Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

jamom · Newbie

new here

Skorpi · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome jamom!

I'm glad you found your way to MIP.

Alcoholism is a progressive and deadly disease that can be arrested, but not cured.

Many of us have found that it is possible to live happy and content lives, whether the alcoholic is drinking or not. I have found here with MIP and in face-to-face Al-Anon meetings the support I need. I hope that you will try some local face-to-face meetings as well.

When my wife was newly sober, she had to make her recovery her primary focus. I learned in Al-Anon to focus on myself and what I was doing, and to let her focus on herself and what she was doing. With time, I learned to let go of my resentments. What really helped me was thinking of things like this: "If she wasn't here, what would I do?" And then I would do what I would do if she was not there. (laundry, cleaning, yard word, walking dogs, etc.)

This is just my approach to dealing with a newly sober partner - there are many others. There is no general right or wrong - there is only "right for me" and "wrong for me". I encourage you to come back, try the Al-Anon program, try some face-to-face meetings. I found the Al-Anon program very useful in determining what right and wrong looked like for me, and for helping me to keep my focus on myself and what I was doing.

(((hugs)))

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello Jessica Welcome as Skorpi has so impressively detailed, you are dealing with a dreadful disease over which we powerless. I can readily identify with many of the neglects that you are experienccing and found that attending alanon face to face meeting helped greatly I developed new tools to live by and it helped . Please do keep coming back

PosiesandPuppies · ~*Service Worker*~

Just wanted to welcome you. I am sorry the disease has brought you here, but it is a great support system. I found in my marriage, detachment and having zero expectations worked for me (on the short term).

Hope you and your family find peace today.

jamom · Newbie

Thank you both so much for your responses. There is such power in sharing.
Your comments really help keep things in perspective.
Thank you.

PosiesandPuppies · ~*Service Worker*~

((((((jamom))))

You ARE so right! There IS power in sharing our ESH (Experience, Strength, and Hope)!

I am not sure from where you hail, but here in the US, tomorrow is a big holiday... I had always had a love/hate relationship with holidays. I love them, b/c they used to mean fun get-togethers with family and friends. The past few years it just means husband could ramp up his drinking while I went someplace all by myself (b/c I refused to be secluded by his drinking/issues). Last year at this time, I was still with my husband. He got black-out drunk on vodka, while I went to a firework show all by myself. My son was doing whatever he could to leave the house and not hang around.

This year I am having a BBQ with my Mom & Dad & Son and then I will go see the firework show... still alone (b/c son has plans with friends), but oh, so so happy! Last year I sat and cried through almost all of the show b/c I was so sad, lost, lonely and without hope. I have made such great strides b/c of my commitment to Al-Anon! There will be NO crying this year!

My point being, hope and healing CAN happen... for YOU (and your two kids)! Keep coming back!

Peace!

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

jamom wrote:
hi everyone,
i'm new here but have been dealing with an AH for years now. We have 2 young kids who are in therapy and AH has just returned from his second treatment centre. we've been to 3 marriage counselors and he maintains that he owes me nothing in terms of building trust back or treating me with respect. this feels silly to write because on paper it seems so simple. he has not been present really with our lives (somewhat physically but not emotionally) for at least 2 years. he has just returned from a treatment centre and now comes and goes as he pleases without telling me where he is going, spends all our money and expects me to do everything for the house, kids etc... i want to be sensitive to his recovery but the cost to our family is so huge. what if any expectations should i have for him and his contributions?
Thanks for hearing me out.

Welcome...while I am sorry to hear of your struggles, one assurance I can offer is that if you end up in the rooms of (face to face) alanon meetings, then you will have ended up in the right place. So, go online, find your local meetings, and start going to them. What you are facing, feeling, and having to deal with, is very common. Many of us, and many of the people you will meet at your local meetings, will have gone through the very same things. They felt the same feelings that you are feeling right now. They dealt with the same things you are dealing with right now. While that doesn't "solve" your problem -- it should offer you some comfort and solace, knowing that you are not alone, and that others faced the same things...and they got through it! And, so can you!

That said, if you go to face to face meetings, you will learn a great deal -- about tools and resources that are available to you, new ways of thinking, and behaving, new ways of acting and reacting, and ultimately, you will learn that you can find contentment, peace, serenity, even happiness -- whether the alcoholic is drinking or not. Now, that doesn't speak to whether or not you will be married, divorced, separated, or whatever. It only speaks to YOU and your well-being.

One of the very important things we learn in alanon, and something we keep practicing and keep in mind every single day, and it is one of the core, foundations of alanon...is acceptance. Our first step, and much of our initial learning about our recovery -- not the alcoholic's recovery, but ours -- has to do with acceptance. Now, I want to be clear...acceptance doesn't mean you have to tolerate the intolerable. Acceptance doesn't mean you have to bear the unbearable. Acceptance doesn't mean you have to resign yourself to unhappiness. Alanon doesn't teach us any of those things. While we learn about and focus on acceptance...we also learn we do not have to accept unacceptable behavior. Alanon does NOT teach us how to accept unacceptable behavior.

So, you are faced with an alcoholic who "maintains that he owes me nothing in terms of building trust back or treating me with respect." Got it. Well, that's just for today. He is still in his early recovery. He is still fragile and newly sober. He is probably struggling with staying sober. So, just for today, that's the way he feels. I am sure the counsellors -- if they are quality professionals -- will address this at some point. Regardless, moving forward, at some point -- if this is not acceptable to you, and I can certainly see how it wouldn't be, by that time, you will have some experience and time in the alanon program and you will be able to think things through more clearly. You will be able to make decisions from a place of intellect, strength, well-being, calmness, etc. -- and not from a place of duress, fear, anger, emotions, etc. That's another thing alanon does for us. We get better, we get healthy...and we can make better decisions. While your husband is newly sober...so are you. You are newly coming out of a place where this disease has had a major impact on YOU. Now you need to focus on YOU and what you need to do for YOU to get better. You are still very new, very raw, and learning what you can learn in alanon will help you be in a better, healthier, and more secure head-space, if and when you have to make decisions.

He hasn't been present in your lives...because he is an alcoholic. Some alcoholics are simply and exclusively focused on drinking, focused on themselves, etc. Some aren't. But the alcoholic not being present is very common. It's part of the disease. As far as him coming and going as he pleases, not telling you where he is going, spending all of your money, and expecting you to do everything for the house, kids, etc. -- well, that may be just for today, or it may be for a while, or it may be forever. No one knows. Speak with the counsellors about this. Find a sponsor in your meetings, and talk to him/her about this. Right now, just for today, it is what it is. All of those things he is doing is not part of his recovery. I don't know what it is, and neither does anyone else. All of this may be the byproduct of his disease, of him getting and struggling to be sober, and a host of other things. However, long-term, you have to decide whether or not all of that is acceptable to you or not.

In alanon, we learn that expectations can potentially be very dangerous things. One saying is -- an expectation is a premeditated resentment. LOL. Does expectations set us up for disappointment? They can. We learn in alanon to -- have high hopes but low expectations! That has served me well...because every single time I hoped and expected my wife to get better, to get clean and sober, to find recovery...when she didn't...I was devastated. Until, I got better. Until I myself found my recovery and I got better and I got healthy. Be patient.

He is just out of rehab -- is he going to meetings? Is he meeting and working with a sponsor? Is he working his (AA) program? Living a life of recovery? Or is he simply now home and not drinking? While it's not your job to police him or control him...observing "who he is being" and how he is living will tell you a lot. It will help you focus on you and not have expectations, and not be disappointed...and deal with some of the things you need to deal with.

Keep going back (to face to face alanon meetings).

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

I also wanted to add -- when an alcoholic comes out of rehab, if they have found recovery, and if they truly want to get better, get healthy, stay clean and sober...then their sobriety will be first, foremost, and only. They will focus on their sobriety as it is the most important thing in the world. That's hard for us to deal with. Yes, acceptance is part of it, and so is compassion and understand, and, patience. Be patient.

When my wife came out of her first rehab, I was ready -- I was so ready to support her, let her do what she needed to do, and just be there and let her focus on her sobriety. So, she came home...no meetings, no IOP, no therapy, no sponsor, no nothing. She went right back to hanging out with her friends, going for lunch, going to the spa, sleeping, going out, etc. Wow. I was devastated. Like you, she wasn't around for me, the kids, friends, family (only her "party" friends). Nothing. She used "staying sober" as her excuse to behave this way, do these things, etc. At a certain point, something had to give. I was not going to live that type of life.

He is newly sober, and you are new to alanon. Learn, read, start to focus on YOU and the changes you need to make. If this is going on one year from now, you will be far, far, better off as you will have gotten better and made progress. Your situation may not have gotten better -- but you will be better equipped to handle it, face it, deal with it, etc.

But, for the time being, focus on YOU and do what you need to do to get better and get healthy.

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

For me, I found that as I voiced my expectations, which I did, at first as soon as they arrived, then with alanon I learned to wait, I also came to accept they weren't being met and then that this was because of another's inability to do so, not because it was any fault of my own. Eventually the admission came. I love you but I can't be what you need. It was honest. We got very dishonest with ourselves in the throes of it. I guess I'd say, recovery, honest all your heart recovery, it works. And the best thing about it is, we don't have to wait for that magic time when they do theirs. We can just go right ahead and start on our own. Welcome and keep coming back.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Jamom))) - I too send a warm welcome....glad you found us and glad that you shared. We've had our fair share of treatment center discharges and the best suggestion I have is to 'act as if' he's still not home yet....I say this simply because if you expect nothing and he does something, it feels almost like a 'bonus'.

While I realize nobody gets married to another adult expecting to have to carry the load alone, it happens. It happens with most diseases and I have to keep in mind that alcoholism is a disease and not a choice. The first few years are extremely hard for one trying to get and stay sober as most of us (in AA also) have never adulted without the assistance of mind altering substances - alcohol and/or drugs. Each experience is frightening as it's considered a first for so many of us.

What did work well for me when I truly needed help/something was to say it exactly as I felt - I could really use your help with ..... Expecting another to read my mind and intuitively know to take out the trash, load the D/W, watch the kids, etc. was just another way of setting me up for disappointment/anger.

This disease is a thinking disease and whether we like it or not, the disease tells the drinker that we didn't hurt anyone but self. It takes a while of clean/sober time to be able to peel back layers and 'see' how I hurt others. Even when the substances are removed, there is still an issue with thinking - which is why most in recovery start each day the program way - to remember who we are, what we've gone through, where we are at and how we got here!!!

Keep coming back - there is always hope/help in recovery!!

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene