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Hello all,
It's been a long while since I posted last. I've been working hard at making my marriage work and trying to be strong. Yesterday we crossed the bridge I knew was inevitably in our path with my AH heavy daily drinking. His health is now affected. He got scared when he discovered blood inhis stool, (sorry if this is tmi). He went to a walk-in clinic and they sent him for all sorts of blood work, urinalysis, stool specimens etc. Well yesterday the dr called to have AH come in to go over results. Of course it was all worrisome news- AH asked me to join him for the appointment, He is dealing with anemia, his red blood cell count is low, and his liver numbers are off kilter. The dr told him to his face- you continue drinking like this and you will die. Even with all this info- AH is still continuing to drink?? They've scheduled an urgent endoscopy/gastroscope in April. I am beyond livid. His denial is so huge- he thinks he can exercise and eat more red meat to fix the issue?? I told him the issue is his drinking which is destroying his body- it's not an issue of nutrition. He got very very angry. I'm at a loss. I'm scared now that he will die and my daughter and I will be left alone. He is the breadwinner too. If he dies the fallout will be so huge- I honestly don't think I'd be able to survive it. I love this man so much- it's killing me that he doesn't care about himself or us. His alcohol is the most important thing in his life. He tells me he knows he has to quit. But he doesn't believe he is an alcoholic. I told him his day cannot function without alcohol in his system from 10 minutes into waking up, til the end of the day. Not a single day. He admitted that he plans in his head his day- and alcohol is the main thing his day is planned around. How very, very sad. I'm at a complete loss as what to do. I can't sit by quietly detaching while he continues to kill himself. What am I supposed to do? I feel like I'm allowing this to happen. I am wracked with guilt. Do I move out? Do I just sit by and watch him kill himself because ultimately it's his choice? Please help. Any ESH is desperately needed right now....
Ela, I can't answer all of your questions, but I understand. In my experience with my husband, alcoholism didn't listen to reason, to health scares, to doctor's warnings, to my explanations of how upset it made me. I had that helpless and scared feeling. I survived, and am now thriving, but I didn't do it alone.
This was the time, when I was at a complete loss, that I started Al-Anon meetings. I also started examining our finances and tried to figure out what the future looked like. I talked to a lawyer -- not about divorce, but about financial planning in case he was sick and disabled for a long time. I was in the middle of studying for a new degree, and I finished that degree, which helped my job situation. I started realizing that I deserved my own recovery, and made that my primary focus. I was open with my children (they were adults), when they asked, and one of my children got into Al-Anon herself. Somehow my children figured out that they could be supportive and loving toward both their parents, though none of us could make their father stop drinking. I learned I was not alone, as I opened up to a close friend, to my Al-Anon people, and to a therapist.
All of this was one day, one step, at a time. Each time I planned one little thing I could do for myself, I felt better.
We may be powerless, but we are not hopeless. I love that it's February, the second month, which reminds me of the second step: "Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."
Are you still attending meetings? Right now that would be your best support of course we will support you here however face to face is so much better.
Working the steps and changing what you can.
Alcoholism is a cunning, baffling and powerful disease .. yes people can be told they are dying and try to do it any ways it's the nature of the beast and it's soooo sad. I have watched good people throw away their hopes and dreams. One was a registered nurse and worked her butt off to get there .. and lost it all because of pills and alcohol.
I don't know what to say about staying or going .. that's why fellowship is so important, especially working the steps and sponsorship.
If someone is threatening to commit suicide, call 911, if someone is incapacitated, call 911 those are the things I can do .. I can't stop someone from drinking. I do not have the tools to do so.
Sometimes the answer is to love them from a far. For you I don't know your answer only you do.
Big hugs,
S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
((((Elabella)))). Alcoholism is a terrible disease, I'm so sorry to hear of how its rampaging in your and your AH's life... I encourge you to lean into the program. For me that has been the only thing that works.
(((Elabella))) - I too am sorry for how the disease is affecting you, him and your family. In my experience with this disease, my recovery and my 'guys' I got where you are and also felt I could not stand idly by and allow them to die. Yet, I also knew deep down that I had absolutely no control, no input, no words, actions, other that would change anything they were doing or would do. This point has come about more than once as we've had numerous relapses, hospital visits, overdoses, etc. The ONLY way I found any relief and sanity was by working Al-Anon recovery to the best of my ability.
It was not easy. Each time my car came close to my street, I had a huge pit in my belly and extreme anxiety over what I might find. Yet, each time I returned and things were manageable, taking care of me and my needs got a bit easier. My AH has had 2 heart attacks, 3 stents and triple by-pass surgery. Yet, he still sneaks drinks and has added a pain pill addiction. When he went to the hospital for open heart surgery, he brought his own pills with him. Can you imagine the heart surgeon, the CICU, the ICU and a few others looking at me as to why this was? I stood tall and said calmly and quietly that they were asking the wrong person. I was not aware he'd brought his own medication to their place....this is one very small example of insanity that seemed at one point to be daily, hourly and even more frequent sometimes.
We are powerless over all people, places and things - which includes husbands, wives, children, parents, etc. He's either going to drink or he's not. I too had to let go, let God in and work on me. I also felt like I was giving up and it did not feel good but I also knew that if I did not work on me, I was going to loose what was left of my mind. So - I can so relate and as others have suggested, all I found that worked for me was leaning into Al-Anon.
Sending you and your family prayers and positive thoughts. Just for today (the reading on the bookmark) helped me tons also in moments of chaos/crisis - it helped me to stay in this day and not project tomorrow or beyond.
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
((Elabella)) I am so sorry that this disease is causing you so much distress My son responded exactly as your partner and no matter what anyone said, his AA sponsor, AA friends, myself he continued to drink. Please do search out Alanon meetings and attend-- they saved my sanity and life.
Aloha Elabella and welcome back to the family. There is no expectation that things would be going better for you if you haven't done anything different. I was shocked at that reality myself when I first arrived in the rooms of Al-Anon because I came to realize if I didn't do anything different what could I expect. I was learning that it wasn't my job to fix my alcoholic addict especially if she wasn't doing anything to change her self. I moved around in insanity for a long time without realizing that insanity was exactly what I was supposed to be stuck in. I wasn't working the program steps as suggested and getting the right consequences for that. The disease was and still is stronger than I and today I accept that without condition and understand how blessed I am and we all are for being here within recovery. Keep coming back...this works when you work it. ((((hugs))))
Hello. I am very sorry for the turmoil and pain you are experiencing in your life right now. My experience has been that no matter what I said to my daughter, no matter how much I begged, pleaded, repeated myself, bribed, cried, turned myself inside out, fell apart myself emotionally and physically it did not make one bit of difference in controlling the disease. Alcohol and drugs were the solution to her problems and until she was ready to embrace another solution nothing changed. Thankfully, I was given the gift of desperation and I don't say that lightly. I really became desperate trying again and again to save her and ran myself right into the ground where I was scarcely functioning. After all, I was her mom surely I could save her. When there was nothing left to do and I had not one ounce of energy or mental stamina left I surrendered. I reached out and I prayed for help for myself and I embraced 12 steps. I read all the literature I could get my hands on and I climbed back out of the hole I put myself in. I prayed daily for my daughter to seek help and she finally did and I am grateful every day for each day of sobriety that she has and each day of peace that I have. I take it one day at a time and try to not look to far into the future. It is not perfect, but it is so much better. Where there is life there is hope.
I think there are a few myths about detaching. Detaching isn't a quiet thing Detaching in the beginning is a huge thing. They is it is a very very active act on the part of the person dealing with an alcoholic Detaching is a way to survive intact. Trying to control an alcoholic is very difficult They are pretty stubborn in deep denial and obsessed with drinking.
I think it is pretty hard to grasp on the hold that alcoholism has on someone except to say the definition is quite defining . An alcoholic is someone who keeps drinking in spite of the consequences There are things that we can do to set limits with an alcoholic They are covered pretty much in many of the principles of the program.
There are also things we can do to minimize the dailky toll that someone's alcoholism has on us. One of the best things al anon has to offer is to bring support There are varying levels of support This online group is very supportive and active
Then there are ways to engage the program to make our l7fe better For me when I got here the good news was that I saw other people improve through the program. That was very encouraging.
I am sorry you are in this position. You are not alone The situation is not hopeless. Even at the late stage your husband is at some people do indeed get sober. If you attend an open AA meeting you will hear stories of damaged lives that got better once the person got sober
Alcoholism makes everyone.around it ill. I suffered tremendously before I was willing to consider the program I rebelled and complained about the program vigorously
Sometimes we can be just as unreasonable as the alcoholics. Others could tell 'me too to go to alanon meetings but in my mind i was so sure he was more of 'my problem . i was also so sure we 'both 'knew there was a problem and it was his drinking, etc .. but for him alcohol was a 'solution .. i became the problem when i came along then saying let's talk feelings let's talk truth let's talk alcohol / addiction. (let's talk about all the things you are powerless to change Alone ) when i ended up coming to alanon i came to change 'him when it didn't work, i left a year .. i came back because i realized 'obsession on the alcoholic was my 'first problem. I later realized obsession was my problem period. it would always be something. there is a line in one of our books that reads "when my husband and i got married, we became one. We became 'him .. i was so focused on the addict i couldn't even 'begin to see me. i could see what the alcohol was doing to 'him, i couldn't see what alcohol was doing to me.
we also have a line that reads, "we become sicker than the alcoholics." for me ? there were times i had way more problems than the alcoholic "I was angrier, more fearful, confused, obsessed, hopeless, devastated and desperately trying to force a fix, and more.
There are no 'easy answers for a difficult situation especially one like the above, but there is a solution. Meetings fellowship sponsor literature speakers and consistency. Alanon is a We program not a Me program. Together 'we can do what we could never do alone. we read in Every face to face meeting opening here: without such spiritual help, Living with an alcoholic (Loving one too) is too much for most of us 'alone. I think the first thing that's had to go even before the substance has been the ego and pride (the fact i had to stop lying to myself (denial) and admit i had 'less power alone) I can't change me or my Stuck tapes alone either.
((( Serenity hugs; hope you get to meetings Sooner than Later )))
-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Saturday 10th of February 2018 04:40:00 AM
((Elabella)) You've received great support in the other's posts.
I remember going through what you describe and received the support that you were given, I felt like it wasn't enough. I felt that I needed more because of my panic and urgency to "fix" things in some manner. I was terrified and did not know how I could manage raising my daughter without his financial support. I felt like I needed to lessen the pain as quickly as possible. I had no family support and was isolated. My own parents blamed me for the state of affairs and would not consider that he had a problem - they told me to be a better wife and cater to him more to make him happy. (I guess it may have been more important to them that I "deal with it" than for them to acknowledge they had a daughter that failed in her marriage.)
Since then, I have learned the importance to take time to breathe and keep doing the next right thing. To do the next right thing, I find it helpful to work the steps with a sponsor so I can identify where I need better boundaries. I still appreciate help defining a boundary for me, a good boundary brings relief and lessens the sense of urgency and panic.
Hi Elabella. I'm so sorry that you and your child have to witness this. You are right about how sad your AH's situation is. He may want to quit on some level but it sounds like he's truly beholden to this disease right now. The only thing you can control is you and taking care of your daughter. Al-Anon shows us how to lovingly detach. I can't say that you should move out or not. I can gently suggest that you do whatever is best for you and your daughter. Your husband may continue drinking if you go or if you stay. He might drink more either way too. You didn't cause it, you can't control it and you cannot cure it.
As his health deteriorates there are a few things you can do. Give your daughter age appropriate info. Don't act as though there is nothing happening. You can perhaps clue in a close family member or friend. Let them know that things are getting worse and you may need some help in the future with childcare, a place to stay, or whatever if the situation takes a turn for the worse. You need support and my last suggestion is that you find a meeting. My situation was spiraling for months before it blew up and the thing that saved my sanity more than anything else was that I had been going to meetings, had a few numbers from the phone list and had a little bit of program to aid my thinking.
Thank you all for your input. I really need to get back to face to face meetings. With all the stress of our current situation, including the alcoholism, inappropriate behaviour ( basically what I can only describe as an emotional affair with a girl young enough tobe his daughter), strain in the marriage has been at an all-time high. I've been battling one virus after another for months now. This doesn't help my frame of mind. I keep praying to God for answers, for guidance, for any sort of clue as to where I'm supposed to turn. I'm a stay-at-home Mom and would be in a dire situation if something happened to him, or if I decided to leave because I'm fed up with constantly finding out about his crappy behaviour. I'm heartbroken all the way around. I've been with this man for more than half my life. I don't understand his behaviours anymore. I don't know if its a result of his alcoholism, or is he actually this horrible person now betraying his wife and daughter shamelessly. How do you forgive someone for this? I am so hurt and angry that I feel not an ounce of forgiveness in my heart for his actions with that woman. So I know, I'm telling myself to suck it up, dust myself off and screw him. I deserve better in life. I'm a kind, generous, warm person. An empath. This is why it hurts that much more I suppose. Thank you again for listening to my rants....
Elabella, your post reached out and grabbed my heart so much that even though I don't post here any longer, I just had to reply to you.
First, you are not alone. Many of us have been exactly where you, have felt exactly what you are feeling, and have gone through what you are going through. And, we are here today, which means we got through it -- all with the help and support of al-anon. That help and support consists of -- going to face-to-face meetings, finding a sponsor, and starting to focus on ourselves and what we need to do every day in order for us to get better. Second, yes, get back to face-to-face meetings, and keep coming back. Find a sponsor and start talking to him/her. Many of us have been faced with the doctor stating that if the alcoholic continues to drink, they are going to die. I faced it with my ex-wife. She heard what she wanted to hear -- iron supplements and treatment, eating red meat (she was a vegan), losing weight, exercise, and virtually anything else, except for quitting drinking.
All the talking, convincing, pleading, begging, yelling, threatening, being logical -- everything I tried -- did not work. I didn't get better until I stopped trying to fix it, fix her, get her to stop/quit, etc. I too loved her so much. How could I stop trying to help? But, in my case, my help was hurting. I had to detach. I had to find a way to be there for her, but in a healthy and supportive way. I couldn't fix it. The alcoholic will not stop drinking unless and until they want to. I kept trying to make that happen, make that day come sooner, make that day come period -- but it did not work. My helping was hurting. I too felt like I was allowing it to happen. I went to meetings, and learned that I wasn't allowing it to happen. I learned I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it. I learned I couldn't apply logic to an illogical person, situation, or disease. I had to focus on all of these new things that were inside the meeting rooms of al-anon. I had to focus on me. I had to do many things, and I had to change -- which was uncomfortable.
In the end, when I "got out of her way" and allowed her to feel, realize, and experience the consequences of her own actions and decisions -- she, on her own, got sick and tired of being sick and tired, and she finally made her own decision to get better. It was up to her. And, I had nothing to do with it. She decided. For herself. Now, this is just me and my situation. This was my experience.
You brought up detaching -- and that can be a hard concept for people to understand and embrace. My experience is that detaching is not ignoring. It is not abandoning or giving up on the alcoholic. It is not quitting or admitting defeat. Detachment, for me, was about recognizing that I could not fix her or get her to stop drinking, so I detached from those efforts -- I stopped trying to fix her, control her, etc. I detached and allowed her to feel the consequences of her own actions. It was not punishment. It was freedom, freedom from my obsessive thoughts and efforts to get her to stop. Detaching meant I realized that she had to hit rock bottom and I could no longer try to prevent it, and soften the landing for her. I had to detach from the projections and doomsday thinking. I had to live one day at a time, sometimes one minute at a time. I had to detach from trying to make sense of all of this, and trying to figure it all out -- because none of it, not one thing, made any sense. Detaching can be different things to different people. It is the perfect topic to talk about with a sponsor. I dove into detachment right after I immersed myself in acceptance, because that is what I was struggling with. But again, that's just me.
All I can offer to you is my experience...and the suggestion of going to face-to-face meetings, as many as you can. The goal of 90 in 90 (90 meetings in 90 days) can help you get better. Do your readings, every morning, during the day, every evening. Get a phone list from the meetings you attend, and pick up the phone and call people for help, support, their experience, their insight and perspective. And, find a sponsor. Something or someone other than you and your thinking/behavior can help you. To get better, I needed to change, my thinking, my actions/reactions, my behavior. When you go to face-to-face meetings, work with a sponsor, and start to focus on yourself...you will find what you need to get better.
I wish you all the best.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
) when i ended up coming to alanon i came to change 'him when it didn't work, i left a year .. i came back because i realized 'obsession on the alcoholic was my 'first problem. I later realized obsession was my problem period. it would always be something. there is a line in one of our books that reads "when my husband and i got married, we became one. We became 'him .. i was so focused on the addict i couldn't even 'begin to see me. i could see what the alcohol was doing to 'him, i couldn't see what alcohol was doing to me.