I hear you, and I feel for what you are going through. Co-dependency is a very dangerous, slippery slope. It can take on many forms and fashions. So, it's unbearable -- unbearable dealing with his outbursts. OK, so two things -- first, look at your role. Look at your involvement. Look at your contribution to everything that is going on. When I was faced with the same thing -- nonstop, constant, daily, multiple times a day outbursts, my sponsor held me accountable and pushed me to look at my role, my contribution. I kept saying I had none. I kept asking how do I deal with this. What could I or should I have done. He said, look, look hard at my role, my contribution. So, my role...was nothing more than my presence! I kept going places with her, when I knew she was drinking or simply not healthy. I kept getting and being "involved" with her, various projects, tasks, conversations, etc. It didn't matter why -- yes, it was for many reasons -- but I just kept "volunteering" and doing it. There was no upside. It was the stereotypical no win situation. But I kept doing it. So, the bad outcomes, results, incidents kept happening. NOTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES. Think about this. Don't just knee jerk it. Think about it, explore, discover, do the work around this...STEP ONE...ACCEPTANCE

Second, it was unbearable for me dealing with her outbursts...so, the answer was...I didn't deal with them any more. Period. I had to build solutions all around that -- detachment, both physical and emotional, not enabling, setting boundaries, not engaging, letting go, and making changes. Changes in my thinking, my behavior, my actions, my reactions, and more. My wife too destroyed and lost many phones over the course of a year. Starting with the third time -- she needed, wanted, a new phone, so guess what...she went, on her own, to the store, or called the carrier, and she got a new phone. She struggled with questions, confusion, not knowing which was the right phone, plan, and so forth...so guess what...she struggled. I didn't jump in and fix it. She had to figure it out on her oww.

So, you left. You walked away. You went to a coffee shop. You didn't answer his calls. You replied to a few texts -- and I don't know what you said -- but NOTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES. Don't reply. You don't want to go back. Notice how it's not important what he's saying -- I love you, I hate you, whatever. It is not about him. It is about YOU. And...you don't know if you are doing the right thing. OK, guess what...YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING. There is no reasoning with him. Stop trying. Let it go. Don't take him. Call a friend, go to a movie. Let him marinate in his own misery and anger. Let him feel the consequences of his own actions and behavior. Focus on YOU.

This disease drives us insane. The whole family caught up in the merrygoround until confusion and exhaustion make it so we can't see the wood for the trees. There is hope. Change has happened for thousands of people that walked your shoes. I'm one if them. Change came through meetings reaching out as you are doing here. Also reaching out by phoning members. Getting the books. Courage to change one day at a time. Also a pamphlet I foynd really helpful called the merrygoround called denial. It's available free online I think. The books are available from the alanon website and usually at meetings. Your husband is behaving like a spoilt brat and your his mother. That's what I did too and then I learned the disease thrived in these dynamics and if change was going to happen then I had to change. Can you think about a plan b for yourself? Somewhere safe to go to maybe stay for a break from this? He needs consequences of his actions desperately. Like a big grown up man. It's not ypur job to provide them but maybe step out of the way. He smashes his phone why take on his responsibility by helping or paying for a new one? Can you consider a different approach? Alanon will help you but it takes real commitment.

(((EllaBella))) - so very sorry for the chaos/drama caused by the disease. It's overwhelming and it's all consuming, which is one reason of many that recovery gave me what I desperately needed. I felt so stuck and lost and broken when the disease was pulling at me in many directions. I too really did not understand how to detach and/or build boundaries and did not learn how to do so until I fully committed to recovery.

Others who came before me gently helped me as well as a sponsor. My experience is that the cycle of insanity did not slow down until I made changes. I had to make recovery my priority and if that meant things went undone, that's what had to happen. Until I finally and fully committed to being powerless over the disease and the diseased, and leaned into all that recovery offered, all efforts were temporary.

Be gentle with you and you do have a right to a peaceful life. I believe that we feel we are 'stuck' in a marriage, in a home, in a ...... and that's not always true. It was so very, very helpful for me early on to focus on the Just for Today bookmark...I'll share so it's handy for you -

JUST FOR TODAY I will try to live through this day only, and not tackle all my problems at once. I can do something for twelve hours that would appall me if I felt that I had to keep it up for a lifetime.

JUST FOR TODAY I will be happy. This assumes to be true what Abraham Lincoln said, that Most folks are as happy as they make up their minds to be.

JUST FOR TODAY I will adjust myself to what is, and not try to adjust everything to my own desires. I will take my luck as it comes, and fit myself to it.

JUST FOR TODAY I will try to strengthen my mind. I will study. I will lean something useful. I will not be a mental loafer. I will read something that requires effort, thought and concentration.

JUST FOR TODAY I will exercise my soul in three ways: I will do somebody a good turn, and not get found out; if anybody knows of it, it will not count. I will do at least two things I dont want to do just for exercise. I will not show anyone that my feelings are hurt; they may be hurt, but today I will not show it.

JUST FOR TODAY I will be agreeable. I will look as well as I can, dress becomingly, keep my voice low, be courteous, criticize not one bit. I wont find fault with anything, nor try to improve or regulate anybody but myself.

JUST FOR TODAY I will have a program. I may not follow it exactly but I will have it. I will save myself from two pests: hurry and indecision.

JUST FOR TODAY I will have a quiet half hour all by myself and relax. During this half hour, sometime, I will try to get a better perspective on my life.

JUST FOR TODAY I will be unafraid. Especially I will not be afraid to enjoy what is beautiful, and to believe that as I give to the world, so the world will give to me.

Sending tons of (((hugs))), thoughts and prayers...

 

 

(((((Ela))))) you're growing.  Our growth doesn't happen overnight or instantaneously.  Additionally intimately practicing the "courage to change the things we can" takes place 24/7 until things start coming around.  I learned to use the police and public services to help the change.  If this was a neighbor person or anyone else you would have an easier time justifying using the outside services.  He needs to have strange others standing besides you to understand the need to change and that they will be there over and over and over until he makes change.

My sponsor taught me a very simple idea which still works decades later.  "If what you find is causing you trouble...do the opposite".  He didn't mean do something to make it worse...make it change.  We have lots of examples on the board about "different" things we can do that other members have done that worked for them...Do something different.  Might the attitude that things are not so much worse as they are different.   Hold him responsible 24/7.  He has problems whether they are cell phone or behaviors or what have you and they are his problems.

The opposite of fear is love.  You will not fear that which you love and as I was taught "Love is the complete and total     acceptance    of every other human being for exactly who they are.  Included yourself inside of the "every other human being group" and use the courage to change what you can.

Do not take him to an open Al-Anon meeting...it is not for alcoholics.  It is for you and others who are practicing how to work the program and recover.   ((((hugs)))) 

Early on when making change was uncomfortable for me, and I was afraid to do it, I went into denial. I convinced myself that "the alternative" was much worse. So, I kept doing what I was doing. That was my contribution, my enabling, etc. I would make a decision that I wouldn't go with her -- wherever it was -- and when the moment came, I got yelled at, screamed at, intimidated, bullied, and so forth. So, I then said in my own head -- oh, look, the alternative, the change I wanted to make, me deciding not going -- was worse. I convinced myself that my making change actually made things worse. It's possible it did, for that moment. Just that one time. But it really wasn't worse. It was simply my wife wanting what she wanted, wanted me to do something with her, and she did everything possible to get me to do it -- and part of that was her making it worse for me. But, it wasn't. 

While it seemed worse -- it was necessary. It had to be done for me to get better. My sponsor said it was two steps backward for a moment, for me to make one step forward for the future. He was right. That happened a lot when I told her I was going to meetings. She threatened everything. She ended up doing very little to nothing. I learned, all of it, had nothing to do with her. It had to do with me. Just me. Nothing changes if nothing changes. Change may not be easy. It may be uncomfortable. It may be hard. But just for that moment in time. I got verbally abused, and I got physically assaulted and attacked. The first time the police came -- a neighbor called them -- I was scared. But why? I didn't call them. LOL. And guess what, the second time -- I called them! And I wasn't scared. Then, the dynamic changed. I kept detaching. I kept standing by and honoring my boundaries (important to note -- it was ME who was honoring my boundaries, not HER). And then she started to change. She started begging me to be there for her, support her, help her, etc. So, what did I do? Two things -- one, I caved and started doing what she wanted. Because she begged and pleaded. I thought now I had an edge or an advantage. And, two, I started to try and negotiate and use that edge to my advantage, and get her to stop drinking, stop the anger outbursts, etc. I started to try and control and manipulate her into behaving. Big mistake. I quickly stopped. 

In the end, just 30 days later...my situation got better. I got better. I got healthy.

Side note -- from my experience -- don't be afraid if he shows up to a meeting. It won't be the first time. Everyone there will be there for you!!! They will step up for you!!! That's what I learned. Go to your meeting! Find a sponsor. Start doing the work. One day at a time. If he shows up, he will quickly be sorry that he did. 

-- Edited by Bo on Thursday 8th of March 2018 01:37:52 AM

Big, big hugs, (((Elabella))), I can so relate. I remember I used to be driven by fear too, so I kept "helping", enabling, anything just because I also felt the alternative would be worse. I had two major things I was scared witless to do in fear of ex-abf's reaction. In Alanon I somehow found the courage and did the next right thing despite of fear, but it took me months in the program to get there. Don't beat yourself up, (kettle calling the pot black, that is! Lol. I'm trying to follow my own advice too). Alcoholism is crazy all around, and the longer I'm in the program, the crazier it seems to me - within the A, and within myself as a collateral damage. My A used to bully and manipulate me to no end, too. Take care of yourself and keep coming back!

(((Elabella)))

I can so relate. Sigh. My wife, with her 2 drunk friends in tow, arrived late to one of my AlAnon meetings while I was early in the program. I remember them snickering while they stomped down the hallway to the meeting room like a heard of elephants. The thing was, the outcomes of that were really good for me. She showed up. Ok, so what? Her drunk behavior and the drunk behavior of her friends at the meeting reflected on THEM, not on me. And, the old timers in my group weren't put off by them. They knew just what to say and do, and I learned a lot just by watching them. The double winners in my group also had some insightful things to say. She did that a few more times without drunk friends in tow, but has since given up on that approach because it didn't stop me from going to my meetings. The structure of the meetings helped, too. She got to share, when it was her turn, but otherwise, no one would tolerate her saying ANYTHING or otherwise disturbing the group. I didn't have to address it, the group told her that her behavior was unacceptable, and I was able to stand with them instead of standing alone and isolated.

A lot of us have been there - we have been embarrassed to be associated with such public drunken antics.
Slowly, I learned to walk away from them. Sometimes literally for 5 miles to get home.
I am learning to not run in and fix things that she ought to be able to do herself. It is still hard for me. Yesterday before she went to work, she had to figure out low tire pressure, because she hadn't taken care of it Tuesday. Last night, she filled her washer fluid in her car and figured out how to replace one of the headlight bulbs. I like working on cars, but I set a boundary that her car maintenance is her own responsibility. She felt proud, independent, and accomplished that she'd figured the lightbulb out. If I had run in and fixed things, she would feel dependent on me, instead of capable and accomplished, so I think letting her take care of her own issues is a good thing.

Good for you for walking away. Boundary setting is hard. I cannot emphasis enough how hard it was for me, and how hard it still is. over three years in the program and with me practicing these things, she's started to accept my boundaries when I say "I am not going to talk about this right now" or "let me think about that". It is refreshing. Walking away, setting boundaries, that still feels like lifting something heavier than me, but at least it is lighter than the 300 pound weight I started with three years ago

Keep coming back, and remember, his behavior reflects on him. You don't have to participate or engage. You can chose to do something different.

It's always about change back .. go back to allowing me to do what I want to do, .. go back to me knowing your response.

Change is challenging for the simple fact it's the unknown. That's why sometimes when the A stops drinking it is harder to deal with them because it's all new .. it's no different to them when I start to do something different.

Keep coming back .. Hugs S :)

The now ex A put me in the middle all the time. He also had very very expensive temper tantrums 

Boundary setting is very hard. It takes a lot of practice  it is not about you doingnsimething #wrong#   It is about you learning new skills. ..

Be kind to yourself stop beating yourself up.  You will have his moments and really hard ones  Detaching is really really hard work in the beginning.  It is like lifting a 300 lb weight first off  

 

If you gave a sponsor or people to call it really helps. There is a chat room here too  When I was in the thick of it  I just craved to be heard    

One other thing that us really helpful us to have a gratitude practice. It is pretty hard to practice gratitude every day    I emailed a sponsor and some other people things I was grateful for  

 

When I was dealing with all this in a relationship I felt great shame  I also was absolutely enraged  I have had to work hard to learn how to deescalate. Take time outs find thinbgs that make me feel better.   I really work hard these days to not be in situations that trigger me.     I let it go when I get triggered but I work on not veingbaroynd people who seek to make things worse.  Sometimes that requires creativity 

Remember the alcoholic us ak ways trying to set up situations so he can feel like a victim and have an excuse to drink  For whatever reason he needs to be in this aggrieved role  .

You don't have to take on the role assigned to you. 

 

 

 

 

 

I can also relate. The chaos and unpredictability of life with an active alcoholic felt unsustainable to me. But also, that is what brought me to Al-anon! Broken phones and broken windows, violent outbursts. You are not alone. And you are strong to have made it this far. Keep coming back. It really does work.

Elabella I think you did great. Yes, it's confusing and I often doubt myself too. But you walking away and setting that boundary took a lot of courage. Was there some other decision that you could have made that would have made things easier? Maybe but it's really unlikely. I know that my in my own experience my ExAW started having a lot of problems when we both started our programs around the same time. I was starting to change the way I went about things. Nothing ever set her off more than me setting a healthy boundary though.

I could do all my meetings and have all the literature but for me to say "No, I'm not comfortable with that" was unheard of and was met with increased insanity. It then got bad enough that I had to end the marriage. There are no easy answers and I've heard other's stories that were much worse than mine but they somehow kept the relationship. I believe I made the best decision I could for my family and I.