Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

RE: MIP General Business Meeting To Consider Admin/Webmaster

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

Bo wrote:
DavidG wrote:

Hi y'all,
some of us are being pulled up- for quoting another person's post.
This is a business meeting, not a sharing meeting. I do it here- and do not regard it as cross-talk.
I do it to address the issue of the moment and to prevent confusion.
it seems to me that so far, this is working well... ...
I think this way of having a meeting is a new ball game for all of us. If this issue is likely to create friction, then maybe we should discuss it?
DavidG.

I agree David, however, I feel it should be done via a group conscience.

well, David and Bo, I agree with you guys...I don't see it as any violation or crosstalk.....I also agree that EVERYONE should be able to participate in a group conscience...Let the majority be the deciding factor....I do NOT EVER want to cause discord and friction, but I think this is a group conscience topic....and this is the only arena that I am addressing it as well.....

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

David and Bo I am confused about why this issue continues to be addressed. I pointed out the concerns of the members and cannot understand why we cannot simply respect these concerns, rather than argue about our rights .

Only a few members use this quote option and I can easily see how a response can be formulated without the quote .

Bo, We have not found it necessary to have posting guidelines in the past so that maybe Tanin can establish a group to develop definitions that can be posted as a "Sticky" . This would avoid this type of misunderstanding going forward.

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

DavidG wrote:

Ahem...
I would like to nominate Mrs Snoopy, and the 3rd Administrator.
It would be up to Hidden, Freetime and Mrs Snoopy as to how this works...
but it would be envisioned that Mrs Snoopy would take primary responsibility for the MIP ACA board.

Mrs Snoopy as got good administrative and IT skills... she is a loved and trusted member of the ACA group- and has got good serenity.
Thanks Y'all... ...
DavidG.
ACA Mod.

David, I second your motion for Karen as third admin..She has the time and the training to do this and do it well..I think Karen will do a great job as you said..Thank you for letting me share....

RosieJ

ACA member (long term)

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

I support the nominations raised! As far as the 'site' as a whole, the front page (main MIP page) is in dire need of clean up if that's what has been mentioned about broken links and more. I see shirts for sale, cups for sale, mention of sober living homes that have been closed for years and years, etc. John had many grand plans and as best I know, with his passing, all that remains is the MIP website. Just a point for discussion.

As far as private/public forum areas, I have no strong opinion either way. I've seen forums with both and it's worked well.

As far as moderation of posts/sub-forums, moderators are trusted servants. We do our best to remove spam posts and obvious trouble posts. Beyond that, and those mentioned above - courtesy, respect, limit cross-talk, etc. - we've not had any real issues. My personal perspective is that we should limit our shares to our own ESH and certainly not give advice, etc. It goes without saying that we should be gentle as many are having their first encounter with others who have similar/same life experiences. All members have the right to skip posts that don't speak to them and/or to avoid discussions that they are not comfortable with.

I can honestly say I only edit/remove/lock posts (that aren't spam or trouble) when the original poster (OP) asks. I have been contacted by members who feel other members posts are full of advice or inappropriate, and don't take action unless the other moderators of the sub-forum agree we should.

I do not support creating excessive rules and guidelines for members, posts, etc. This will make the role of moderating much more time-consuming and feels like an effort to control, which I've spent a life-time trying to grow apart from. I have no concerns if the site has a simple objective statement and/or if each sub-forum decides to do something in kind; I'm all about 'keeping it simple'.

I've had the pleasure of participating in the Al-Anon discussion area as well as the online meetings! Both have been great tools for my own recovery. I really don't see much reason to change things - the exception would just be the MIP landing page. I've also been around other online recovery forums, and those with the most active participation opt to not become Al-Anon certified (or whatever term is proper) simply because they don't want to be limited to CAL...we do allow discussion of other materials and I like that as I do use other materials in my own recovery.

I appreciate your service Tanin, Betty, Edna and Courage as well as the service of all who moderate and make MIP a special place for sharing recovery. I am very grateful to John, and glad that he built MIP as it is and that we all cared enough when he passed to keep the 'lights on'. I personally operate under the premise, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Why this issue continues to be addressed? I was told this thread -- was a discussion -- to address concerns, questions, issues, etc. I didn't bring up the issue at all in any of my posts. It came up -- but not because of me. Simply put, I saw the topic brought up and referenced, and I commented on it. I only saw one post which had a problem with this -- and that was yours. I am confused -- because I am absent of all facts as to how this works. You are a moderator, but not in a position of authority as it relates to this discussion (which is I think what David was saying), yet here in this discussion, you can deliver the message that you "pointed out the concerns of members" -- and that's it? No more discussion? If that's the case, then on this issue, I am done. I don't think it's fair, but I will agree to drop it.

As far as the posting guidelines -- if you are saying my suggestions, questions, comments and concerns "don't need to be addressed" -- then so be it. I find this very ironic, and I think you understand why. I guess we will see what comes from this "discussion" -- although it no longer seems like a discussion to me.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Bo... good points... this is a unique situation... Alanon is by far the most vigorous group in all of the MIP family. ACA is second with about 10% the daily visits that Alanon has.

If members of this caucus/ committee do not want to have their posts quoted I will do my darnedest to avoid it.

I have avoided quoting yours- since is appears right above this one... and because I did not want to cause further offense.

Whatever XA we belong to we deal with people in dire and resperate circumstances... we do very well at this. Sometimes one of our groups will make all of the difference. We are a tremendous example of how different groups can work together.

I was taught early on [in Alanon] to look at the similarities and not the differences...

our group culture are a little different sometimes- but this is a strength.

-D.

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you David...and, LOL, feel free to quote me as I thought it was "permitted" on this thread. If it is not -- I apologize as I meant nor intended any offense.

Thank you again David.

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

yea, I go with David....if members are not comfortable with MY quoting them, then I'll do my best to not offend..."next door" we do it all the time w/no offenses at all..For some reason Alanon folks are more "sensitive" to this practice??? whatever, when I am in Alanon, I will be mindful...as for me??? I don't mind at all being quoted...it shows they cared enough to be moved by what I said..Its like "WOW" they cared that much....but I guess I am the odd one here....I take it as their really being interested in me as a HUMAN BEING, not just a cyber post...but anyway...it is what it is and I am "over and out" re: this conversation about quoting others posts....

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

Isn't this thread to determine the new webmaster? The role and duties of the webmaster have been laid out. I am guessing there are existing subcommittees representing the various 12 step groups who congregate here, of which there is al-anon and acoa, and AA though no reps (?) from that faction. So far, an alanon member has raised the matter of posts being searchable on the web. An aca member has shared that their forum is lockable to members only which addresses the searchable post concern. A webmaster nominee has shared the view that the site could do with a makeover. Other members have shared that the functionality of the site is acceptable as is, although there is a general consensus that the broken links and other material need removing/cleaning up. Three others are arguing over the use of a quote feature and giving everyone repeated examples of how the feature works. Can we move along now family?

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

smile ...

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Teething troubles- in my view...

Upon selection of the Webmaster[s]/ admin[s] I think the next steps is to set up a forum where the combined MIP can deal with their primary issues. Over the last 18 months the funding of the groups has been set up... and secured. We have had the services of Tanin who has guided us through the process.

One thing we should have to consider is a name for the new combined forum.

I believe that as many people as possible should be involved. These are ideas that I have had.

MIP Clubhouse

MIP Family

THanks,

DavidG.

Mod for ACA

member of MIP Alanon.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Kia ora tatou... greetings y'all...

ACA TRADITION 4

...sometimes distance is an advantage here. Where I live is 18 hours ahead of EST summer, and 16 hours over winter. So while y'all are fast asleep ah kin sneak in here and have a quiet post.

In our ACA group we have members from USA Canada, France, Denmark and Russia, Australia and New Zealand. In the time I have been there, 6 years, we had had members and enquiries from a host of other countries.

So what had this do do with the topic.? it is about group autonomy- and How I believe it works.

And how we, the ACA members, can work with the other groups here.

ACA Tradition 4. Each group is autonomous, except in matters affecting other groups, or ACA as a whole. We cooperate with all other 12 Step programs.

In my journey I did my steps in open sharing meeting with AA. We had our two 12x12 books and worked through them together. So early on I had this experience of working together.

When I first came here i was in the MIP steps group and went through both the steps and traditions with both groups- Alanon and ACA.

My high point was looking at Tradition 7.

At first glance this is all about 'pass the basket' giving.

But actually it does apply to all contributions- time, involvement, provisioning- the lot.

Therefore we really do need one of our own members sharing the admin role. smile ...

As I found in my recovery there is still a lot of sharing and swapping with other groups going on... there is no brick wall.

Coming back to Tradition 4... our ACA group here is affiliated to our GSO and listed with it.

We have to ensure we adhere to our policies and guidelines.

So we don't raise issues here to be difficult... it is about creating both our boundaries and our links. smile ...

Thanks.

aww ...

-- Edited by DavidG on Friday 24th of August 2018 03:21:35 AM

Mrs_Snoopy · Veteran Member

Wow, this thread is getting off topic! Could we please keep it to the Webmaster issue?

I think it would be good to have two Webmasters; then there would always be a back-up. They could agree on banning a person. To have a group vote someone off the board would be very divisive and untimely.

Just my ,

Princess K.

ACA member

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Sadly... ACA celebrated its 40th anniversary this year. One of our members was a founding member. With the best of intentions Tanin banned him.

Not the role of an AA member. smile ...

I do not think it is the role of the admins to police the groups. It is the role of the members working with the moderators.

Our group is smaller and we really do work, or try to work like a healthy family.

We enjoy a good relationship with Tanin... progress- not perfection. smile ...

Mrs_Snoopy · Veteran Member

Thanks david and mama, but I respectfully decline the nomination.

Tanin was acting as MIP Webmaster when he banned that disruptive person. Since we have no central authority here, it is difficult to have checks and balances. I think having two Webmasters would provide some division of authority.

In Recovery,

Princess K.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Hmmm... our oldtimer was not the disruptive person...

he reacted badly to the disruptive person- it was very unsettling all round...

today someone or other tried to force the ACA members to observe the Alanon cross talk guidelines... just a glitch...

we can work together- but there must be respect of the different 12 step cultures...

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

David, if a member is posting to the alanon board I would encourage him to respect the meeting guidelines and not say, But I am an ACA member and those guidelines do not apply to me.---. I am FREE TO BE ME

This issue has become a waste of my time and energy I leave the resolution to Tanin and the membership

Mrs_Snoopy · Veteran Member

This is why a MIP Clubhouse would be good where we can address all-Program issues. We are meeting in the Al-Anon board because there is nowhere else on this site.

In Recovery,

Princess K.

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Interesting -- first, I was told this thread was a general discussion for ideas, concerns, suggestions, questions, and the like. That was the only reason I posted what I posted.

Then, various members expressed that this thread was only to discuss the webmaster/succession plan issue.

If it's the former, someone should figure out the structure and format as to how the "meeting" or "discussion" will take place...or else it will be a waste of time and go nowhere. JMO. If the latter, then say so and make it clear and limit the discussion to the one topic and one topic only.

However, in my opinion, what it shouldn't be -- is to have "some members" saying it's the latter, but also about a few other topics that those "some members" say are important; but not about other topics, simply because those "some members" say the other topics are not important.

That is not only unfair, but exactly opposite of what alanon is all about.

Thank you.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

smile Betty... this is not an Alanon meeting. It is a combined AA, Alanon, ACA, NA, Coda Meeting.

As you know I do not bring outside issues like ACA into the regular Alanon meeting. aww ...

As Bo says- we should try and stick to the agenda. Please...

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

. I agree it is important to stay on topic David You were the one who brought the "quote issue " to tho this board and I responded

-- E

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

smile This consultation process has been robust- as it should be. In my view our groups deal with serious and sometimes desperate circumstances.

At the same time I believe our members should act good good grace, and even humour, sometimes. For me the second past of Tradition 12 says it all-

"...ever reminding us to put principles above principalities".

In recent times the Alanon chatrooms have been upgraded with new ops. A great move. smile ...

I second your motion, Betty to put the matter in hand to the vote.

Mrs Snoopy has declined her nomination.

Therefore I move that Hidden and Freetime take on the role of Admin and Webmaster.

[ ...waiting for a seconder here... biggrin ...] ...

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Second.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Hey, thanks Bo...

This is a brand new ball game here- running our affairs like this...

we will all make mistakes along the way... but in the end we are MIP Family... we have all spent a lot of quality time with each other. wink

Say let's vote- over about 3 days. Close at 5pm Monday EST.

My vote is yes.

Mrs_Snoopy · Veteran Member

Can we make them both Webmasters?

P.K.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Yes, PK... that is the motion... aww ...

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

All in favor vote

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Yes.....is my vote.

My sincere apologies for my post which was off-topic. I read from start to finish and ASSumed the topic/intent had grown. Carry on all - and again, my apologies!

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

We had a good discussion here... smile ...

it is important that the support any new admins- the same way we supported Tanin...

Important for anyone who so wishes- to record a No vote- to do so. aww ...

And then we will have an answer Monday 5 pm.

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

DavidG wrote:

Mrs Snoopy has declined her nomination.
Therefore I move that Hidden and Freetime take on the role of Admin and Webmaster.
[ ...waiting for a seconder here... ...] ...

I respect Mrs. S declining and I see her points....I second the nomination of Hidden and Freetime as Admin and Webmaster...From what I have observed, I think they are great choices.....so I, mamalionness, second the motion to elect Hidden and Freetime in their respective roles...Good choice!!!!! smile smile

I see Bo beat me to it, so I "third" the motion biggrin biggrin

-- Edited by mamalioness on Friday 24th of August 2018 08:34:07 PM

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

From the first post Tanin made, it is clear that the roles of the admin webmaster are to administrate. The transition committee are to decide changes to be made to MIP pages, and forum moderation undertaken by the admin/s is layed out under forum guidelines. I have no idea who the transition committee are but am assuming it is the combined moderators of the respective family groups. If that is so, then accordingly and respectfully that is their vote to make. I will follow the majority decision of the al-anon family moderators. Thank you Tanin again for your service, sincerely, and to all the mods of the al-anon page. Should their be further discussions around the group conscience, I will share my views as I have done here.
Peace all

Mrs_Snoopy · Veteran Member

I second Hidden and Freetime as Co-Webmasters.

a4l, the Transition Committee only met when John passed away to turn over this site administration to other trusted servants. They do not meet on a regular basis. I think each group should control what goes on their site, with the Webmasters making changes as needed.

The Transition Committee was made up of whoever attended the meetings from MIP groups. Tanin, Treasurer Kennyfenderjazz, and Hotrod made sure the annual web hosting bills were paid.

Hope this clarifies things....

In Recovery,

Princess K.

Tanin · Veteran Member

Free time, my rough estimate of time spent monthly is a few hours. That's without doing a major cleanup of the site, which it probably needs.

Thanks for your interest, Free time.

TANIN

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks Princess K. And thanks too, to all who have served on the transition committee as well to keep MIP afloat in the transition time. I note this from Tanins first post under duties of webmaster/admin:
Make changes to MIP pages as decided by transition committee.

So I move that the transition committee be hereinafter constituted as the moderators of the respective MIP family groups.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Hmmm... I think we are feeling our way here a41.

Firstly the topic is a General Business meeting to consider Admin/Webmaster.

Other stuff came up that some thought was relevant, and others did not. I think this was dealt with appropriately.

Once the Webmasters are elected and appointed the transition committee will cease to exist.

As i saw it all members of all groups were invited to attend.

As I see it a permanent combined group will be setup by the local appointees.

I would expect any member of any group could come along and participate.

Just as you have- with ideas and suggestions... aww ...

[just my two cents worth]...

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Hmmm good topic A41. John F. was the 'go to' person over all the MIP groups.

As the mod of the ACA group I engage actively with other group members- all the time- so that i do not get isolated from the group- and so that we all expresss the group conscience- as seen in tradition 2.

I would expect this to be the case in the combined committee. Things had worked well here with Tanin- and I would expect this to continue. aww ...

Mrs_Snoopy · Veteran Member

As I said before, the transition committee does not meet regularly. I don't think they have met since last year after the bills were paid. So this is not a good oversight body.

IMHO, each group should have control of their own pages. I don't think we need a central authority for that.

Just my ,

Princess K.

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

OK. So, how do you envision the webmaster will take their instructions if there actually are no specified representatives of each board?

Mrs_Snoopy · Veteran Member

Each board has a moderator, who could be the representative for web change requests.

P.K.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene