The material presented
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to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Hi guys, I've been reading the step one to al anon. I fully agree that alcoholism is a disease, has affected me and my family in many ways which are negative and that I cannot control or change my A. However, I'm struggling with the higher power bit. When I was young I went extremely spiritual and after six years of going deeply into spiritual pursuits, being involved with missions and the like I am now an atheist. I understand that the higher power in Al anon is not any specific thing, it could be yourself even, but I'm still struggling with it.
I don't like the idea of giving my life over to something else, I feel like I just got my life back from the idea of putting all faith in something else. Could this higher power be me? I don't want to control anything, I'm alright with accepting that I need to be guided. Has anyone else felt this way or am I taking it too literally?
Hello nyana I too struggled with the concept of a Higher power I decided that AlAnon principles, and tools would be my Higher Power. I had little difficulty turning my will and life over to Alnon as I had experienced the power of the program. Good Luck
The higher power issue for me gave me the impression that Al-Anon was just another religious/churchy program and in fact my first home group and meetings were held on the grounds of a religious sect...that turned me off for a while until I could get away from the fear and prejudice. The religion of my birth has often interfere with my recovery. I heard the program deny being a religion with a caveat, "we are not a religion but if you follow these steps religiously"... I got it and the program became and stays a 24/7 behavior. My Higher Power is cultural, a creator Father that predates all else much like the first nations peoples of the u.s. ((((hugs))))
Hi nyan, I also did not like the religious view of a higher power, but by the time I got to Al-Anon I was so desperate I decided I would not let that stand in my way.
After a while of learning about powerlessness, detachment, focusing on my own recovery, and learning from the Al-Anon group and a sponsor, I saw good things happen that I never could have accomplished by myself -- for example, the alcoholic in my life became willing to attend an AA meeting, although I did not tell him to. Family and friends helped me through a difficult time, although I did not ask them. I still don't understand exactly how these good things came about -- all I know is it wasn't me. So I think of my higher power as "not me." That is all I need to know. Some things are not in my hands, and not going according to my schedule, and yet they can still sometimes turn out better than I could have imagined.
I noticed in reading the 12 steps that they do speak about God ... but even more frequently they speak about "we,", "us," "ourselves." They do not use the word "I" or "me." The miracles that have happened for me have been when I let go and allowed for people other than me to contribute. Some say that is God working through other people ... I don't know about that, but I do know it is not me.
I attended a family program and a pastor gave a lecture. He suggested that for some of us struggling with a connection to a traditional higher power that the group could be our higher power. Worked for me until I was able to make a conscious contact with the higher power I now have. I just needed something to grasp onto and then it seemed to fall into place as I began to work my program
I think we share a common history with religious pasts. What I have grabbed hold of is that humans create words, and we might all use the same word, but it might not mean the same thing to all of us, so I don't put too much stock in the specific vocabulary used, I kind of go for my interpretation of the general meaning instead. The vocabulary of the program has become more clear to me with time, or at least my interpretation of it
And, there are things out there that I cannot comprehend or explain at this point. I can always learn and grow, but there probably are always going to be things I don't, can't understand. If I group them together, and call them part of a "great unknown" and define my Higher Power in that way, that works for me because it gives me agency to learn and grow, and I don't feel compelled to believe in someone I don't believe in. And, like Freetime, by the time I got to AlAnon, I was so desperate, I was willing to try anything, so I ignored the Higher Power bit for a while and focused on the other tools and slogans the program has to offer.
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Skorpi
If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present. - Lao Tzu
My own experience in similar to those above. I was raised with organized religion and that just did not work out well for me. It was suggested to me that I could substitute Good Orderly Direction in all the literature while reading and learning. This became my go-to for a long while, as the word God just brought up confusion and resentments from my past/childhood.
There are many who do recover even as Atheists and Agnostics. Google may give you some more perspective of how that is/can work. As with most things in recovery, you are not alone! Keep coming back!!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Hi once again I wanted to add that early on in program i used alanon principles and philosophy as my HP. Thanks to this program, the slogans and the Steps I have developed a deep faith and trust in a Spiritual Power greater than myself. This power lives within and is perfect love, compassion. and wisdom. I am so very grateful for this growth Thank you alanon .
Nyan - I so hear you on this! It was where I was at in the beginning. In fact, I thought to myself, if there is a GOD, how could he possibly allow this addiction thing to happen to me/my family all over again!!!
Because of my anger towards GOD, I was stuck on the very first step for a loooonnnng time.
Then someone here mentioned that I try acting "As If." I also tried to use other long-timer's solutions to this. So I took the word GOD out of it and replaced that with "the natural world/nature." That helped me. As I worked that step and began using the slogans, and acting "As IF" I began to whittle away at my anger towards GOD, opening my mind. Once my mind wasn't so closed off from anger, I was able to move on with the Steps. I found that if I stopped concentrating on the verbiage, and just went with the feelings, I could move forward.
I still don't believe in GOD. But I do have faith in a higher power and in Spirit now. You may have to try all the suggested solutions... the point is to just try. The alternative is to stay in the place you are...but I am guessing you don't want that, am I right?
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"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
I say, go with the glimmer of understanding you already have, it probably didn't land in your brain by coincidence
wink, wink!
Al-anon taught me that the invisible, infinite Higher Power has an infinite number of ways to express itself so that EVERY ONE of us limited humans can achieve an understanding, isn't that marvelous?!!! All it takes is an OPEN MIND and your reaching out reveals that you do. awesome!
So if you understand the Higher Power as "divine intelligence" sitting within and operating your very mind and body (which I identify with after studying basic anatomy and physiology...) and this brings YOU peace and joy and comfort... go with it. "God" is reaching out to YOU
-- Edited by 2HP on Wednesday 3rd of January 2018 02:16:58 PM
What a wonderful way to express this, 2HP!
Thank you!
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
morning .. my understanding in this is step 1 is merely a matter of admitting .. we're powerless over alcohol (which is also a metaphor so insert a . b . c . ) .. powerless over where we are where we've been .. powerless over confusion or believing in something more changing us .. when we come to step 2 we don't have to believe that a higher power 'will show up or even that a new belief will form .. only that a belief in something 'greater than 'us 'could show up .. when we get to step 3 its merely a commitment to work the rest of the steps ..
the only thing I really know is if we 'try to keep an 'open mind we'll find help .. (hope clarity) ..
for some love is a higher power than hate .. clarity is a higher power than confusion .. hope is a higher power than despair ..
this program is all about change .. changing fear to faith .. despair to hope .. worry to serenity and more .. even beliefs .. the only thing I do know is program doesn't change or need to; we do .. the way we see or understand things 'today may not be what we will 'see or 'understand later .. it's all about possibilities .. the only other thing I know is for me I 'needed a power Greater than Me .. Me was very confused and confusion can't 'clear confusion ..
nowhere in this am I sharing we need to embrace 'other's beliefs ... I am merely saying sometimes we learn by experience ours and others .. sometimes it's in experiencing higher power we come to believe in higher power ..
I am going to my first Al Anon meeting tonight. I am not religious but dont mind bowing my head in a prayer every now and then, so as long as it is not imploring to accept a special religious HP , I think Ill be good.
-- Edited by hotrod on Thursday 4th of January 2018 04:56:05 PM
Hello Another One -- Alanon is a spiritual program Everyone is free to choose his own Higher Power or not have any. You will be welcomed at the meeting regardless of your willingness to pray and please let us know how it goes
I can relate. I was once a member of one of those destructive religious cults that you hear about and literally gave my life for something that was not true. It was a long time ago but I still can not bring myself to BELIEVE without reservations the way that many others do. For me, my experiences have left me able to believe (but not the kind above in all capital letters) in something without feeling assured that it definitely exists or is indeed true. I don't know if that is understandable, but it's the way I am, and I classify myself as an agnostic but have atheist tendencies too.
I've found it's hard to work with the concept of higher power unless you actually have something in mind about what the higher power is. I have tried on so many higher powers to see what fits. I've tried the alanon community, good orderly direction, just saying higher power , the fire of transformation (you can light a candle!), and probably others that I can't remember now.
t I have successfully used my higher self as long as I picture my higher self as being separate from my usual day to day self. I have found useful help in reading and exploring Buddhist and Hindu concepts although I am not a member of those religions. They both talk about becoming detached from the future outcomes of our actions. That and other concepts fit well with alanon and give me a chance to seek wisdom that has a tradition behind it, which feels comforting. But on less spiritually adventurous days just using the alanon community as my higher power worked well too.
One of the most difficult things about my approach as an atheist/agnostic is that as a person living with the affects of addiction on my life I need to feel loved sometimes because my life can be painful. I find it isn't possible for me to BELIEVE in a deity that cares about my personal problems and is looking down benevolently on me, guiding my life lovingly. So this is a place where using the alanon community has worked, because at least some of my alanon friends love and care about me, and there is wisdom that I can receive. Also my higher self is easy for me to picture caring about little old me. And one of the reasons why I've talked about the concepts in the 2 religions I mentioned is that those concepts have helped me to be able to use my higher self as a higher power while helping me understand how to not take control and how to trust and go with the flow of what is outside of me.
-- Edited by hotrod on Thursday 4th of January 2018 01:02:58 PM
Everyone hopes for equality and expects respect for their personal understanding of the Higher Power in Al-Anon. Al-Anons Three Obstacles to Success helps to ensure this. One of the Three Obstacles to Success in Al-Anon is personal discussion of Higher Power.
Discussion never bothers me as long as members discuss how they FEEL or UNDERSTAND Higher Power. This always inspires me because the Higher Power is infinitely vast, for me.
Discussion that does bother me is when someone blurts out what they don't or won't believe in by NAMING a religious organization or denomination or a saint that they personally reject... which may in fact be another members Higher Power. Our aim is to offend no one in Al-Anon, so that all can feel validated and safe.
I respectfully ask the moderators of this board to consider editing posts that negatively NAME anything that another member may actually hold (or include) as their personal Higher Power.
Thank you.
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 4th of January 2018 11:33:23 AM
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 4th of January 2018 12:22:08 PM
Your post was "published" before mine as I was still typing...
You have not offended me and I will leave it to you to decide if you may have offended anyone...?
I've had a similar path as you and ultimately determined that Higher Power can actually be found anywhere, on any path.... please tell me where the Higher Power does NOT exist.
This is why I encourage our original poster because I believe that when I "sincerely" sought the Higher Power, HP was only too happy to meet me where I could begin to understand, and evolved deeper and deeper over the years. It can happen on any religious or non-religious path, God is just that powerful, no?
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 4th of January 2018 12:18:55 PM
OK thank you. I do not want to offend or say anything that would negate someone's individual journey so please ignore me if I say something that you'd like to "leave" with "the rest". (Take what you like and leave the rest.) And I agree that it can happen on any path religious or not.
All that I shared is just my opinion and experience which is still always changing. So I may very well disagree with my own self next week.
I can relate. I was once a member of one of those destructive religious cults that you hear about and literally gave my life for something that was not true. It was a long time ago but I still can not bring myself to BELIEVE without reservations the way that many others do. For me, my experiences have left me able to believe (but not the kind above in all capital letters) in something without feeling assured that it definitely exists or is indeed true. I don't know if that is understandable, but it's the way I am, and I classify myself as an agnostic but have atheist tendencies too.
I've found it's hard to work with the concept of higher power unless you actually have something in mind about what the higher power is. I have tried on so many higher powers to see what fits. I've tried the alanon community, good orderly direction, just saying higher power , the fire of transformation (you can light a candle!), and probably others that I can't remember now.
t I have successfully used my higher self as long as I picture my higher self as being separate from my usual day to day self. I have found useful help in reading and exploring Buddhist and Hindu concepts although I am not a member of those religions. They both talk about becoming detached from the future outcomes of our actions. That and other concepts fit well with alanon and give me a chance to seek wisdom that has a tradition behind it, which feels comforting. But on less spiritually adventurous days just using the alanon community as my higher power worked well too.
One of the most difficult things about my approach as an atheist/agnostic is that as a person living with the affects of addiction on my life I need to feel loved sometimes because my life can be painful. I find it isn't possible for me to BELIEVE in a deity that cares about my personal problems and is looking down benevolently on me, guiding my life lovingly. So this is a place where using the alanon community has worked, because at least some of my alanon friends love and care about me, and there is wisdom that I can receive. Also my higher self is easy for me to picture caring about little old me. And one of the reasons why I've talked about the concepts in the 2 religions I mentioned is that those concepts have helped me to be able to use my higher self as a higher power while helping me understand how to not take control and how to trust and go with the flow of what is outside of me.
-- Edited by hotrod on Thursday 4th of January 2018 01:02:58 PM
I don't think AA or al anon.demand anything. They make suggestions.
In theory at least it takes a lot of work to break free of the destructive influences of alcohol. Living around an alcohol is extremely difficult it brings up lots of feelings and issues
Many people interpret the higher power issue differently
Some people people make the group their higher power
I do know for me prayer and meditation help. I no longer pray for anyone else to change. I do not live with an alcoholic anymore. Nevertheless I would have to say that alcoholism still affects me. Alcoholism is pervasive in our society.
I know al anon has really helped me in many ways. I find the effect grows the more I am willing to be amenable to the suggeations. Of course early on I was not interested in any suggetion whatsoever I was aggrieved
in alanon we generally stick to the serenity prayer which simply asks for us to learn to accept the things we cannot change instead of change everything we can't (won't) accept . It keeps it simpler for us to just work on ourselves .. much of what many share in alanon is merely the thinking that has formed through 'their experiences .. no real right or wrong i have learned .. just my experience and others which are bound to be different at times for of course having different 'experiences .. but at the end of the day we all have those common connections and the common effects of alcoholism (confusion fear anger resentments blame regret obsession self rights 'we're human) .. in general we learn we learn by experience ours and others .. if we haven't experienced something we really can't know .. but if we try to keep an open mind (not close it through self rights) we generally find help with less personal limitations .. along with 'tolerance rooted in 'love ..
it wasn't easy for me either coming in with hp .. I understand .. just my thinking isn't what it used to be (maybe that's a good thing-for me (and who knows maybe for others) .. good luck to you and I hope you find much serenity ..
there are groups of course who use other prayers .. I have learned to accept what I can't (no longer want) to change .. in that respect .. and sharing this with respect .. I've also been in a little while ..
I think I have to decide whether my qualifier, my wife, is motivation for me. She has treated me like crap for years, made the last 4 years particularly and unnecessarily unhappy. Now that she has been sober for 2 months, do I give her a chance or do I still feel like I am totally detached from her.
First meeting was good. Nice people. As a non-religious person, I didnt feel uncomfortable in any way.
Hi I am happy that you had that positive experience at the meeting. As you discovered Alanon is a Spiritual program and all are welcome. I would like to suggest that even if your relationship with the alcoholic appears distant then alanon can still be beneficial for you. While living with the disease we often unknowingly develop many negative coping tools in order to survive the insanity. Alanon meetings, tools and principles were developed to help us to recognize these and develop positive constructive tools to live by Please keep coming back- you are worth it
Hey Another One - so glad that you stopped by and gave a 'read-out' on your meeting! I am also glad that you were met with love and acceptance and did not feel pressured about 'anything'. 2 of my 3 As no longer live in my life yet are related so I choose to accept and love them unconditionally. I am not sure I'd be where I am without recovery....I too encourage you to keep going, just for you.
As far as the original topic, what I love about Al-Anon is we each get to decide what our higher power is. Mine has evolved over my time in recovery as my perceptions/expectations of me and others has changed. What matters most in recovery is finding any power greater than self that helps you move in a forward direction.
We do say prayers in our meetings and some choose not to participate - they just bow their head and/or hold hands. Nobody should ever feel forced to believe in or do something that goes against their core and a healthy Al-Anon meeting will support and encourage all no matter their views and beliefs.
In my area, there are meetings just for non-believers. They are very popular and I've heard good things about them. My hope is nobody avoids personal recovery because of their experience or beliefs or lack thereof...there is always hope and help in recovery!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I think the decision of should I.stay or should I.go evolves when you have al anon under your belt.
These days I am reluctant to go into any situation that might hurt me. I value my serenity. Nevertheless how you exit any relationship is key. I left a job a year go because the behavior of one of my co workers was boorish. For me personally I have that trait where I tend to hang on. I fear change. Now one year later I an so grateful I do not have to deal with him.
