The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
In one of my groups, we held a group conscience to discuss interrupting members (gently of course) if their share was becoming too focused on the alcoholic.They wished to include in our opening remarks that "In Al-anon, we share our own ESH while keeping the focus on ourselves and how the program is helping us to change our attitudes and actions..." and it went on to ask everyone to refrain from discussing or criticizing the alcoholic.
Icertainly understood the benefit of the proposal but could also recall my confusion as a newcomer. I told the group I was voting NO because the rule might confuse and intimidate our newcomers. I felt like we were trying to "force solutions."
Those in favor felt that none of us would ever recover if we kept group focus on the problem, and not the solution.
The measure passed... keep your share about YOU.
I am curious,
how would you vote? What helps YOU as a member who shares, as well as an observer in an Al-Anon meeting?
-- Edited by 2HP on Wednesday 13th of December 2017 01:35:42 PM
-- Edited by 2HP on Wednesday 13th of December 2017 01:36:27 PM
Hi 2HP I too would have voted "NO" as you did simply because it is another example of alanon folks attempting to control. I see nothing wrong with the statement of keeping the focus on yourself however, in my opinion interrupting anyone in the middle of a share is unacceptable. Many are reluctant to share in the beginning as they have lost themselves in the coarse of interacting with the disease and many of us were never allowed to share openly in our FOO so that experiencing the freedom of the rooms is extremely important.
At most of my meeting we indicate that the topic is "such and such " we ask that you share on that topic or and if you like you can share on any other alanon related topic.
I like to hear tools that members have used to face life on life terms/ However I do understand that new comers need to be heard..
This happened recently at my meeting. It was a relatively new member sharing at the top table for her first time. She was mostly sharing about her alcoholic son and the chairperson asked her to focus on whats helped. I didnt like it. For me her story reflects her progress and so yes it is focused more on the drinker but i was personally getting a lot from her share and i thought it was perfect for her and surely we are practising patience and tolerance. It truly annoyed me that she was censored in a way. Again ive got work to do on that but i believe the viewpoint comes from the idea of giving others toils to help them but if qere believing we are guided by a higher power then maybe her share was perfect. I dont know. I do know i have a rebelious mind i cant stand rules and regulations and can be intolerant of those imposing them. I will confess though I fund it frustrating reading someone here who is stuck in the problem over and over and they cant hear the esh given. Again this is my own problem and lets me know i will never be finished in this journey.
For me the answer to a lot of questions is "it depends".
After 25 years in Alanon I expected to be focussing on me, a lot more. But in early days i did not know how. I needed to stumble and fall a lot, and then pick myself up.
In the USA, especially, everything goes to the vote. I am looking a lot at Concept 5 at the moment. I expect that Alanon is moving beyond "majority politics" to reach a state of consensus. Not always possible, of course. But well worth a try.
Most of us- basically all of us did not get any sort of hearing in our alcoholic situation. In Alanon we must be heard somewhere. We need to be heard to be understood. And once we do start listening we break down the isolation that has made slaves of most of us.
Here in our MIP we have a pool of so many group members. Our combined efforts do offer us strength here. Being here has given me the strength, experience and know-how to make changes at the local level. It also helps me to buck-up when I am wrong.
I hope you all don't know mind if I share my thoughts....I'm still in the early stages...stuck at the start you could say. This topic for me kinda scares me a little in that yes I have not attended a F2F yet (those who you who have read my posts are going to say....HA knew it). I did drive to attend one...walked into the building and walked back out three times before I finally left.
Anyway....this is what worries me about going to a F2F. Let's say the meeting I do attend has this same "rule" keep the shares about you. Oh man I could fake it like no tomorrow, how am doing. Today is a great day, I did my house work, baked cookies so on and so on. When in reality I feel like my life is falling apart, why because of my AH. It's how I have learnt to deal with my life outside......no one (very few) in my outside life knows what I am truly dealing with daily. (yes I am coming to learn that the statement "because of my AH" is really because how I handle/deal/cope with the situation) I am learning by coming here to share, read, and learn from others who have shared
So yes a lot of my posts here are often about the AH, it's me trying to figure out what this all really means. For me being able to share what is going on is a way for me get it out. Then the more seasoned members will share. Often the things they say gives me ah ha moments, and I get each time little more understanding on focusin on me. Starting small, even "little" things like a nice long soak in the tub is focusing on me.
Anyway.....I want to thank-you for this post.
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When it Rains, Look for Rainbows. When it's Dark, Look for Stars-unknown
Thanks for having the courage to share your thoughts on this topic Curlyblu. It is important that we all feel comfortable enough to express our opinions on group issues.
i assure you that when you go to your first alanon meeting you will be greeted with warmth and compassion. The World Wide groups are guided by our Traditions and Steps which spell out our principles. Mainly we practice the belief that the only Authority in this fellowship of equals is the Higher Power, who is in control.
If you find a meeting you are not comfortable with you can leave. i have heard it said that alanon members vote with their feet. Please do keep coming back
We do have a statement similar to what's in the first post as far as focus. We also are a topic meeting, so truly it rarely happens that an attendee, new or not, goes way left of center about their A. However, I am not a huge fan of anyone, new or old, being interrupted --- gently or not --- during a share and ... I believe it is important to help attendees be aware of the length of their share just so everyone has a chance.
I do like how our meeting is set up in that we ask in the opening if anyone is in crisis and needs a one on one. This allows any member to meet privately and basically have as much time as needed - to vent, share, cry, etc. It does happen quite often and I see it as a great option. New members have even raised their hand when the option is presented. We also take new members to another room and do a first step - we share how we arrived and allow them to do the same.
Curly - I'm sending you tons of (((hugs))), and prayers for courage to attend. You should truly feel safe, accepted and loved - that's the Al-Anon way! I do understand the fear - you are not alone!!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I go with Betty on this on on "NO"...to me??? it smells of control...AND the poor newbie, say he/she has just been cussed out or shoved by their alkie and they need to vent, rage for a while till they could level out....yea, keep the focus on me, but let me feel my feelings no matter..if i need to "slam" the alkie for an offense or just vent about my drunken parents, etc., then let me vent..let me get this out...b4 one can get to the solution part of it, they gotta tell the story, vent/feel the feelings so they CAN calm down enough to say "ok, NOW what can I do to change ME????"..the rooms should be a place where one can share whatever they need and be loved and accepted...Now I know for me, I see posts, etc., on the boards and if I see someone who just does not want to do anything but complain, I STILL let them complain, I just detach from their posts because if I don't see them at least contemplating on "how can I help me??" while they complain, its like I have to discern who just wants to be a martyr and who really wants to help themselves, but even the martyrs can , after a while, get sick and tired of being sick and tired and THEY can reach the place where they want to turn their lives around, but they GOTTA have a safe place to vent or rage or cry and just FEEL....I had to talk a LOT about my abuse till I didn' t need to talk so much about it anymore...Had I been told to just focus on the solution, that would feel like my pain and my emotions and my feelings are not important and to me?? THEY ARE!!!! I was invalidated and stifled as a child...I don't need that in my recovery rooms or I am gone!!!!....
Curly, I understand your apprehension about meetings. I remember someone told me about Alanon and I thought there is no way Im going there ever. I thought it was a place where we learned how to 'help' the drinker and at that time I was so filled with bitterness and anger that the idea of helping this man was out of the question. I was so indignant. It took another 10 years before I reached the point that the misery and despair I felt outweighed the fears or doubts I had.
Alanon meetings are the friendliest places in the world in my experience, you are welcomed instantly in a lovely way, a unique way. Your introduced to a beautiful program of recovery by people who are all effected and all at different levels of recovery themselves so Its the less blind leading the blind so to speak so its not perfect, cant be, the people are all doing the best with what they have at that time. I do know that its good enough for most, whether the meetings have rules or not are less important than the desire for the members to share with you how they got freedom bit by bit from this disease. The program is like a perfect solution being interpreted and shared by imperfect people and to me its beautiful.
People often say take what you like and that is really because we who have lived with the disease tend to develop negative critical and controlling attitudes and thats not a criticism of us, its just that when we live in the chaos and insanity its very hard to trust anything and anyone and in order to survive in this environment we develop negative coping mechanisms and these do help us survive but they can stop us reaching out for the help we so need.
You are coming here sharing regularly, you have opened the door on your recovery but imagine your own progress if you fully embrace this for yourself. It was the best thing I ever did for me and the biggest amends I could make to my family.
I am just blown away by the replies and the shift I feel inside, thank you (((everyone)))
I am noticing something in me I had heard about before, an "addiction" to good vs. evil... right vs. wrong.... friend vs. foe...
I've been thinking that the members who drew up and voted for this were "wrong"
In reality, Ive been to countless meetings where I have disagreed with the group "interpretation" of traditions. El-cee wonderfully pointed out that the problem is always me... David moved me with the idea of "the collective"...
I feel like I am seeing my error, or delusion... the attempts at "rules" and "control" are simply my fellows doing what they believe they MUST do to bring them more happiness... more recovery...
more Higher Power.
and that idea is stirring up my compassion. thank you all again.
@Curlyblu, For me, Al-Anon is a path for finding serenity with the Higher Power no matter what my trials may be. Ive found it to be a gold mine when I embrace every suggestion, making the steps personally relevant for me. To me, the Higher Power who is greater than anything of this world, is guiding me "through" the steps of Al-Anon. This happened automatically for me because this is what my heart vibrated when I felt so powerless over his alcoholism and the destruction of our family. The higher Power wanted to rescue and save me all along, I was just too wrapped up in my alcoholic husband to realize it.
I find Al-anon to be a pure path, a path I can trust because it points me to seeking and making conscious contact... I notice it does NOT point to anything of this world (although some may try to convince me it does.) when I follow the spiritual steps, I know I can never be lost again. Keep coming back... for you... and for us.... because we learn so much from each other. Your F2F group will love, love, LOVE having you, a blessing for all.
I would definitely be intimidated by this as a newcomer - in the very beginning all I could think about let alone speak about was my addict.
After months of not telling anyone what was happening - the first times I spoke to AlAnon people it all came out as a flood.
But maybe sensitivity can be shown to newcomers whilst also encouraging to focus on the solution.
Those are my thoughts.
Isn't this part of the healing process?? I mean did any of us get here by focusing on us or wasn't it really all about the A in our lives? That's where the long timers come in and shift that focus. I am a big propionate of sponsorship. Without sponsorship and having those frank discussions where I could get the garbage out and start getting the focus back to where I needed it to be which is me meetings just were not enough.
I still struggle to share based upon alanon .. some people can talk the alanon talk and do great at it, I flub through it because for me it's never been the dialog until I came to alanon. So I just put out how I am feeling and what is working in that moment and sometimes someone else offers something that I can have that moment of ok .. that makes more sense to me.
It's incredibly intimidating to walk into a room and feel that everyone else has it together and you don't, especially if you happen to be the only newcomer for the evening. People sometimes just need to be heard and sometimes that is the first time someone else says .. I hear you and it's ok. I felt defective when I walked into alanon that there was something innately wrong with me that nothing was going to fix .. there was no hope because there was just something seriously wrong with me. I was not enough.
Today I know that not to be true .. however I did not know that in the beginning. Alanon gave me that I was ok through sponsorship and the meetings.
I guess that is why people always say .. keep coming back.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
One of the Alanon meetings I attend has an opening a bit like you've mentioned. It states that "lengthy discussion of the alcoholic is discouraged here." It goes on to explain the purpose of Alanon to help families and friends of alcoholics. I have no problem with that. It's being overly focused on the alcoholic that brings us into Alanon.
What I do have a problem with is interrupting sharers if they do discuss the alcoholic and "correcting" them. On that issue, my vote would be NO.
TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
Hmmm yes... the group is perfectly within its rights- referring to Tradition 4... ...an autonomous group.
If a group was really out of whack, and came to the attention of the wider Alanon movement then this is a different matter.
If we are 'works in progress' then our groups are too... our groups are run entirely by members, and some groups have their ups and downs as well.
My close interest in group issues relates to the fact that I live in an out of the way place, in an out of the way part of the world. In big cities there is a wide choice of groups to go to. Here we have just the one, if that.
@Serenity, I absolutely believe talking about the pain, the sorrow, the alcoholic insanity, etc. is indeed part of waking up and coming out of our own denial. I also believe it represents early stages of "healing," a necessary process.
I do believe my group wanted to address (control, looks like we can call spade a spade here although my group did not agree, lol) ... they wanted to address those members who have been coming for years still dwelling on the pain, constantly affirming alcoholic insanity at the tables week after week... observing and re-feeling the energy of resentment and dis-ease at the table week after week...I get it, I feel it too. I believe they want to coax (control) these members and propel them forward. I can understand, I do understand.
I also understand that some people do not come to Al-anon wanting to change. no different than alcoholics.
I voted NO because when I leave the rooms of Al-anon, I STILL have to figure out how I'm going to live in a world where people don't act the way I want them to act... don't see what I want them to see... that is what I am up against every day.... so I don't believe creating a fantasy in our recovery rooms. I need help building skills that will help me outside the rooms.
I stood alone on the vote and that's okay, nothing can keep a sincere seeker from Higher Power, David is proof of that.
Thanks again to (((all))) who shared
-- Edited by 2HP on Friday 15th of December 2017 11:38:15 AM
-- Edited by 2HP on Friday 15th of December 2017 11:39:55 AM
I appreciate this thread for prompting me to think again about where my own focus has been lately. I'm currently going through the most insane phase of my life. The program is really saving me and my children. But, I'm finding that when the alcoholic or others in my life are behaving in messed up ways that focusing on them and talking about them it is a bit like emotional junk food. I know it's not good for me. I don't really even like it. It just tastes so good sometimes and when I'm wolfing it down I forget for a little while the healthy goals I was striving for. There's a bit more work with putting the focus on me while it's so easy and fun to complain about others. Even if it means having unhealthy insanity in my life.
Thanks for your complete honesty Westman- I agree and believe that is why it is important at the beginning of the meeting to suggest a topic without enforcing strict compliance. This can also be followed up with a gentle reminder at the treasurer's break .
Naturally all this must be presented to the membership, at a Business meeting, the wording developed and agreed to before being incorporated into the meeting format.
AA newcomers blabber on about problems and not solution too. It is understood and tolerated to varying degrees. People are in so much pain sometimes....it supercedes meeting etiquette....just my opinion. I think it may be even more the case in alanon because alanon members tend to be more female and more likely victims of DV. If they get shutdown too soon...might not flesh out problems that the group, while not designed for, can at least function as a lifeline for where else to go.
The good thing about 12 step programs is if you.dont lil e one meeting you can go to another
Choice is important. We have a saying in al.anon #how important.is this# I try to look.at it like what is the priority in my life. Finding a niche meeting isn't that easy. There are meetings here which certainly follow a formula that makes everyone feel welcome. There is azlso a chat room here which is very welcoming
I know for me personally,my qualifiers being part of the discussion is my way of working through whatever it is I'm going through.There's a big dfference in just complaining,ranting and raving and discussing what the issue is as a way to learn from it.
I also feel newcomers are so distraught by the time they reach out that it's only natural they would talk about the qualifier and all the chaos in their life.I feel it would definitely be wrong to shush them.Maybe a gentle reminder would be in order if it continued for months but not right from the get go.
I've been thinking about this question... it is a really good one. My take is to be understanding of newcomers ... of course they are going to talk about their qualifier. I came to Al-Anon without any tools, and only after working the program for a while could I detach enough to really "get" that it's about focusing on ourselves. I remember it was only after several meetings that I really heard "Changed attitudes can aid recovery" and understood that it was about my attitude.
I think the sentence "In Al-anon, we share our own ESH while keeping the focus on ourselves and how the program is helping us to change our attitudes and actions..." is fine to include in opening the meeting, but I would not add anything about not discussing the alcoholic, as that sounds too much like trying to control others.
What I try to do nowadays in meetings is just share enough about the qualifying situation that brought me to Al-Anon, so newcomers can understand if they are in a similar situation and might want to talk with me after the meeting. That's how I found my sponsor, by hearing about her qualifier and realizing that mine was similar.
As a suggestion, perhaps a sponsor is in a better position to encourage someone to focus more on themselves, or even an individual member chatting with the newcomer one-on-one after the meeting, without calling the person out in a group setting.
I think the sentence "In Al-anon, we share our own ESH while keeping the focus on ourselves and how the program is helping us to change our attitudes and actions..." is fine to include in opening the meeting, but I would not add anything about not discussing the alcoholic, as that sounds too much like trying to control others.
This makes me think of how I see myself and others (who mostly are my mirrors to my soul) controlling by telling others not to control. The urge to give advice dies hard with me. I find it hilarious now when before I'd see it as my "tragic flaw." Funny really helps me. The person I am trying to fool is me and the frantic feeling inside means I am desperate and in trouble when in fact all is just fine except for my thinking. I also see that part of me like my kids when they would get all worked up about how unfair something was. How did I explain that sometimes things and people in life were outside my control? Really I didn't because I was too confused myself. When I have compassion it looks funny or sad and when I get into the "life should be fair" I get mad, depressed anxious and eventually it overwhelms me.
...David.