The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
So I have posted before about my prayers to HP to know the truth about my AH. And HP's answers were quick and enlightening. Very quickly after asking HP, I found out my AH was having an affair and kicked him out of our home. I had already had enough of being left home alone while he was out drinking and partying and confirmation of the affair was the final straw. I was DONE! No doubts, no questions DONE.
BUT.... it seems my booting AH out of my life and moving on may have caused him to hit rock bottom. He's been begging to have me back all of which I brushed off until he decided to quit drinking. Never ever did I think he would do that for me or anything. He has been dry for 12 days so far. I have had nothing to do with it. He has promised to quit drinking, quit staying out late bc he won't be drinking, to spoil me and love me and give all of his time to me and the kids from now on, to never cheat again, to always be honest etc. It's everything that I have wanted during our marriage (with the exception of the affair of course). I would never go back to The old life I had with him. But this new life he's promising has me questioning....... could he actually keep these promises? If so can our marriage survive the infidelity? He is pressing me for a decision on whether or not I will take him back. I don't know what to do. Anyone have any ESH that can help? I feel like my head might explode. I just don't know that I can ever trust him again after all this. But the urge to try to have this new life is strong--I just don't know.
I thought I should add that I have SOOOOOOOO MUCH TROUBLE making major life decisions like this. I basically think myself into paralysis. I feel like I need to know the future to be able to make decisions like this--and we can't ever do that! How can I know whether or not what seems best today will still be best in 5-10 years?
The thoughts that I found helpful in a similar situation were:
- I don't have to make a decision today
- If I was single and starting a new relationship what pace would I want to take it at
- Who would I like to be in this new relationship
- What new things would I need to learn about myself
- What would I be thinking if alcohol had never been part of the equation
- What do I need to restore my self esteem
I think that it is absolutely fine to say that you can't make a decision at this time. More will be revealed as they say. It is great that your husband has stopped drinking for 12 days. It took me a long time to be able to say what I needed, which was basically time, space and a fair bit of wooing. I've found it really difficult to drop my expectations of failure and I think that a relationship between two people needs to be based on positive thoughts for the future. Learning to say no, or not yet or yes because those statements reflected what I wanted and needed rather than because someone else wanted a certain reply is a lesson that I really value, even though it came out of a painful time in my life.
I can understand the pressure of being pressed for a decision, but being pressed to move in a direction that feels uncomfortable and going along with it anyway never did my self esteem much good. I believe that we are absolutely allowed to say that we need a bit more time and, if we feel willing, we can keep an open mind about our future. I used my husband's early sobriety as a time to figure out who I was and what my path was regardless of any relationship that I was in. I figured that I would be a better person to have a relationship with as a result! Sending ((((((hugs))))))
It's been a little while since I posted but I do still read the boards as I work on my own recovery. I asked my AH to leave just over 2 months ago. Like your husband, mine also wants to come back and has promised all sorts of things and appears to have been dry since he left. However (and this is just my own ESH) - I am so much valuing this time alone to work on my own recovery and feel myself growing stronger every day. My AH also presses for a decision, but I am able to say truthfully I don't know and therefore I am not ready to make a decision and my focus right now and for the foreseeable future is on me and the children. He might not like that answer, but that is my truth and if he doesn't like it / doesn't want to wait then that is respectfully his choice. Hugs to you.
Hi, Jayla, I can emphatize although my situation is somewhat different. My ex-abf is still drinking regularly, but seems determined he wants to quit, but still can't. I get that. He has been pressuring me about WHEN I'll come back (I've told him there's no chance of that if he continues to drink, I just can't handle it, I tried, and I don't want to try anymore), IF/when he quits. I recently finally had the guts to tell him fairly that I'll think about getting back together if he quits, no promises, no deadlines. I know that if he stopped drinking today, I wouldn't move back right away, or anytime soon, much as part of me would certainly want that... I echoe others here who say there's really no need to decide yet, it's really ok to decide later. This not-deciding-right-away is a really hard thing for me, but from what I've experienced so far, really worth it. I'm so grateful I didn't succumb to pressure to decide from my ex-abf, this allowed me to arrive to a more healthy decision in my own time. Keep on keeping on, keep sharing... Hugs, (((Jayla)))
(((Jayla))) - I too struggle with decisions and love, love, love what milkwood says......I really thought that fast decision making indicated a 'smarter' person....that came from FOO. Recovery has taught me that there is no clock ticking for most of our choices in life. We can process, mull it over, talk to others, pray about it and anything else helpful to our own process and decide when we are ready.
Know that I'm sending you tons of positive thoughts and prayers. I've seen miracles in recovery and I've seen tragedies is recovery....what I know if I have the most joy when I stay present and lean into this program as best I can. Keep coming back - you are not alone! (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Welcome Jayla...I too was in this situation. One thing I don't understand -- you throwing him out, you moving on...that may have caused him to hit rock bottom? That is something you may want to talk to your sponsor about and something you may want to look at.
OK, so that said, First, as said already, just for today, YOU do not have to make a decision. Period. When I was "in it" and where you are -- I worked with my sponsor, daily, and for me, I had to make sure that someone else didn't pressure me. I had to do what I had to do AND when, on my time-frame, not someone else's. It was my journey. As slow or as long as it took -- no one else could pressure me into going faster. For me, I had to make sure I was free of duress, pressure, influence, etc., from anyone else. I wanted objectivity -- and I got that from my sponsor. Another thing he told me -- 30 days doesn't make a life decision for life (she was sober for 30 days at the time) -- and it doesn't change your last 5 years. I was to wade back into the water -- not jump into the deep end! Even though that's what she wanted. This wasn't about what she wanted. That didn't mean no, it just meant, just for today, it was no and I was not ready to make a decision.
Second, in doing the work and focusing on me, my sponsor and I came to a place where others' pressure, pushing, prodding, behavior, etc. -- that should not impact, taint, or sway me, and what I felt I needed to do for ME. My wife, her family, friends, even my family -- it was my decision. It was my life. As far as when you make a decision -- what is in your best interest, what's healthy for you, all of that is about YOU -- not someone else deciding it for you and deciding when you should or shouldn't, or pressuring you. That's my experience.
Third, and just my experience -- 12 days is the beginning. For me, I looked at who my wife was being. Who did she intend on being. Did she do this and get clean and sober because I left her or because she wanted to -- truly wanted to -- because in my experience, unless she did it because she wanted to, she hit rock bottom on her own, made the decision on her own, had enough...then it wasn't going to stick. It wasn't the desperation I was looking for -- it was the sincere, authentic, real decision, intention, and action to get clean and sober, healthy, and live a life of recovery. That was my experience with her, and I've experienced this with others as well. Everyone? No. But in my experience it is common. I thought I would be ready in 30 days. I wasn't. I waited. That was me and my situation. I made my decision when I was reaDY -- and when that day came, I knew I was ready. I knew it.
Remember, this is just me. It's my experience, my recovery, my work...and it worked for me. That doesn't make it right for anyone else. This, and a lot more, allowed me to arrive at a point in time where I could make a decision. I was happy with the decision I made -- regardless of how it worked out. And today, I feel happier and healthier than I ever have.
You are on the right track. You are focused on YOU. Keep doing that. Don't stray or get distracted. Live, one day at a time. Just for today. Be patient and gentle with yourself. Keep doing the work on YOU.
All the best
-- Edited by Bo on Monday 24th of July 2017 11:46:37 AM
-- Edited by Bo on Monday 24th of July 2017 11:47:09 AM
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Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
are you asking us if you should trust your alcoholic to keep his promises?? believe me, my friend, the answer is in you. re-read your old posts. you have the ability to respond to your heart. get quiet and listen to your heart. if loyalty and trust and love and honesty are what you desire... give it to yourself first. promise those things to your heart. i have every confidence in you ((hugs))
Aloha (((Jayla))) good on you for working this out and bringing it to the family I too finally got it after listening to "One Day at a Time, Easy Does it, Let Go and Let God and all the other applicable slogans of the program. Sitting in the rooms and taking notes also helped and I am seeing more of that locally as Al-Anoners strive to make the program work for themselves also.
You will decide this....in time and hopefully with acceptance on a daily basis and as I learned if the decision later didn't fit...change it. I did that with the help of the Al-Anon tools and became a winner in recovery. I came to understand that the tentativeness of my journey was because it was so new and so different and therefore right on in its "herky jerky way". The notice is "We are not perfect so part of the work was about accepting the mistakes I made and the ones I was afraid I was going to make". Part of my journey was a sitcom made especially for my HP and sponsor. I learned how to think and say "OOOps I made a mistake" and/or "I mean't to do such or such and did something else...no biggee!!!
Choose/plan how you want a thing to come out and follow the plan...don't buy guarantees. always keep coming back. ((((Hugs))))
Hi Jayla., welcome to MIP.....I cannot tell you what to do...Adultery would be a deal breaker for me, for me that would be non negotiable, due to the trust bond that was broken and for me it would not be repairable..Trust to me is the hallmark of a good, healthy relationship but that is just ME and MY take only...
but some folks CAN get past it and actually reconcile and forgive, but you don't forget, but forgive and reconcile, I've seen folks do it and succeed..I've seen it go the other way, too, where the injured spouse just can't get past that offense......what their recipe was, that I recall, was #1, the A had to get into AA and work a strong program for a couple of years...#2, he would be kind of on probation , PROVE it , SHOW you've changed b4 you come back home AND the wife is in Al-anon herself (I am referring to the experience of a former close female friend who had this happen to her, only they had no children) ...12 days is not very long...I am glad he addressed it with you, but on the same token, NOBODY wants to lose their home and access to their children and many times, they will say anything, get on their knees , even and make promises, to get back into their house.....
not saying this is your crystal ball prediction, but I , IF I were contemplating working this out, would want WAY more proof and time and effort and amends and changes, etc...this is what my friends who had this happen to them told me....they demanded AA and LOTS of time to show the offender has truly changed...
I do hope what you decide is a blessing for you...This is a rough situation to be in, Alcoholics can be very charming and articulate, especially when they are on the bad end of the stick that they created
If I were you...I would do NOTHING until I had at least 3-6 months of Al-anon meetings, get a sponsor to help you with the steps (believe it--his drinking has impacted you) I would work the program for all its worth and NO major decisions until I have had enough recovery under my belt to do what is best for me and for my children who deserve a safe and happy and harmonious home life....
I wish you the absolute best in this situation...So glad you reached out here...Others , I am sure, will weigh in with their experiences, but the ultimate decision is up to you...No matter what you do or not do, you got support here...Just remember that your life is YOURS to live and I guess its times like this that you really really want to lean on the program and your higher power because working program and asking for higher power guidance won't lead you astray....Whatever you decide, some folks will agree...some wont'....But this is your life and your right to do what is best for you...............IN SUPPORT.........
Faith101 - welcome to MIP - glad you found us and joined right in! Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery!!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Hello Jayla, It is ok to say no or that you need more time. One thing I love about being in recovery, is that I no longer allow people to pressure me or make me feel uncomfortable because I am not on the same page as them. When I am uncomfortable making a decision it usually means that either it is wrong for me to do or that I am not ready to decide. I try not to surround myself with people that put me in those positions. If someone loves you they want what is best for you. Alcoholics that hit rock bottom are scared and they hang on to what is familiar because it makes them feel safe. Sometimes that is the very person that they have caused the most harm too. I really hope you find a peaceful solution and keep looking to your higher power and fellow members of Alanon.
-- Edited by shrnp on Monday 24th of July 2017 09:31:05 PM
Thank you all for the ESH. I have read them all several times to digest everything. I made a pros and cons list the night I posted this in an attempt to make the decision clear. And it still wasn't clear. So when I read all of your ESH and talked to some trusted friends and got feedback that confirmed for me what I actually WANTED to do--which is WAIT to make that decision. If he decides my waiting means that he decides he no longer wants to make the changes and get back with me then so be it. He keeps saying "I told you I'll do A B & C....." but all of his previous promises have been lies. So it's really hard to believe anything he says. So it makes me really reluctant to just give into his pressure and jump back in with him. Since I decided to wait I have felt much more peaceful than when I was frantically trying to decide.
Way to process Jayla - just keep trusting the process....you're doing great!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I give you an atta girl as well because in the middle of turmoil is not the time to make any kind of decisions. If he is committed to his recovery .. 2 hours, 2 days, or 2 weeks doesn't undo all of the bad behavior. The timeline is about you not him. If he's pressuring you that is a red flag.
Time sometimes takes time and it is ok to wait and figure out what do YOU want. Why do you want it and so on .. none of these things have to be answered this second. I don't know. I want to wait. No. Yes. these are all complete sentences and this is about you and what you want .. not about what HE wants .. yes I'm sure it would be easier for him to have you say yes .. however that is not where you are at .. that is ok.
