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I'm feeling so defeated. I haven't had the time for meetings. I'm still a newbie and am so confused, sad, angry, defeated. AH has been off of work for the last week and things have gone from bad to worse. And it's ME who is losing control. Today he went Christmas shopping on his own- which he absolutely hates. He gets anxious in big crowds- and just nasty in general as a result. He asked if I wanted to join him and I said no thanks. Throughout the day he kept calling me- frantic, anxious, annoyed. I didn't want to tell him it was his choice, so I just listened and tried to lighten the conversation. He kept getting progressively frantic through the day and finally called and asked if I could pick him up from the subway station. I went, got him. He wreaked of alcohol when he got in the car. I ignored it. Then we got home and he gave me a rundown of his day- it basically consisted of several pit stops at bars along the way, with the explanation that he had to pee? I could tell he was drunk because he was starting to get agitated and aggressive with me over him not being able to find his hairbrush?! Then the trigger for me- he asked me to go to the beer store AND to buy a Mickey of brandy. He quit hard liquor in the summer in an attempt to curtail the drinking. I was shocked. And I reacted. Very very badly. I started to yell and scream and basically went off the deep end. I went crazy on him. Like, on the verge of violent. I finally got my wits about me and left the house. The whole time I'm feeling like a complete failure. He is sick I tell myself. But here's the thing- I'm so done with dealing with this insanity. Like truly done. I cannot fathom another day in life like this. I feel so awful because most of his family abandoned him for various reasons- and our daughter and myself are the only family he has. I feel guilt for being mean and not wanting him around me. I'm so torn. Our marriage and relationship have lasted close to 30 years. Yes, alcohol played a role, but it never took control of me- nor did I think it did him. I was wrong. I feel like a hypocrite because of this. I used to drink with him all the time. Now he thinks I'm just a b&$@" who suddenly is holier than thou. I'm not. I enjoy having a drink, but I feel like a jerk if I drink with him. He gets nasty and aggressive. Now I'm turning into that person without even drinking. And a hypocrite. I'm feeling so awful about my actions. Any ESH would be appreciated. Im so very confused right now...
(((Elabella))) WoW!! that just is so sick and I know what it is like to wear you shoes. Alcoholism beat my wife and I at every turn until there wasn't any excuse I could or would come up with to escape recovery. My life became sane in the program. If you know where and when the groups meet give yourself every reason to be there.
Take care of you first and your child. He is grown and has choices even with his disease. You are human and trying to cope with horrible circumstances. Beating yourself up while alcoholism is whooping both of you right now....gonna make you more likely tp blow. There is a whole middle ground/myriad of choices and coping skills aside from extremes that the disease will push you to. You don't "have to" focus on abandoning him or blow up. Alanon teaches the challenging but life saving skill of detachment. This will get you off the roller coaster to at least nreath and gain clarity. This board can help a lot too. Seen it happen...
Hi Ellabella firstly ((((HUGS)))) I so identify with what you are saying. The insane dynamic where I am the one who ends up raging and screaming and cursing is familiar to me too. At a certain point I stopped raging, I think partially because I ran out of energy and partially because it became clear to me that it doesn't help. However I think the anger stuck around and turned itself into other behaviours.
I am in the process of a separation now. Coming to recovery has shown me that the focus needs to be on me. Something that has happened in my relationship is that I do not like who I become in our dynamic. His disease activates my disease and I start overfunctioning, controlling, manipulating, raging. The worst part is that I know this is a sick broken man in front of me, but as I shared in another post earlier, I am actually powerless over my disease and desires to do these things and NEED a higher power to get me out of this rut I am in.
There is something in one of the al anon brochures, maybe someone knows it off by heart - that says the affects of alcohol are too much for almost anyone to manage. This helped me let go of the expectation that I should be "fine" and "not losing it." It helped me understand and love myself more to know that I am not the only one who can't "get this thing under control" or I am a "bad, not supportive wife" or something like that.
Coming here to Al Anon I see that some people are able to step out of the insanity and stay married. For my own reasons I believe that the best way forward for me is to hit pause on this unhealthy dynamic and get space from my husband to be able to focus on my recovery and make a decision about the future of the relationship.
Hi Ellabella. Sorry that you have to experience this distress. A few weeks ago I was feeling bad for having an overreaction to something my STBXAW had done. When I told my sponsor, his answer? "Well, you just proved you're human". What you can be grateful for is that you have the insight to see it's a big problem and have a desire to change.
-- Edited by WestMan on Friday 22nd of December 2017 02:13:34 AM
I remember feeling this way and its awful. Its the disease of alcoholism that distorts our thinking. We give ourselves such a hard time, huge lack of self love or self understanding and the disease thrives in it. Your only human, why wouldn't you go crazy when faced with this manic behaviour? We all do. Think about Alanon like a tool box. Did you pick up any tools in the situation like did you call an alanon member? They would have helped you. I know it took me a long time to pick up the tools especially calling members but I do today because I know my thinking is distorted, im broke, my thinking is broke and so I need an objective view on things when I have lost a grip on reality.
Your husband is behaving just as an alcoholic does, no real surprise and there's nothing you can do to change his disease, its too big and powerful for you.
You can change you though. Working this program got me to the truth of this type of scenario. I learned that I was a perfectionist and I expected perfect behaviour from me at all times, non human perfection so that led to crazy over the top guilt not based on reality and very poor self talk and so my self esteem was low. I learned that I had a distorted view of how much power I had over my drinker. I had to get myself into the human race and accept my humanness and powerlessness.
I also had to take responsibility for my enabling, picking up the phone to listen over and over again to his ranting or anxiety or whatever he calls it enables him to continue and encourages it to grow. Learning to say, Im sorry you feel that way but I dont want to talk about this right now is polite, non judgemental and good for both of you. End these conversations, don't listen to every crazy thought that pops into his head, it validates him and it takes away your peace of mind, its a lose lose. He will also use every excuse in the book to justify his drinking, its keeping him babyfied, he gets to say no one cares about me that's why i drink. This is a lie. He drinks because hes an alcoholic good family or not. Until he lets go of all these justifications and there can be hundreds of poor me stories, just read over some of these posts and you hear them he has little chance of recovery. You can help with this one, stop being his audience with these lies, its hard but I learned to do it in a polite way that helped me, I didnt have to enter every crazy conversation laden with self pity, I had choices and it didnt make me a bad or heartless person. It meant I had got some understanding of the nature of this disease and I learned that listening to him was enabling and hurting our family.
This most likely sounds confusing and difficult but keep returning to alanon and sane rational thinking will return for you and your decisions will change based on your growing awareness and acceptance of whats going on here. Try reading 'the merrgoround called denial' its a powerful alanon pamphlet that lets us see the roles we play in this.
((Elabella)) Youre not alone. I too have had those feelings of defeat. I felt crazy and looked crazy too. I had hit my bottom and I was willing to ask for help. I surrendered to the Alanon program and I did everything that was suggested, meetings and calling program people everyday, reading the literature everyday, and taking care of my needs everyday. In time I learned that it is okay to love an alcoholic. But my problem was that I didnt love myself. Today I know my worth and I have enough self esteem to no longer accept or enable unacceptable behavior. Thats what Alanon has given me and there is hope. Keep coming back
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- Carrie
Stress is caused by being 'here' but wanting to be 'there'. Eckhart Tolle
I still occasionally go bad about something or someone and I don't have to live with an AH right now. It was pointed out to me that I was human and not perfect. I would think being human is OK for you but when I lose the plot other people get hurt. Well, that happens to other people too I found out. Nobody wants their insanity to be public knowledge. When I thought of myself as insane rather than bad it helped. When I was able to take my own limitations less personally I had fewer episodes. When I was able to take his or her alcoholic insanity less personally it happened less often. But mostly when I went to a meeting to bask in love and sanity I got self-compassion which lead to so much more ability to hold on to my serenity. I learned that in program they love you for yourself even when you hurt people sometimes.
They told me HALT and I started realizing that the more I kept track of how Nora was doing the better I could know when I was headed in a bad direction.
I learned to use my program consciously. I started to know what was my business and what was not. I started to understand when I was in MY disease and when I was good. I started appreciating the all-encompassing power of the disease that kept me coming back. I heard how other people found choices where I saw only a war zone. Bit by bit I stopped finding time for the disease and found time for the cure.
I am an introvert and a survivor of childhood trauma and I am autistic. How does my sort of person even manage normal life much less active alcoholism in a family member on a daily basis? Don't understand a lot of it but It works even when I don't get it.
The conclusion I draw is that program keeps me open to the good and sane about the bad. Now I have some idea how mean I was to Nora as well as others.
I did not understand how much love and acceptance is in my groups in the beginning. It is the best to have a safe place to care and to be cared about.
Elabella is a valuable member of Al-Anon just by virtue of her willingness to tell us her ESH. Sometimes the hope is implied via the willingness to say it now is all too much and I trust you to understand.
Hi Elabella - I've been thinking of you since I read your post as very similar happenings have occurred here in my home. Here is a long summary of my ESH....My AH has gone "shopping" each of the past 3 weekends which he hates because of the crowds and his social anxiety (or anxiety in general). However, each time it was really just to the bar but that's what I expected would happen. He's also home now because of the holidays and no one is in the office. Here's what I have done to change myself:
* I've made it a priority to attend F2F meetings and dial into the phone bridge. (I know it can be almost impossible to get away but in taking care of me I'm making it a priority. Even a priority over exercising which is hard....)
* I've asked for phone numbers and made calls to others when possible. I'm fortunate that I've met some great AlAnon people.
* I've also been listening to AlAnon Podcasts on the Today's Hope website (todays-hope.com)
* I continually say the Serenity Prayer to myself. I also repeat the Slogans and try to use them where possible.
* I've stopped reacting to my AH. Just being courteous as he's living under the same roof. When he says something I don't agree with or he's trying to get a reaction, I just say "I'm sorry you feel that way..." or "Oh.." I just don't react.
* Continually remind myself he's sick as if he has cancer. (Which ironically is very sad as my best friend is living with a husband who has brain cancer and major short term memory loss. Very similar things happen in our homes. Sometimes we laugh and sometimes we cry about the similarities we experience. )
* Keep my expectations of him low - what needs of mine is he really able to meet? what needs of the kids? Right now, very few.
* Read the Alcoholism: A Merry-Go-Round named Denial. Just do a Google search. There was another post somewhere on these boards that recommended it. It's AlAnon literature.
I had a situation this week where he was very angry and sent me these horrible, mean and nasty text message. However, I was at a meeting at the time and sat next to a woman (who is one of my choices for a sponsor but I'm not that far yet...) and she was able to just reinforce that it was the disease talking. That helped me a quite a bit. On the flip side, I do make screen shots and record these actions in the event our marriage needs to end and I need evidence of his actions. After a few days, during a morning verbal interaction (wasn't really a discussion) between myself and AH, I told him is was not ok to treat me like that and that he needed to decide what he wants his future to like like because I won't be in it if this is how I'm going to be treated. (Not sure that was the correct way to handle it but that's how it went) Now, he's spent the last 2 days crying (still drinking quite a bit) and apologizing and telling me how much he loves me and how sorry he was to send such horrible texts to me. But it's flipped over to the constantly wanting a hug and affirmation from me which is also annoying because I'm trying to get things done for the holidays and he's slowing me down and breaking my concentration. Seriously, every time he passes me or I'm in the same room he needs a hug or affirmation or just constantly saying "I love you" - like he's trying to convince himself he does... He's really a sick man that needs help but won't get it. I can only get him help (give him a ride to the hospital) if he asks for it or threatens to harm himself or others which he hasn't done.
Here's something key: one thing that changed between my AH being angry and being apologetic was that he admitted that he was mad I was going to AlAnon because he could see that I was changing and making him face the reality of his situation which he doesn't want to do. He admitted to throwing away some of my AlAnon literature and the books they gave me. We ended up laughing because while he only threw away 2 brochures I can replace, the book he threw away was his own book he had received from his therapist which he doesn't see anymore. (Ooops, there's karma for you! ) I know AlAnon has helped me even though I'm far from being able to say I've achieved serenity. It only comes in minutes or an hour at a time right now. But that was better then it was a month ago so it makes me happy.
I will also throw in that the rapid progression of the disease from Oct. to Thanksgiving sent me into a tailspin of nerves and anxiety. So much so I needed temporary help with sleeping and getting through the day. I did see my healthcare provider and I'm now using Lexapro (a low dosage) daily. I believe that is also helping me. That was a big step for me in asking for help like that as I would normally try to do it all naturally but it was just too great for me to do alone. But again, I'm better now then a month ago and the amount the AH is drinking is the same. I just take it one day at a time and continually repeat Steps 1 -3. It's hard but not impossible.
Finally, I will admit I'd like to take the kids and run away right now or kick him out. But I don't have a job and I'm limited in those choices. I'm working on getting a job right now. However, because I want the program to work, I'm following the recommendation of not making any big decisions such as this for 6 months. I feel I should give it the fair opportunity to work the way it should in my life. I'm giving it up to God.
I'm thinking of you and sending you (((hugs))). Keep the focus on you and getting yourself better from the horrible disease.
Hi Ellabella...reading your share brought back feelings of my own when I arrived at AlAnon, and off and on for a while after: confused, sad, angry and defeated. In the rooms of AlAnon is where I first felt hope, and it was there that I went to find a relief and reset my mind.
I made it through the really difficult times of my qualifier's active drinking by making every meeting I could squeeze in and reading from the comforting pages of Courage to Change, One Day at a Time in AlAnon, Hope for Today, and Paths to Recovery.
Surrounding myself with the program helped me get through the most challenging time of my life, and I am incredibly grateful. Hang in there, keep coming back, thoughts and prayers are with you
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Paul
"...when we try to control others, we lose the ability to manage our own lives." - Paths to Recovery
Thank you all so much- I really am so thankful to have your input and support. I've been reading your posts many times to give me enlightenment and peace - I've needed it very much in the last few days. Last nights events had me turning to these boards nonstop. We went out to a concert last night. My AH was in an agitated mood off and on throughout the day. By the time we got in a cab to go- he was giving the driver a hard time and me. The driver told him he was wrong to speak that way. I sat silent the whole way. Got to the show- was having a really good time until AH decided we need to leave early because he was done. We started to leave and he proceeded to fall flat on his face in the lobby. Security helped him up and we got outside and hopped in a cab to go home. I was livid. But I was kind and calm. We got home and he went on for an hour about how it was my fault?! I stayed calm. I didn't engage. I kept saying he is sick, he is sick, he is sick. We went to bed and this morning I approached him calmly and told him he was abusive to the driver and myself,and that we had to leave early and he fell which was humiliating for both him and myself. I told him I would never go out with him again when he's been drinking all day. I think I handled this badly? He of course came up with every excuse possible to justify his actions. Said his equilibrium was off because we were in a hall that had slanted floors ð
I'm trying to be nice but I'm just feeling like it doesn't matter anymore what happens. He justifies every terrible thing on some outside factor. How do you fellow alanon spouses who chose to stay married do it??
After many months of trying to get him to change, it was a kind soul here who opened my eyes that perhaps I had hit MY bottom. That person was right... I had! I just could not live with this disease any longer, despite using all the Al-Anon tools. The worst for me, was the emotional damage done by my Ah's gaslighting... it makes you feel like you are c.r.a.z.y!
So I separated, and now have filed for a divorce. I am going to finally treat MYSELF with the love and respect I deserve.
(((Elabella)))
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"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
I am like Paul above.....I literally lived this program - went to as many meetings as possible and began to surround myself with healthier minded people. I literally put me first and if that meant I went to a show/concert with gal pals instead of my AH - that's what it meant. I had spent many years assuming or expecting him to go to things he really had no interest in just because he was my H and I wanted him to go. Of course, it meant that most of those outings were not nearly as fun as they could have been if I just went with another who wanted to be there.
I truly had to let go of my own fairy-tale beliefs of what relationships, husbands, love, marriage, etc. looked like. It took me a lifetime to realize that nobody's perfect and there is no such things as a perfect marriage, perfect spouse, etc. Letting all this go opened the door for me to determine what was really important to me and what was secondary. I love that you are now aware of what you won't want in the future - so ... use the program and put your first and make a different choice....I learned it was OK to invite a friend to a concert/movie/dinner instead of expecting my AH to take me out. It is a lot more fun for me to be with gal pals than my AH most of the time - I'm social and he's more of an introvert.
Yet, in spite of all this disease has brought to my home, as I've been sick with the flu for the last week, he has been willing to do anything I asked when I asked. I have learned to give him time options so he doesn't feel stressed and give him the freedom to do it his way and it got done. He will never offer but he will contribute when I ask. I had to learn in recovery to 'say what I mean, mean what I say and don't say it mean.'
The more I embrace this program, the more peace there is in my home. The more I stop trying to change people, places and things around me, the more peace in my heart. Living one day at a time surely helps as well. Good on you for seeing what you no longer 'want' to participate in - use the tools to see how you can make it work by putting you first!!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I went the path of Westman and Posiesandpuppies....I got sick of detach detach detach...I found the relationship just too high maintenance and too much WORK on my part, focusing on playing "defense" of him and no time or energy to focus on me or "treating myself with the love and respect I deserve" as PnP says...and I like what Westman says about "letting it begin with me" which is what I did...I got quiet one night, cried, and this was BEFORE program but I knew I had to just ask my inner higher self "WTH do I do for ME????" and it was clear!!! I asked me...Where do I want to be in a year??? five years??? with this??? dealing with a progressive disease where the drinker chooses NOT to get help????? I just was "done with it" Done dealing with this....yea, its a disease, but they CAN get help...but so many of them choose not to and it only gets worse if they don't want to get help...My A brother is now beginning to see the inside of hospitals because he WONT get help for his drinking....he had a legal issue re: driving drunk and was forced to go to AA or lose his license...he went and I was like "OHHHHH thank you creator" but it was hope short lived...soon as he served out his meetings, he was back on the drink and now he says to me he will "NEVER quit drinking because he WANTS to drink" I'll go the extra mile for someone who WANTS to help themselves, but if they don't??? I am not gonna let them take me down with them...yea, I love my brother, but I hate what he does....I loved my AH#2, but I hated the friggin drinking and craziness.....I grew up with that and knew nothing else with AH#2, something inside of me said "i am getting help..with him or without him and I am DONE with this way of life" and i walked into my first al-anon meet, not right away, after the divorce, but not long after....I began to find me, to love me, to validate MY rights to a decent life....now I can't stand to be around alcohol...I tried to drink some beer with a big meal , not long ago, when I took me out to eat and when My food came, beer was about 50% gone, I told the waitress she could take the beer...bring me some more water......I just don't want to be around the stuff....or people who abuse it......My heart goes out to them, ANYONE who chooses death over life, but I can't help those who want to die!!! And I can't let them negatively impact my life anymore....what do you do??? I would get into meetings each day, find a sponsor, work the steps and then you can decide what you want to do....go or stay??? its up to the individual, but the ones who DO manage to survive a marriage with active drinker, seems they ALL without exception, go to regular meetings, regular work with sponsor, regular step work...diligent, stringent, NO compromising PROGRAM!!!! They say don't do anything major till you've been in program 6 months....unless he gets violent, then its different..You're talking about your physical safety, but if he isn't violent?? only you can know what to do and that is AFTER regular and diligent/consistent program work.............take care
Also I would like to add that I, too, didn't think I had time for the meets...Found out the MEETINGS were my LIFE..My sanity...I let OTHER stuff slide because the meets were more important.....I literally went to meets every DAY!! for about 4 months, and sometimes more than one per day....oh yea....I TOOK the time for the meets, because they were my life boat!!!! I do hope you can go ASAP...find a sponsor, make friends with other Al-anons who can help you recover as you all work together, each sharing and caring and the recovery is awesome.......You will never get better till you really commit to the program and that is meetings..sponsor work...step work..slogan practice...Yea, read this board, but really for me??? I need it ALL to stay emotionally sober day to day.....this board is great and it has helped me big time, but its only a good PIECE of the RX I need to stay emotionally and mentally sane.....I need working with recovery mates, and the steps are my lifeline, "Life 101" and the slogans...the more of the program you work??? the better and faster and more deep seated the recovery will be..........Just saying
Its such a relief to read and connect here. My heart goes out to you EllaBella, and my my heart swells with a strong sense of belonging when i read other members sharings of experience strength and hope around particular issues such as this. When i react in my disease, to a loved ones taunts i am so deeply ashamed. I replay the moment in my mind as i try to sleep.
I keep track of my hormonal cycles and it gives me some comfort to know that i am much more easily triggered at times in natural cycle. The reactions are still centred around things that cause me pain and i acknowlwdge that. I have noticed that i behave as my mother did to me, screaming suddenly in a monstrous way, that no one else would ever believe as she was outwardly so friendly. I get shivers thinking about how much i hate this happening to me but as a member shared, i am
powerless over growing up around dysfuction and disease. I use my program as much as possible which right now is challenging hence being online. When triggered heavily i try to THINK. Acronyms. Is what im about to do
Thoughful. Kind. Intelligent. Neccessary. Kind? Sometimes i only get to the first one "is it thoughful?" The answer is NO so i can walk away for a moment and reboot. Sometimes Thanks so much for being here i am accross the other side of the world and more isolated than what you could ever imagine right now lol. Blessings xxx
I can totally relate to the CRAZY feeling! I know what you mean about not liking who you are around him, and I, too, used to be fun and party with him. And now I had to "grow up" kind of suddenly - now I'm a "lame, old, crabby b***h", among other things (so he says)... Well it's hard to be fun when you're babysitting someone who acts like a child - and i have an actual child for whom I'm 100% responsible for, too, so of course I'm crabby! LOL But honestly, we DO have options, and sounds like you know the right things to do (or at least, what not to do), and we can keep learning! God bless - have patience with yourself and keep going! I will too!
)
) I know AlAnon has helped me even though I'm far from being able to say I've achieved serenity. It only comes in minutes or an hour at a time right now. But that was better then it was a month ago so it makes me happy. 