Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Unbelievable ..

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

((SERENITY)) TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT ALONE.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

I typed a draft to make me feel better and stated everything in it .. LOL .. I will reword in the morning when I am more relaxed!!!

It is shocking to me how stupid these people actually think I am .. I think what is more frightening is the idea they share the same brain. Well he doesn't have one (so we are clear that was a DIG! LOL) Still, I know that response was from her. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

The most ironic part is the fact he did NOT share this information with his daughter while he was talking to her .. LOL .. it's like REALLY? Why would he think I would actually care after everything he has put the kids and I through .. so this is going to be interesting and I am sooo praying on it and I am asking others to pray for me in terms of the appropriate response and starting off with Hey Dumbass is probably not the way to go!!

Hugs :)

PosiesandPuppies · ~*Service Worker*~

Serenity,
I will pray that your HP helps you to find the appropriate response. It is so sad to see someone not look beyond themselves so that they can help their children. The ultimate in selfishness IMO.

Breathe. Pray.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Serenity))) - so very sorry that the disease and the diseased are bringing about a 'new level of insanity'. I do understand how frustrating it is when we watch the spiral and watch it affect our 'little people' who we've tried to protect as much as possible from the disease...

I am reminded of, "When in doubt, don't." I know from personal experience that nobody really cares what I see, think, say, write in the midst of the chaos/drama. You got this - pull out your toolbox and consider the serenity prayer....

I too am sending you tons of positive thoughts and prayers. (((Hugs))) as well!

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

I completely agree and I am angry .. however not as angry as I was. That's a good step. My next step is to just be .. I need to have a conversation with my daughter .. I sent the email to her so I have the full story and facts to deal with. One step at a time.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Good job --- processing anger and sharing it does seem to 'make it more manageable' for me...glad it's reduced some girl - keep breathing!!

Maresie25 · Senior Member

Blood work is routine before surgery. So is a chest x-ray. Generally surgeon's don't do a surgery if someone has a major illness that needs attention

I am not sure what the cancer blood studies are. There are advanced blood tests for cancer but in general a routine blood work would pick up a lot.

I don't like to say people are lying but surgeon's don't do a surgery if the risk is too great.

I don't know surgeon's who would do a surgery on someone newly diagnosed with cancer unless it was something to do with the cancer.

In addition, there are not that many surgeries that put people out for 8 weeks. Unless they have a hard labor job.

Those days are gone.

I don't get this looming cancer diagnosis and then the routine back surgery the two don't jibe together.

I know alcoholic's lie. Their physical illnesses are often real because there are dire consequences to alcoholism.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Marissa I just had a good laugh because that's the EXACT conversation I just had with my boyfriend none of this makes sense .. lying totally does because it's what they do. He does work a physical job that's why out so long with his back. So thank you for confirming what I just had an awareness to and was already working towards. I'm so grateful to have people who understand what it's like to deal with crazy. Hugs s :)

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

I sent the message and I feel comfortable with what I sent. I was calm however it was obvious I wasn't impressed. I pointed out the conversation of him having with our daughter about paying her support directly. I pointed out that it is normal to have blood work done before surgery. I pointed out his health issues were not my business. I pointed out that in all of the years we have been separated never once has inquired to me about the my health nor have I shared that information with him. It's not my business. We don't have a relationship that I feel the need to share with him what's going on in my life. I also put the fact he's going to explain to our daughter why he offered to pay her support directly and why he is unwilling to help her. I pointed out in a healthy divorced family it's a 1/3 of the cost of college. He can explain without burdening her with his health issues. He also needed to be sure his life insurance policy was up to date and the kids were the beneficiaries. Ugh .. now those were the points I hit and I reiterated I am not having these conversations with his wife so he needs to call and we will then confirm via email. So .. I doubt he has the balls to reply lol. What a jerk!!!

tiredtonite · Veteran Member

Sorry you and your dau are dealing with this disappointment concerning the financial help. I'm glad from your follow up responses you're working through the disappointment. You can't really know for sure what's going on his life so no use projecting because that only causes mental chaos for us. Always good to have a Plan B in place when it comes to promises made by typically unreliable people I've found.. having gotten burned a few times in this way. I guess you'll decide whether you want to engage any further with him on this matter... you know, participate in the push/pull dance of insanity or just figure out what you and your dau can do in light of this new information. wink (((hugs))) TT