Keep coming back and I really hope you are upping your meetings and taking care of you!!!
More will be revealed ..
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I feel like I need to know the future to be able to make decisions like this
would be nice right? if we were meant to know, we'd be able to. It's just as it should be. I only need to know this moment what it is my heart desires (more peace?) And then believe it is okay to give it to myself. this is how Al-Anon defined "responsibility" for me, as "the ability to respond" in the best interests of my heart.
I always thought I needed to trust HIM. I believed if I could trust him, all would be well. How we argued over this for years and years.
Eventually I learned it was ME who was not trustworthy. I was the one failing to "listen" to his actions. I was not accepting reality. I was the one not protecting my heart because I wanted what I wanted... my helpless wishes.... so powerless to get it outside of myself.
I am very familiar with the pressuring "hurry hurry, quick quick" tactic. it is a method of control. If he truly intends to amend things, I believe you will surely know, just as you know what it's like to hold an exquisite flower in your hand....... you do not crush it.
Countless al-anon meetings kept me strong when I was tempted to do the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. Your restraint is fabulous and reminds me of this quote,
"Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished."
(((big hugs)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 25th of July 2017 05:33:53 PM
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 25th of July 2017 05:34:58 PM
Fantastic post and responses and so glad you brought it here and are trusting in your own inner self and on the Alanon philosophy. If in doubt then dont. I go with that one a lot. I love the responses you have been given and you will do exactly what you need to and get exactly what you need to get out of it.
I always thought I needed to trust HIM. I believed if I could trust him, all would be well. How we argued over this for years and years.
Eventually I learned it was ME who was not trustworthy. I was the one failing to "listen" to his actions. I was not accepting reality. I was the one not protecting my heart because I wanted what I wanted... my helpless wishes.... so powerless to get it outside of myself.
Thank you 2HP for that light bulb moment for me. I am reading all over the place today that I cannot put the blame on others when I fail to honor myself and trust my own instincts and decisions. Especially if that decision is to sit still and wait and see, becuase I know more will be revealed. I see today that I am my own responsibility, and as much as I would like things to be different and fit more perfectly in to my ideal, it is what it is and I must daily recommit myself to acceptance of life on life's terms.
Thank you for starting this post Jayla, and all who contributed. It was a fantastic example of ESH.
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Bethany
"Folks are usually about as happy as they make their minds up to be." Abe Lincoln
So I told him I needed to wait to make this decision. During the course of the conversation he said an interesting and I think--telling--thing. He said "well if you're not going to come back to me then why do I have to quit drinking?" He said he'll probably start drinking again in a couple months. And....tonight I saw him buy a huge box of beers (for his friends he says). I said nothing. It's not my life. But I KNOW from the bottom of my heart if he's drinking I would never be with him again. I want NO PART OF THAT LIFE ANYMORE. This seems to tell me I made the right decision. That he is not serious about recovery but was only going dry to try to win me back. Thank you everyone for your input. Feel free to add more. It's been so helpful!
Hugs Jayla .. you keep doing you .. more will be revealed and that is a good thing. If he finds recovery good for him .. you are important and you deserve to be happy regardless if he is drinking or not.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I'm with Serenity - just keep doing you. I believe we all deserve to be happy, joyous and free. For me, that was not available until I embraced recovery and now that I've been there, I do not wish to return to how it was before. It took me a while to realize and accept that what others do is not about me at all - it's about them. (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Does that feel like a relief Jayla? I'm with the others - keep focused on you and what feels good and right for you. This is your time! . Sending (((((hugs))))))
So my answer to AH was to WAIT until more was revealed. And more was revealed last night. He went to the bar. He drunk called me and admitted drinking. He stopped drinking for about 2 1/2 weeks. So that makes my decision a done deal. I'm not returning to the life of sitting at home alone waiting for him to come home from drinking and cheating. I am sad today because my marriage is over but I feel now that i made the right decision.
Jayla the Al-Anon meeting rooms and groups and literature and sponsor and more will support you tons instead of you waiting for the alcoholic to remember and then come home. Alcoholism is a very bad and incurable condition. Join the family and bring them into your life as he isn't. Keep coming back (((((hugs)))))
OMG...I think Creator tossed you a BIG clue....."well if your not coming back, why do I have to quit???" OMG, if he said that to ME??? now iwth recovery under my belt, I would SEE the RED FLAG and know!!! He is NOT ready to clean up his act....WOW!!! I am glad you got this "here is where I am at" action from him....and I , too, want to say GOOD GIRL!!!! to you for saying you want to WAIT!!!! Good on you!!!! and YES!! I think you made a great decision to take care of you and pursue that better life that you deserve.....bless your heart.....you're gonna be OK because you are not ignoring the clues dropped in your lap......I am glad this exchange between you and him happened...I knew what he was up to, but I know you had to see it...I've been there and done that....and I know how they play the game.........Blessings
Jayla, I love what Jerry F wrote to you...Bring AL-anon family into your life, as he has made his choice.....in the meetings you will make new and clean friends, who can help and support you and the steps will help you become a strong woman and let the alcoholic walk his path and learn his lessons that he has to learn.....its time for Jayla to shine....IN AL-ANON!!!!! and i too say, Keep coming back........HUGS of support
When my wife said to me -- "well, if you're not going to commit to us getting back together, if you are not going to come back home, then why should I or why do I have to quit drinking?"
That, to me, is not a person who wants to get better. My wife didn't want to get clean and sober. She didn't want it. She was doing it because she had to, didn't want me to file for divorce, didn't want me to leave, and so on. Actions speak louder than words. I had seen and experienced this inauthenticity before. My wife did this before, and after I agreed -- to not leave -- then came on the amazing explanations...first, "it's just a glass of wine" and then came "it's a cocktail party, I can have a drink" and so on and so on. And, these explanations did not come as a result of me saying a word. I just watched -- who was she being. Was her actions congruent with her words. No. Sad, but reality.
I don't judge, but I do look at my own life, and whether or not the alcoholic/addict truly wants to get better. It is up to that person. And my decision is up to me.
Remember, nothing changes if nothing changes.
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Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
Thanks for your words. I did recognize when he said that about why did he have to quit drinking that it was a sign he wasn't serious about getting sober--but rather just using it as a chip to get me back. But I have such a terrible habit of doubting myself that I find it very hard to go with my instincts and make a decision. I always want to see "proof." Well I have seen proof in this situation and it's helping me learn that my instincts can be trusted after all. I have gotten in trouble when I DON'T listen to them. I have been going to F2F meetings for about 2 months now and it is helpful.
Jayla, i doubt me too...it happens...all my life, I'm told I am a screw up, idiot...a-hole.....can't do anything right when i was only a child....yea, it messsed me up and I became a total doubter about me...I even had a "touch" of OCD which is the ULTIMATE doubters disease, where "did i lock the door?? oh you probably forgot...go check it" this mindful exercises I am practicing has REEEELY cut back on the "have to check the doors again" I just tell myself what I am doing, what I see, hear, smell, feel, etc., and I am slooooowly starting to trust me and that goes to instincts as well.....I, too, am sorry when I don't listen to that voice within.......so no worries...you are not alone....having support, confirmation, validation are key to any human, we ALL need confirmation at times.......keep coming back and i love you're going to meets...you will meet better people, healthier ones IF they are working a real program and not just "gaming" but follow your instincts and hang out with the ones you see doing well in the program.....you will do FINE....HUGS of support
For me, arriving at this point (the exact same point where you are) -- it was sad, but it was amazing. My wife said if you won't, why should I...and all that...and it showed me, told me, screamed at me...that she did not want to get better. She was doing it, just to get me back. For me, my health, well-being -- this was not at all good for me. It wasn't that she wasn't serious about getting clean, sober, better, healthy, etc. -- to me, it was that she wasn't going to. She quit to get me back. That is not quitting because she wanted to...she was quitting to get me back and to get what she wanted. Big difference!
Spike up your meetings. Work with your sponsor. Keep doing what you are doing. Focus on YOU. You are doing great. Keep it up.
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Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
(((Jayla))) - so great that you are taking care of you, going to meetings and coming to understand how recovery works. Keep doing what you are doing - it looks good on you and in my case, the more I focused on me and my recovery, the more I trusted my HP, my gut and the program. Thing slowly began to get better, most likely because the program gave me the needed tools to help me stand alone, and realize my emotions, thoughts, responses, etc. did not have to be contingent upon another....keep coming back!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
. Sending (((((hugs))))))