again...mods are servants, not authority figures and dictators...mods should show NO prejudices against members they "don't like" as that is against the "one authority" concept....but I do believe that EVERY member, no matter where, which board the belong to should have a VOICE...and because we are from all over the world, a thread should be opened so while some are sleeping, the others can get on a cast their ESH/Vote....I think the differing groups should run themselves and WHEN it involves the whole of the MIP, then mods post a group conscience request on issue, and mods take it up with the web masters, et al...I'm learning this phase as well... I think Mrs Snoopy is right...Each respective board should take care of its own business...the only exception to that would be if it impacts the whole MIP., then mods, after receiving member votes, be the reps to the web masters...I hope this post made sense....

the "quoting" people's posts kinda got shut down...where should it be addressed if not on this page then where??? or is it a "non topic"?? ...what do the other members of Alanon think??? maybe a consensus should be taken by members of Alanon on THEIR site?????? let everyone on Alanon say "yay or nay" to the using of this feature???? Then respond according to majority rules......I'm just voicing some concerns here...All my life I got told "this is how it is" and I had no voice....no choice...no say...my life was a complete autocracy....there was no "voting, group conscience" in my family of origin...one or two people set down the rules and subject was closed..not open for discussion or ESH from other family members, like we didn't exist...

OK..I've said what I feel...

I agree with Mrs S that "Each board has a moderator, who could be the representative for web change requests." I agree 10000% with this...on issues that effect only the particular group??? then post a request for group conscience and majority rules...that way every member feels and SEES that they have a voice...

Over and out

-- Edited by mamalioness on Monday 27th of August 2018 08:57:15 AM

Mrs_Snoopy · Veteran Member

Well said, mama!

In Recovery,

Princess K.

Mrs_Snoopy · Veteran Member

Each group has a Business Forum; Tanin set these up. This is so that administrative issues don't have to intermingle with Program topics.

In Recovery,

Princess K.

Mrs_Snoopy · Veteran Member

Hidden, you are correct that there is no overall MIP business board. david suggested a MIP Clubhouse where we could discuss all-group issues.

Last year I kept the minutes from the Transition Committee and posted them on each group's Business Forum. Al-Anon is the largest group, and ACA is second. I'm not sure how active AA, NA, and CoDa are.

The two web hosts, Sparklit and GoDaddy, are paid annually (June) for all MIP services. Donations are solicited for any member who is willing.

Thanks for your willingness to serve!

In Recovery,

Princess K.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi y'all...

as we are discovering, we all have slightly different cultures in anour Alanon groups, and all our other 12 step groups.

Stateside I realise I have actually attended a meeting, of some sort, in South Dakota, New York, Florida and Ca. I just "bowled up" as we say in NZ.

I went to a f2f meeting locally last night- largely to give my laptop a break! smile

Its just after 7 am Tuesday here in NZ.

In my walk we would select a new chair every week- so everyone got a turn! This is a brand now ball game- for all of us.

To give structure to a business meeting i suggested that we follow "standard meeting procedure".

Some people understand this... I scale it down a lot for smaller groups... just to get things done and get things covered.

Progress not perfection.

There was discussion as to whether or not we discuss anything! A valid point.

The issues arising; 'matters arising' from this meeting we can take forward. I believe that fun and friendship should be our ultimate goal.

Newcomers too...

I proposed to close the meeting at 5pm EST, which is about 2 hours.

the outcome of 'the election' was a foregone conclusion. Coming from the ACA group we had to trust the process and to trust Freetime and Hidden. This has been easy to do- but we still had to go there... removing barriers- and creating healthy boundaries... biggrin ...

so any tidying up. comments etc- the floor is still open for about 2 hours. smile ...

thank y'all smile ...

David G

ACA Mod

Alanon member.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Secretary? We have a complete transcript of the meeting here! biggrin ...

But maybe we do need a summer-upper...

I was always good at that- always the bridesmaid, me. -terrible sitting in the chair...

but nah... always a time for change... biggrin ...

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

David, I mean no offense, and no disrespect, however, I find it very perplexing, and very disconcerting that a simple, pointed question cannot be simply and clearly answered. I also don't understand why this keeps getting more complicated. It could be very simple if someone would answer a simple pointed question, with a simple, clear and concise answer.

Here is my simple, pointed question...other than this issue, the election as you referred to it...which has already been voted on...will the other issues raised here in this thread be discussed by the group as a whole? YES or NO?

Thank you.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Short answer Bo- YES.

We have messaged... before. aww In Alanon I am a mere member.

...When I was young there were committees here, there, and everywhere. Some people made a hobby of attending them.

It is well known secret that there is a momma bear and maybe a poppa bear in our MIP Alanon and many people defer to them.

In this meeting I was expecting a growling from one! But I sensed that us "younger" members are expected to fledge sometime.

And any time is as good as any.

There is not a darkened space in this building- no doors or windows...

I am a gender equality buff... I expect women to lead... and we can lean into this and learn... and also take our turn... sometimes...

[often, for me, it is about impulse control- and nothing to do that that!]

often I am one who will chatter at meetings- which is a big no-no for some... biggrin ...

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you David.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

I second what David suggests - we set a time, and close this discussion/vote. I don't know if 2 hours is adequate, simply because not all members visit every day, but would support closure for the intended purpose - replacement of admin. for Tanin.

As far as the other points/issues/questions/concerns, I am in support of any member at any time posting any group conscious discussion points (for the Al-Anon discussion group) in this area, Forum Business, Reports, Changes, Announcements. Registered members of the board will be able to see, comment, discuss, etc. Based on how well I know the others who serve by moderating, they would support this too.

I do think it's helpful to share a redirect in the 'other area' as Betty did for this so folks can know there is discussions about our board going on. As stated above, Tanin set up separate areas for all the boards and I can only voice my thoughts on the one I frequent.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

smile Iam...

one of the troubles here- on an online meeting- it is impossible to differentiate greeting time, sharing time and coffee time.

They all get rolled into one- sometimes. At 9 am Tuesday, my time, I shall declare the winners.

There have been some useful conversations here... tidying up loose ends etc...

so if we move into ~coffee time~ we can slap each other on the back- proverbially... and cover any ground we have missed. aww ...

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

smile ...

Thanks for your attendance... aww ...

after due consideration I would like to declare that Freetime, and Hidden have been duly elected as Administrators and Webmasters for the Miracles in Progress

Recovery Groups.

They were elected unopposed.

Thanks for your time...

...here ends the formal part of the meeting.

Tanin · Veteran Member

Thanks go to Hidden and Freetime for their service commitment. I am tied up all day Tuesday and would like to complete the transfer of control beginning Monday morning. There are some details they need to know that could better be transmitted by email. Could Hidden and Free time please send me their email address via P.M.

I suggest we keep this thread open for comment for 24 hours to allow everyone a comment. I'll close the thread this time tomorrow night.

Thanks to all who participated.

Tanin

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

smile Thanks Tanin...

do you plan to stick with the AA group here going forward... ?

Freetime · ~*Service Worker*~

Tanin, I have sent my email address via P.M.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Tanin - thank you for your service to MIP! I second the 24 hour closure of the thread/discussion. I have no doubt the transition will go well - please shout if there is any assistance needed.

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Tanin: Thank you for your service to this MIP community..When John passed, you stepped up and kept everything going. I hope you have some fun things planned after you've stepped down..I agree that this thread should be closed in the time mentioned......Take care!!!

OH!!! And congratulations to Freetime and Hidden for their commitment to this community. I have all the faith in them!!!!

-- Edited by mamalioness on Monday 27th of August 2018 10:22:41 PM

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

aye- to close the thread... thanks M8...!

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

My own feeling is hidden and free time would make excellent webmasters and thank you so much for stepping up. I would be happy with changes to the forum in terms of how it works or not. I'm ok with the clunky way it is too. I don't like the quote function as I find it boring and sometimes ridiculous to scroll down to find the new comment. Just my view. I don't think we need anymore direction instructions guidelines or stickys. In my opinion it's all ticking along nicely. Thanks for listening.

Mrs_Snoopy · Veteran Member

Thanks for all of your service Tanin, and thanks for stepping up Hidden and Freetime!

In Recovery,

Princess K.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Rest in Peace John... the miracle in Miracles in Progress came about under a bridge in Dallas Texas. Part of John's vision. His own way of reaching out- and making the world a better place. Every time I see someone coming in to carry on and fulfill the vision I have a sense of pride. So proud to join you, myself. smile ...

Tanin · Veteran Member

DavidG wrote:

do you plan to stick with the AA group here going forward... ?

Yes, indeed, I will stay active on the AA forum.

Tanin

Tanin · Veteran Member

Thread closed.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene