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This is going to be long. As much as I value your ESH, I will understand if you donāt get through this whole thing. I just really need a place to put this out there, in black and white, with all of itās complications and messiness, and this feels like the best place for that. So...AH is considering a job change. A big decision as it would have him (us?) living 1500 miles away from where we are now. A little backstory - AH has a job that has often taken him away from home for extended periods. Much of our married life has been spent living apart, him in one city/state, our kids and I here, at home, in a different city/state. He and I are both from here. Our families are here (most of them). We met here, we fell in love here, we married here and we built our life here. He traveled and was gone a lot, but home base was always here. The kids and I did move with him out of state for 2 years when he was working for a different company and it was obvious he was going to be in the same area for a long while. It was hard to leave āhomeā but it was the right decision at the time, and overall, we were happy. But we kept our house here and always kept the option of coming back open. Which we eventually did almost 3 years ago. We decided that being back home near family and friends was the best thing for our family at the time, so he took a job back here (no more extended traveling - we would be āhomeā AND together as a family for once) and we made the move back. But he was never really happy. Maybe for the first 6 or 9 months, but the job was never really what he wanted. The company he left has been wanting him back since the day he quit and heās remained in regular contact with his old boss, whom he loved working for. Which brings us to where we are today. Itās been obvious for a long time that this job is getting to him and weāve discussed him going back to his old company hypothetically for over a year now with discussions becoming more serious in the past few months. Will we all move? Will we live separately like before? Lots of questions but no answers because it wasnāt real yet. Today he pretty much came out and said it: This is it - the time has come and we need to make a decision. But, itās complicated. Weāve had some emotional issues with our kids (both have ADHD and pretty significant social anxiety. Both are crazy smart and both are in therapy because having all 3 of those traits makes for a rough adolescence). Weāve seen such positive changes in them in the last year - one daughter has finally overcome most of her difficulties and is absolutely thriving right now - happy, smiling, great grades, good strong friendships, confident - just in a great place...but thereās still work to be done and the therapist sheās been seeing for the past 2 years has been integral to the change in her. Taking her away from that support terrifies me. The other daughter has been a tougher nut to crack but weāre starting to see growth in her too. Sheās breathing easier every day and learning to let the anxiety go little by little. Theyāre both in high school now, which in my opinion is a crucial time for kids, and I donāt believe that pulling them away from their school and away from everything and everyone else they know, just as they seem to be finding their footing, would be good for them. Then there are my parents. Iām an only child and my parents are aging quickly. My dad (also an alcoholic) is in his 70ās and my mom is quickly approaching that. There are no pressing health concerns with them right now but I can see subtle changes in their functioning that let me know that there are probably some things on the horizon with them. They are deeply involved in our day to day lives and Iām very close to them, especially my mom. My kids are very close with them too and the idea of leaving my parents behind while we are half way across the country is heartbreaking. So much guilt associated with that thought. I wonāt be able to be here for them as they continue to age - and they donāt have anyone else really. I feel like if I agree to move, Iām going to be abandoning them and the thought of it is breaking my heart. But Iām also not sure my marriage will survive being separated again. Weāre not in the same place we were when we lived apart before. And Iām not holding out hope that it will survive if he were to choose to stay here and and try to tough out his unhappiness with his current job. Then again, Iām not sure my marriage is going to survive no matter what we decide to do - there are no guarantees either way. Taking the alcoholism into the mix just adds another layer of complications to everything. Everything is colored by that reality as well. I feel like no matter what I/we do, somebody loses out and makes a huge, potentially devastating sacrifice. Trying so, so, so hard to process all of this and still stay focused on working on myself. Iām absolutely sick to my stomach right now.
This is a LOT to look at for you and yes, moving away from key support is scary .. especially given the circumstances of his drinking.
There are some things I had to think about before uprooting my kids and trust me when I say moving 700 miles from my XAH with no family or friends around really was a HUGE decision. I did the whole move with my XAH to be closer to his family. I can tell you with certainty regardless if I had minor children in high school or any school for that matter for me the answer is oh no, not just no hell no. I have been there done that and it was very devastating because he made the decision and never discussed it with me in terms of moving away from my family.
Moving after the divorce was a good thing over all. My oldest has suffered for many reasons that had to do with other issues attached to the anxiety that had never been explored and now that they are in college it's been a mixed bag for different reasons. My youngest is doing well in spite of himself .. he's just a kid who will tell you he hates that I'm making him do something have a good time and begrudgingly admit it wasn't so bad I guess kind of statements. I know they both miss their friends. What they don't miss is the small mindedness of the town they grew up in. There are far more opportunities for them and I do not regret that in the least.
Looking in the rearview mirror knowing what I know now .. I would have stayed closer to family support (even though my mother would have driven me crazy .. lol) and when I did finally move I would have been more steady. I will never move away from my current support without the plan of moving to be with family .. MY family not anyone else's and I realize that sounds selfish however the reality is I spent so much time worrying about him and his needs I neglected myself horribly. Now it's my turn. My turn to do what I want, my turn to live where I want to live and my turn to take care of me without being burdened with his crap.
He totally isolated me during his heights of craziness and it made me crazier big time. I played right into the role.
What I did to decide my move was think about job opportunities for me, where did I want to live, and what did I want to accomplish moving forward. I did a pro's and con's list. Now .. I moved there was NO SUPPORT .. LOL .. I mean I moved in terms stranger in a strange land and that's just part of my personality. I have made amazing friends, I have tremendous support and I still see my friends from back home as I say. I am still a newbie in the big ol' state of Texas .. lol. I don't regret being selfish for me and for my kids as well. Pause, Pray, Proceed.
Honestly I didn't have any support from my XAH as is and he would have just gone out of his way further to be more difficult. The kids were already moving away from him emotionally and at this point they choose not to have much contact with him because he pretends nothing is wrong. He will not address the past on any level.
My point is do what is right for you .. I am not surprised he wants to leave my XAH would say it will be different you will see, job changes usually meant something was up at his current job and they were seeing through some stuff and there were things I was not aware of that were happening. I see things again hindsight 20/20 that I did not see at the time. Changing jobs, haircuts, locations and relationships will not get you different results in regards to sobriety UNLESS there is a program of recovery in place .. then it is required to change habits in order to bring in new healthy habits. I knew a guy in recovery who left a job as a liquor distributor because it negatively impacted his sobriety and he made very good money doing that. Different situation though .. again he was in recovery.
You don't have to make a decision today and it sounds like you can stay where you are at and let him figure a few things out before taking the trip. I agree .. keeping the kids in a stable situation for them is huge. I tried not to change my kids around unless I had to and obviously moving to Texas meant we left the state.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I second what Serenity just shared. No way would I up and move the kids, leave family and all even more so with a practicing alcoholic. Hugs and prayers sent
I've never been a fan of decision making that doesn't include/consider all involved. If one is unhappy, but the rest aren't, I'd say suck it up buttercup. If one is happy and the rest aren't, a discussion sound sane/reasonable. If it's split, compromise. It's not ever easy to uproot a family and move away and it's even more complicated as kids get older. Some adapt well; others do not.
I will say that my brothers all vacated our area for careers and I stayed behind as the one expected to care for my parents. Well - they took a vacation about 15 years ago, and bought a house in another state half-way across the company for their retirement. These are people who never did a spontaneous thing in their lives - planned, over-planned, replanned, etc. and during a 2 week vacation, made a huge decision. In all honesty, I was very happy for them, even though I was very surprised. They put their house on the market, it sold immediately, we had an estate sale and packed up the rest --- all withing 27 days.
So - I am reminded of the slogan, "When in doubt don't." Life is complicated as it is - when this disease is included, it is just so much more so. Do what you can to keep your sanity as you consider what is best for you/kids. (((Hugs))) - you're not alone!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Twinkies I would list all the pros and cons of the move ,. This must include the benefit for the chiledren and then suggest that if he is not happy with his current job then maybe the family needs to live apart going forward.. Trust HP to work this out Sending positive thoughts and prayers your way
One of the ways we are taught to manage our children is to present them with false dichotomies to provide the illusion of choice. I think this might be one such situation.
My ESH for you - I am living exactly what you have described your future could be if you decide to make the move. I'm very sad and angry I agreed to move with my AH. Although we moved 1000 miles away from family, we do have family about 2 hrs away and I have a close friend from college about 2.5 hrs away. Other than that, is just myself, AH, and the 4 kids. The oldest was in 8th grade when we moved here a year ago and it has been a rough adjustment for her. I moved once before with AH and kids but that was from my family to his and it was only a 6 hr drive back home. This move was different....
What is different for me than what you've described? I knew my AH had a drinking problem but I didn't know about the disease of alcoholism and how dangerous and strong it is. I had mentioned to him in the past that he needed to get his drinking under control but I never set a condition of what would happen. I guess I didn't know what the "threat" should be that I would actually be able to follow through on so I never gave one. However, he's always been able to quit things "cold turkey" and make changes in his life. I also knew that we were both committed to our marriage so I was naive and didn't have any doubts he couldn't follow through. However, the most important thing to take away here is that I wasn't in AlAnon. Oh how I wish I would've been involved before we moved. At least I can confidently say that today, knowing what I know now, I would never had made the move. Ever. I'm alone (well, as alone as you can be with 4 kids), lonely and angry with myself for being in this position. On the other hand, even before entering the rooms of AlAnon I did trust in my HP/God and have always prayed for guidance before something happens in my life - big or small. So I am usually able to come back to the fact that I'm supposed to be here for a reason. Does it make it easier? Not much; maybe more understandable. The difference: you know more right now - at this point - about the disease and what it's doing to your life. My AH also traveled a lot for work before we moved. Now I realize that it just masked the problem; I agreed to make the move so we would all be together. Ha! When he relapsed in Oct., none of us wanted him to come home at night. Well, only the 8 yr old who is his "protector"; although she knows something is not quite right but can't figure out what "it" is. I just don't want to have the conversation with her quite yet. That is another story and for you seasoned ones, the 8 yr old is going to be the one who probably has the most difficult future because she is the most like her Dad. Ugh.
I'm sorry I don't remember all of your history but I did just re-read your introduction. Are you going to F2F meetings? How about meetings on the phone bridge? I appreciate the phone bridge meetings also. Some of them are just what I need to hear at that point in time. Just make sure you are taking care of you and your kids. Remember that alcoholism is a very narcissistic disease; I don't trust my AH at all anymore. He's also on day 7 of not drinking but without a program or help from a therapist. Only by taking naltrexone. I'm happy it's working for AH but experience is telling me that it won't last. He has mental health issues that should be addressed but I don't know if they will be or not. I'm taking care of me and the kids. I've detached from him but I don't think I've done it so much with love. I'm still angry and resentful. I work every day to let these feelings go but I'm also feeling them as they are there. I now know that I didn't allow myself to feel these before and that I sacrificed everything for everyone else. It sucks. I don't know what the future will hold; will our marriage make it? I don't know. I don't want it to continue on as it is as that is not the example I want to set for my kids.
I also like what IAH said. I wish I would've heard that before we made the decision to move last year. I could've used it....actually, I appreciate all of the feedback you've received. It's awesome that there is so much ESH on this board; many wise people.
A few things I thought after I read your post - 'Not my monkeys, not my circus' but a circus does travel and it will be a circus no matter where you go. You know a lot more about your situation so use that to your advantage.
I hope this has helped. Let me know if you have additional questions.
Sending you thoughts and prayers!
-- Edited by jtpickle on Friday 2nd of February 2018 07:45:16 AM
Thank you all - you have given me some much needed guidance on where to focus my thoughts. AH is very good at his job, so the desire to move to a new company isnāt due to any problems at work, other than heās tired of the stress. Heās been there almost 3 years and heās been unhappy for most of it - yet heās gotten consistent raises and nice bonuses each year. So Iām confident thereās no issue aside from his own unhappiness and growing dissatisfaction. He was with his previous company (the one heās considering going back to) for 6 years, and when he told them he was leaving they essentially begged him to stay. So, for all of the crap that alcoholism has brought into our lives, I have to give him credit where itās due - it doesnāt affect his job. He did call in the other day due to being drunk/hung over, but that happens maybe once a year and is pretty much the only time he misses work aside from the occasional planned vacation. In my heart, I do think staying here is the best choice for my kids, and for me. But I do love this man and I want to give our marriage every effort. Iāve set my boundaries and Iām sticking to them but I also know that this is a tough thing to tackle, and that any progress will be made in baby steps and littered with ups and downs. Iām not sure our marriage can weather being apart if we each face those obstacles alone. But as I said, Iām not sure weāll make it anyway. Heās asking me to make the decision for him by either committing to going with him, or telling him to stay - which he would do if I asked him to, even though he would just become more and more miserable. Iām on the āYou go, weāre stayingā side of the fence right now, but heās not liking that option. I cannot make this call for him though. Heās faced with a very difficult decision - one that would make him very happy and satisfied in one area of his life, but could come with heart-wrenching consequences - and one where the pros and cons are completely flipped. I have 5 months - at least - to contemplate because we wouldnāt move our kids until school is out anyway. He canāt base his decision on what I may or may not choose to do.
If hes an active alcoholic then it's doubtful his job is the reason for his unhappiness. My ex was unhappy in his job unhappy with his friendships his family life etc on and on. The common denominator was him. He was a sick alcoholic suffering from a thinking disease desperately looking outside himself for the reason of his uneasiness and unhappiness. The answer was none of these things. I don't believe happiness lives in these areas of our lives. It's inside. Alcoholism is also progressive. It gets worse and worse. Sounds so very depressing but alanon helped me get to where I could face the reality and helps me make decisions based on the truth rather than the disease. Best of luck.
I second what others have said. My experience of alcoholics is that there is always something wrong. I mean they are dissatisfied no matter what the circumstances. It would be a shame to uproot your children, leave your parents, change your lives entirely, only to find that he's dissatisfied with the "new" job. You may argue that he was happy with it before - but I'm afraid that's no guarantee, especially with the fact that alcoholism is progressive. It gets worse over time. I thought that didn't apply to my A, he seemed to be in a holding pattern for many years - but finally I began to see that things were indeed getting worse with him - and sure enough, it did come to a crisis. So what was good for your A before may not be the same this time around. And it could also be that before, when he was working out there on his own, he had lots of time for solo drinking sessions and hanging out with his buddies in bars or wherever. With his family along, his life would be different. When I married my A, his drinking accelerated because he felt the pressure not to drink at home - which made him crave it more - which made him unhappy - which spiralled down from there.
I gave up various things to try to make a life with my A, even though I didn't give up as many as a lot of people. I think I would have been better off giving up far fewer of them. It was the things I gave up that had really kept me afloat.
I can't help thinking that there might be a third road - that your A could get a different job in your hometown. Maybe not his ideal job, but he could still switch. If I were him, that's what I'd be looking for.
Twinkies - good on you for 'seeing' you've got time and don't have to decide today. I do believe in the power of this program, and when I lean into it, the answers do come for what is the next best step. I have made myself crazy many times in my life trying to project all the scenarios that 'could happen' and what a pointless exercise.
I do believe, as we learn in recovery, that you have a right to be happy, healthy and whole. The program can get you there no matter what anyone else is/is not doing around you. Keep coming back!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
As I was hanging out in the quiet last night, I was thinking of you and something else I forgot to add: alcoholism is progressive. I'm so disappointed I didn't know that before we moved or understood what it meant. I knew the mental health issues (or baggage) would follow and I was prepared for that. I just didn't realize that the disease would get worse. Nor did I understand or believe at how much my AH would be in denial of his own mental health issues and how it fed the alcoholism
I was trying to formulate an eloquent way of stating this to be able to post it but when I just logged on to MIP, I realized that Mattie has said what I wanted to say. There will always be something wrong for alcoholic and it won't be the "same" for anyone if you were to move back - AH included.
I like Mattie's suggestion of a third road/path. You are not the only person in your marriage.
Again, it's good that you don't have to make a decision today. So make it a good day!!
The "false dichotomy" only believing in 2 choices .. when I first started in alanon I didn't believe I had any choices .. then as I healed i didn't believe I had more than 2 .. now I really work on recognizing there is more than one way to skin the proverbial bear .. IF I listen and IF I open my mind to what others have to share. Sometimes I'm stuck in my own thought process be it denial or at least for me my own small mindedness to recognize my challenge is not that special and I'm really not that different from someone else dealing with different challenges I just try to remain teachable. I hope you come back to this post when you are closer to making a decision about moving. Alcoholism and unhappiness are a joint venture .. why does the A drink .. they drink because the sun is shining .. the sky is gray .. their job sucks .. or their job is great .. the kids are loud .. or the kids are quiet. The alcoholic drinks because that's what alcoholics do. It could be any given reason to justify the why's of it all .. the bottom line is I don't live with your life with your qualifier .. I did live my life with a few of them as well as others here. So I really hope you stick with the program and find out what works because the pain of living with active addition is to great to do it alone .. big hugs. Glad you are here. :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