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs .. I have set boundaries .. they are the ones sharing health stuff and I don't care. I don't wish him ill.. my focus is my daughter's health. If he's going to make promises and not follow through then he can show her who he is and he continues to do so. My expectations and hers are less than zero. He is very active in his addiction thought process. No speculating necessary .. I know his dance. I chose not to engage further at this point. I will hold him accountable for whatever financial hardship he puts on the kids and i. So that is what it is. S :)

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs S. One of my exes used to lie about his mother dying. Then years later after we split, he made the claim through a lawyer that she was visiting and would I allow her to supervise visitation. There was a lot of other stuff going on at the time too. I was angry. I said no.Turned out this time she was I'll and died of terminal cancer, though not before I got to speak to her and say my goodbyes. Didn't know it was goodbye at the time. Point being only that anger is sometimes a bad counsellor. Also....daughters at college now, no? Is it possible that she can now negotiate this herself? And come to you for support if needed? I mean you two have a great relationship. He will do what he does. You are a great mother.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Hes doing what sick people do and i remember reading that often people are behaving exactly as they need too as they may not have the tools to act any other way. This is how i get my compassion because o think of the person as stuck in this pattern and then im grateful that im no longer stuck. Its an opportunity to maybe show your daughter how its done. Either she can be the victim of her father and hes the bad man or she can learn how to understand the disease and that sets her free. If she can reach compassion and forgiveness then wow what a gift her father has given her. Matbe the besr thing to do is take the appropriate action abd let it go. I agree with a4l you are a brilliant mother x

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

LOL .. it was a rough Monday morning today .. first I got into a blow out with my daughter over text. I am resentful that I am having to deal with the crazy. She's absolutely shirking her responsibilities at the moment. Meaning no job, dropping a class because she's failing, she doesn't understand what that means. As in she's paying for that class. The current boyfriend is all of the rage. All this before coffee even .. ugh. I have to remind myself it's her relationship with her dad and I need to just stay out of it all. She's very good with deflection and I have to really watch that.

Then as I am driving to work my son calls me and he can't find any clean underwear and possibly that's a good reason to stay home .. Ok .. after I tried to compose myself moving forward because of the snorting I was doing and I sooo needed the laugh after the text war with my daughter. I did let him know me turning my car around for his clean underwear was not the direction he wanted his day to move in. He discovered it wasn't a conversation he wanted to have with me because it involved body parts and functions. LOL.

I absolutely do not believe my X is ill. Oh he's got other illnesses .. no I don't believe this one. If it's true he won't be out of work for surgery. I am speculating and realize this is all about money. After all he's going to pay my daughter child support directly .. you do that and let me know how that works out. I do believe he's in terrible pain back wise because he was headed there 7 years ago. I also know that email was not from him as it was to intelligent for him. PLUS it did not address other issues that I had brought up. Such as previous conversations he had with our daughter and the additional issues he had avoided that I restated. I still don't regret my response because I was very clear if you want to talk about the issues we are having then here's the deal .. call me directly and then we can email however not dealing with the wife. And if someone is going to put out there they might be dying (which was implied) don't be surprised if I ask about life insurance. Which he's suppose to have. I did have to laugh because I received an email from the wife because somehow one of the emails I used was her personal one which made me LOL .. because she doesn't want to deal with the situation. I'm going to let it ride and hope they pull me into court. I will deal with it all then. I did respond back and said I did not have an email to directly contact Jeff at and I would appreciate a way to communicate with him or I would have to go another direction.

Hugs S :)

Maresie25 · Senior Member

I have to say the ex A who I was with did get ill. In fact he got two really bad illnesses. Sometimes they do get ill.

What I have to remember is I got ill too and he could care less. My illness was in the way of his needs.

I was in the hospital, emergency room and going to a doctor regularly. He did not step up for me.

At one time he said he would help me get on his benefits. That was a grudging thing when it became apparent I was going to leave him.

He didn't help me when I got ill. I helped him tremendously when he got ill. That was the pattern.

At one point in our relationship he was helpful. To other people he made a huge point of appearing to be helpful.

in reality every thing he did for me, he begrudged. That included when I paid for us to go on a holiday.

I don't have a crystal ball and can say when or how someone is ill. I do know when an alcoholic is ill, all bets off.

I have had chronic conditions in my life, some of them life threatening. I was schooled to learn that my health was an inconvenience so I knew to put up with it.

Now my health is a priority I am taking off tomorrow because I did not feel well yesterday. I have a big pattern of over extending myself. Alcoholics as far as I am concerned, are looking for someone who will help them

keep on doing what they are doing. In some ways I was way too over compassionate with the ex A. I took care of him when he certainly went out of his way to not help me.

All his friends evaporated when he got ill. That is another pattern with alcoholics they only have good weather friends.

maresie

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

He hasn't burnt through these people as of yet. He did with the last relapse.

No .. I know his patterns I know him and from time to time I am incorrect however some people are so unpredictable that they are predictable and he happens to fall into that category. He doesn't do anything to deviate from that path.

I do believe the back surgery because he's had back issues .. not the blood stuff and sad to say however he's lied soooo much at this point if his lips are moving he's lying .. he can't help himself. Not to mention I got confirmation that the wife was emailing me as him. Of course she was mad when I didn't buy it.

Either way legally he's bound to provide life insurance or I go after his estate whatever that is after he passes away. I may have to file a proxy to be sure I get what I should and the kids get what they are entitled to.

I have nothing to give him compassion wise at this point and that's where I have to work my program he's just burnt through me to much at this point and time.

If he was in an accident I would call 911 and keep driving that's literally all I have to give. For today it will have to be enough, if he's actually sick he will have to provide a Dr's note to verify everything.

He's got a wife, it's no longer my duty.

Hugs S :)

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I love your example. The way I see it, you can be in your anger without reacting and making it worse, you dont beat yourself up for it and eventually you get to serenity, compassion and understanding and that is what Alanon is about I believe. Im not quite there yet in terms of I can stuff my anger maybe even blame myself a little. Your compassion for yourself your kids and even your ex is really clear in my eyes.

When I think of compassion I dont believe its something we 'give' anyone, that suggests we can judge the worthy and not worthy and I dont think thats what Alanon is teaching us. Compassion is a gift we get, we 'have' compassion or 'show' compassion once we have it. The ownership of compassion is ours, its our gift and I believe the purpose is to replace the power the drinker had over us when they had power in our minds to make us resentful or full of self pity or rage or ill will or mean spirited etc the whole list of negative emotions and behaviours. Compassion forgiveness understanding etc the good stuff is the stuff that 'we' get and it sets us free. The power for how we feel or who we are is firmly back in our own hands and no longer conditional of a sick persons actions choices behaviours etc.

Compassion is often confused with sympathy. Sympathy is passive, judgemental even and puts the drinker back in control and then we 'do' for them what they should do for themselves. Compassion is ours, belongs to us benefits us empowers us, the more compassion the better we feel about ourselves and our self esteem rises and that is where freedom becomes a reality.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

I like your definition of compassion vs sympathy however while I feel compassion for others and self based upon what you describe I am pretty much in the apathy line of things when it comes to him. For me that's a self defense thing because of all of the lies and he continues to show me who he is and now that the current wife is in on the mix .. it is what it is and no .. people who show me who they are .. I totally believe them. That is what Alanon has taught me to believe what I see. I want to cross over to that this is who they are and let them be .. I am angry with myself because I allowed myself to be pulled back into all of this thanks to my daughter stirring the pot. Part of that is a pattern for her to deflect off of what I am asking of her .. which is get a job. This interferes with what she has going on at the moment and she's finding out that I don't care.

I do think we do give compassion through understanding and not owning what is not ours to own in terms of allowing people to be who they are and that we do give compassion by feeding the hungry or doing an action. We empathize with there for the grace of God go I. I am grateful I am not these people. I have enough of my own issues. I think of it in terms of forgiveness until I can forgive myself I have no basis to forgive others. I am stuck in that quagmire of in between. I don't view as I see him as worthy or unworthy .. I just do not have anything to give to him on any level at this point. It's a little like looking at a black hole there is no here or there and it is empty. I am not sure what to do to fill that cup. I honestly at this point feel like I need to be where I am if that makes any sense??

That's just where I am at and I have a recourse of just standing my ground and I am absolutely ok with that because with that comes change provided I don't get stuck in cement. I looking at other ways I can change the situation and one of them is to look at changing laws and setting new precedents so that other single parents do not go through what I have been through. People abusing the courts and using them not to follow through I have been clear I'm not going away. Actually do what you need to do I will go away .. LOL .. I didn't ask to be brought into this situation and next time find another way to communicate. Stop being a puss and deal with your stuff is how I feel. Pretty much what I have stated to him. I have no time for these kinds of games.

Hugs S :)

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene