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Thanks to all for the warm welcome I've received here!
Just before I found this site, I was in the process of understanding what detachment was and in the process of trying it - to save my own reality - which I've come to see as more necessary than ever before. Thanks to reading the posts here - I understand more of what it really is.
I do have a question though, that I really need some help with. I won't go into FULL detail here, but suffice it to say that I was unintentionally privy to my 'a's infidelity (and that's putting it mildly - because there are some details about this that are very disturbing to me). Even though we have tried to separate (he keeps pulling me back in and I fall for it EVERY time). These have been for insecurity reasons of my own.
We are living in the same home we own, but since it's a duplex he is on the other side. He has been telling the world he is single, but requesting my presence every time he starts to drink. I have acquiesced. Therefore, suffice it to say - we are not single yet!
After the charade, I was very upset. I told him that I wanted him to move out and get another place, if he was going to do that sort of thing and I would rent out the place he is living in. He apologized profusely and said that he didn't think it would hurt me so much. I think it bothered him more that he was caught in the act. He said that he won't move until he has done much needed renovations, so I am caught between a rock and a hard place.
Sorry - not trying to make this too long, but to get the details in.
Over the years, I have slowly withdrawn from him in most areas, and have not given him all of 'myself' because when trust is gone, it's very hard to trust again (and he's a constant liar). Also - as long as he's been verbally and emotionally abusing me, I have pulled away. He told me that if I start doing all of the things that he wants me to do, he will consider a full reconcilliation, but that not only entails doing his bidding - day and night - and that's not just in the bedroom, but it means keeping the house immaculate at all times - as though the Queen could be dropping by at a moment's notice, as well as accepting the fact that he loves to hunt and come home and describe in detail taking the deer's liver out, while it is still warm and eating it, displaying photos of the 'kill' and just in general the way he thinks of animals as disposable objects (which has been extremely hard for me to accept).
But I thought, okay - perhaps I was being unreasonable by not giving him my 'all' and that could be the reason why he is seeking out other companionship (as he has most emphatically indicated) - so for one week I have 'become' the woman that he wants me to be (all the while - knowing he's on the phone line STILL making plans to meet other women - and him even admitting that he is). I'm doing this as an experiment, while trying to understand detachment, because I'm fully prepared for him to bring someone home again, and I'm ready this time. He keeps saying to me - 'Why didn't you do this before? I never would have looked elsewhere if you had' and that he loves me more than anything in the world and that no one could replace me. HE TELLS ME - that he is still online because he's not sure I will keep up this wonderful appearance of doing his bidding and he's right - no one can look perfect and be perfect 24/7 for anyone! Especially with the proverbial carrot dangling over one's head. But each day - after I've been an angel - I check the system and he's been on after I've left, so my eyes are wide open. It doesn't matter HOW GOOD I have been!
In any case, my question is - as I'm detaching (which I slowly am - and going through some of the 12 steps), how do I keep my feelings at bay? How do I not worry that he will find another woman who WILL be that perfect person? (even in my heart of hearts I know she can't exist) He will be able to find anyone he wants, and they won't know WHO HE IS, until they're well into the relationship, because he's so charming. How can I keep myself from worrying that he will get better when he meets someone who is better than I am or rather as obsessive compulsive as he is, about everything being perfect, and it will seem as though it had been ME (wasting these past 11 years) who was kept him drinking and abusive?
I know this isn't rational thinking, but how can one make detachment easier, when the thoughts and feelings keep going back to the place they shouldn't? I love one part of him immensely, but absolutely despise the other part, and this makes detachment very difficult, but if I don't start working on ME - I won't have ME anymore (that's how sickly I've become)! The sane me doesn't even want him in my life in any capacity, and would be happy for someone to come and 'take him away', but alas - it is not that simple!
Hi, welcome. I've had to deal with infidelity too, and it is very hard to get the trust back, you're right. I think, if I were you, I would work very hard at keeping the focus off of him, and what he wants, and what he will do, and so on, and try to keep it on me. What do *I* want? What would please ME?
A's are very very good at blaming us for their transgressions - if we were perfect, they would not have to drink, not have to stray, not have to hit us or yell at us, and on and on. Of course he blames you, this is what they DO. If he didn't blame you, he would have to face what he has done, and he's not going to do that, before recovery.
Your job is to avoid picking that blame up, when he throws it at you. Just let it lay there, stinking, on the floor. Whenever you feel your thoughts fallling into that irrational trap, grab them and haul them back to whatever YOU are doing. This gets easier with practice. When he is "requesting my presence every time he starts to drink" you can say, "sorry, I have plans" and leave. Yes, you really can! The hardest thing for me to learn was that I didn't have to do what he wanted just because he asked me, and I didn't have to have a big fight, or confrontation, or anything. I could just say "No" and walk away. Start small , take baby steps, keep coming here and to f2f meetings, and you will be amazed at the difference you can make to your life. You don't have to do it all at once, every time you make a stand for your self esteem and self care, it makes the next one easier.
Hey, welcome hadenuff. Glad you are here. All I can say is keep coming back. Come to meetings. Go to outside Alanon meetings. Read all you can about Alanon. Come into the chatroom. There's almost always someone there, and we can talk. Detaching is hard for me too, and most others, I would believe. We are all caught up in the push-me-pull-you of this disease. The merry-go-round that isn't very merry!
I am slowly learning to detach by learning to love myself, and I do that through a lot of time spent in the chatroom, and coming to meetings. I have only been here since Dec. of 2005, but I can feel a difference. It takes time. We did not get this sick overnight, we will not get well overnight, but there is hope.
I have found detachment to be a very tricky thing. And when I put it into affect my a husband became resentful. I also started putting the focus on me and tried to let him do his own thing. He's going to anyway so I didn't want to sit around and wait for him to complete me because he couldn't. So for several years we drifted apart and then became closer only to pull away from each other again. It was very painful to never know what would happen each day.
Last April (4th to be exact!) after a tough weekend (I hated weekends) I was sitting at my desk at work with people buzzing all around me when I realized that I don't want to live like this anymore. That I deserved to be happy. So I put into affect "the free Lisa" plan! I saved money and started to gear up to move out. It took me 6 months and I'm free today from the grips of his alcoholism, well almost! We are still married for now but I live each day to the fullest and I continue to work this program because it works! You didn't say if you've been to any face to face meetings but I strongly suggest you find one or two. Keep looking until you find a group that is suited to you. There are also some great books to help you through each day. I prefer "Courage to Change". It is a daily reader that I took everywhere for the first two years. There is a link right here for you to order them.
Take each day one day at a time. Focus on you, do things you enjoy. And keep comin' back!
One book that really helped me was "Getting Them Sober." It really helped me with detaching and setting boundaries. One of the things Toby Rice Drews says over and over again in her book is to never forget that the addict needs you more than you need him. Even if he leaves, they always come back...if you still want him. Welcome and keep coming back. The best thing we can do is work on ourselves.
Hey believe me, most of us who have a spouce who is A think that. What if I leave and he gets better and finds someone else?
He is still an A. A's still relapse, and for me I know for a fact he is not going to "get better." Alcoholism is not a disease that goes away. We hopefully learn all these things as we see the disease progress. It makes it easier when we get to where we just have to get away from them.
As far as cheating, it is something he would do A or not. It is not a symptom of alcoholism. Neither is abuse. Not all A's abuse and or cheat. All A's are selfish, liars, manipulative and more. This is why a "program" of recovery has to be set in place by A. They learn what normal might look like and do their very best to embrace that way of life on top of not using.
For me cheating would be the complete end. I almost wish my A was a cheater. Would have been so much easier on me to let him go sooner.
I hope you keep coming back. The most important thing we can do for ourselves is really learn to love our self and take care of it.
AS far as pleasing the A....there is NOTHING you can do to do that. The disease lives to pull you down with it and will always find something to blame you for. Don't change a thing about you.
My A would of had me get rid of all my animals, live in a dump, not work, always ask permissiong and blah and blah. Needless to say, my animals are here, my wonderful home is and he isn't. He is homeless and going to jail for drunk driving and still driving drunk.
Thanks everyone - your help is so needed. I haven't actually gone to meetings, but would it be just as helpful to attend the ones here?
I told him this afternoon, that I know he's still on the system looking for women and I'm sick of it and that 'I'll see you later' type thing. I haven't heard from him since, so I'm imagining that he's going to get more agressive about meeting someone else and starting up a new relationship, so he doesn't have to worry about the prospect of losing me!
I can easily see him find someone new, and start a new life without looking back. My problem is that I'm damaged goods now and have NO desire whatsoever of getting involved with anyone but myself. I KNOW I need help, and I'm not going to go out and find someone to fix me, because I know I need to fix me.
What strikes me so funny is that he is so capable of going out to find someone new, when as I see it he is far more damaged than I am. He can walk out there and lie, lie, lie about who he is and how normal and what a nice guy he is. This whole thing has made me look 20 years older and I haven't taken care of myself at all. He still looks like he did 11 years ago, and is going to a tanning booth and wants to find some women to show off his tan to. I'm still trying to pick myself up after all this - just to face the next day. It seems so very unfair!
I am happy, though, that I know I need help and that I intend to help myself. My biggest problem will still remain wondering what he is up to, if I do move on. The other thing I wonder is should I still use the therapy, if I am not planning to go back with him? The point I'm trying to get at is - here I will be trying to get through all of these steps and he'll already have started a new life, not even having faced himself. It just seems so backwards!
To my knowledge, my A was not unfaithful while we were still in a relationship. That was one of my two unmoveable goalpoasts. However, he did push it. I think it's called 'testing the boundaries'. My A didn't openly blame me for his problems or verbally abuse me. However, I do think living with alcoholism mentally and emotionally abused me so having said all this, I still came to wonder if somehow it was my fault; if I had only been more this, that, the other etc maybe things would be different. That thinking was an indicator of how sick I had become. I thought also at the time that my A was incapable of giving anyone affection and attention so when I saw him being a little more attentive than I would have liked to another female I realised this was not the case and that he was, in my opinion, deliberately withholding from me as a means of control and manipulation. Fortunately, My Mum had instilled in me a strong sense of self-worth and self-respect having had hers trampled into oblivion and I was able to make choices I was comfortable with.
You need to know that alcoholism is a progressive illness. It can be arrested but not cured and only if the alcoholic has 'hit their bottom' and truly wants it. You are completely powerless over it. The three C's: you did not cause it, you can't control it and you cannot cure it.
As for him finding someone else, sick people attract sick people so I'm quite sure she won't be 'perfect'. The 'Perfect Human' is yet to be created! A's need a support network to maintain their disease and if you refuse to be a part of the structure propping him up, all power to you! Yes, in some way you are 'damaged goods' but you have the advantage of knowing it and therefore can be made whole and well again. I think you're quite right in avoiding further relationships at this time and to focus on yourself and your recovery. Personally, I would recommend any help you think you may need whether it be the Al-anon fellowhip/program, therapy, counselling etc. I believe that even if we are no longer living with the problem we have still been damaged by it and getting help enables us to clear the wreckage of our past or come to terms with it and gives us understanding so we don't repeat unhealthy patterns in the future. Yes, he may start 'a new life' or it could be just 'a different type of misery'. You need to think about 'quality'. Recovery is about you and for you irrespective of what your A may feel, think, do or say.
The 'isms' of alcohol abuse (I think of it as their I, Self, Me) can often include control, manipulation, emotional blackmail, critcism, blame and the list goes on. They will prey on your insecurities so it's important that you work on these to keep yourself protected. Your mind will wonder what he's up to. Many Al-anons have become as obsessed with our A's as they have with the bottle. That is part of our disease. You do have control over your own mind and can learn to discipline your thinking. Al-anon will help with this. Al-anon is also a safe place where you can process your feelings. I would recommend face to face (f2f) meetings in addition to meetings here if you can possibly attend. Obviously, the chat room, message board and literature are also useful tools of recovery. The more time and effort you put into you, the less time you will have to think about your A... and you're worth it!
You said that he tries to 'pull you back in and you fall for it EVERY time'. I hope you can stay strong and honour your commitment to yourself. I also think it would be a good idea to 'take care of yourself' by having a G.U.M check if you weren't sexually protected during the period of your A's infidelity and follow through with any treatment that may be needed. Also, I believe a healthy partnership is based on unconditional love where you are accepted warts and all. It should not be a contract of behaviours and certainly not all one-sided. Yes, there should be boundaries and there may need to be compromise but to be under a 'threat of punishment' if you don't 'behave' is in my opinion unfair and disrespectful. I say this because I reconciled with my A after he got recovery and we did need some ground-rules. We worked them out together and mutually agreed them.
While I was still with my A I absolutely refused point-blank to sleep with him if he was drunk. As far as I'm concerned it should be an act of love and intimacy between two people and if he was drunk, he wasn't really there. If he had chosen to satisfy his needs elsewhere, I was prepared to live with the consequences and walk away should I find out. Also, as far as I was concerned if my A wanted my 'all' he had to give me his and as he was incapable of that while in the throes of his disease I felt no guilt at keeping a little something of myself back. Please bear in mind this is my experience and we don't judge others for their choices or give direct advice in Al-anon.
Gosh, this has turned into another one of my 'epics'. I'm going to close now but hope you find it helpful. I welcome you to MIP/Al-anon and wish you well. Keep coming back.
Welcome to MIP and thanks for your share. I think there is a difference between detachment and boundaries. They say detach with love ie to be more of an observer. A boundary is to protect yourself and to protect others from you. I think we all wonder if they won't find a prettier, better woman than us and they use this to connect with us and control us. So I think that that is why in Alanon they tell us to focus on ourselves, to love ourselves, and not be doormats. Keep coming back and try f2f meetings.
Welcome to MIP!! This is the best place to vent your feelings safely and read other's experiences that are similiar to yours. What I enjoy about MIP is that I have learned a great deal about how to apply the steps to actual life. I will always be challenged in my life and always in recovery, but its progress not perfection and that is so freeing to me.
I'm sorry you are having to go through this. I myself am healing from my "a's" recent "fling" or whatever it was. He met someone at work and we were in the process of fighting/separating. The girl was a "rescuer/enabler" and pounced when she realized my "a" was single again. He pounced because he wanted someone to talk to, nurture, take care of the pain he was feeling. This is still fresh for me as well, and still painful. My "a" and I have reconciled and he has since broken off the relationship, but I am still nervous and cautious. The hardest part for me is that he told me they were just friends and telling me he wanted to work it out. He admits that he kept me dangling because he wanted to break the news to me in our therapy session. He has since told me that he was done with our relationship, he had not wanted her per se, but she was around and willing to "do stuff" for him.
Detaching is not easy, and setting boundaries is a tough one too. I used to think detaching meant to physically remove myself from someone, I could not grasp Detachment with love, because I was so angry and resentful all the time. I read books on Boundaries, but I felt my "a" busted through those boundaries everytime. My "a" is still using and more so since he left and returned. I still don't like it or understand it, but I have more compassion for the disease and what he is going through. I am beginning to detach with love and separating him from the disease. You can't detach from your pain, you can only sit and feel it and focus on recovery. Some days the pain was so intense for me I could hardly stand it, but HP gives us the extra push we need to go on.
What I learned here from our fellow friends is that it didn't matter who my "a" hooked up with. The new girl could not cure him anymore than I could. She was hearing the one-sided version. My "a" is charming and usually finds enablers. I have put my boundaries in place with him and fully realize that I may have to stand up for myself and enforce those boundaries. Prayer is what is helping me the most, I keep my mouth shut and just give it over to HP. Be good to yourself right now, honor your feelings, because the "a" probably does not have the ability to validate anything you are feeling right now. Keep coming back and take things One Day At A Time.
Big Hugs,
Twinmom~
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"The people who don't mind matter and the people who mind, don't matter". (Dr. Seuss)
I was rereading all of your most helpful replies, because each and every one of you has said something very profound to me.
Something TiredTonite said particularly hit home:
Don't you find it interesting that with all you are giving now, he is still raising the bar and demanding you do this for awhile before he can trust you. This is coming from a man who has been unfaithful. Interesting huh?
Yes - very interesting!
I saw him briefly last night and he said - sit down - I want to talk to you, and I started to say that I didn't have to PROVE anything to him and that it was he who had to prove something to me. He said - oh yes you do and you have - NOW IT'S UP TO ME TO MAKE A DECISION!!! I started to say that it wasn't his decision, and he cut me off and said he didn't want to go into it right now and changed the subject.
I am blown away that he thinks that I am the one who needed to change, but I did allow him to believe it through my experiment. He thinks he's in the driver's seat and that if he picks me over 'other potential women' that I would have to keep up the facade, indefinitely, or he would go back to that!
I know ultimately that he desperately needs me to accept him for who he is, but it's so difficult to accept many of the things he's said and done, especially while under the influence. It's a catch 22 for me though. Let's just say that I were to detach, but still show him love. Let's say that this is what he needs to quit drinking. Let's say that he does eventually quit drinking. Then he doesn't need ME any longer and kicks ME to the curb. Of course he wouldn't want to be with someone whom he'd hurt for so long or someone who knew that side of him. He associates me with his drinking. NO - he'd want to go out and find someone else to start fresh.
I just don't know if I can afford that (even though I wish he really would stop) - especially when he made the threat of finding another woman, a reality. Now there is no stopping what he could or would do, and therefore I don't see any alternative but the end the whole crappy thing before it gets any worse (hard to imagine that it could).
And to Debilyn,
For me cheating would be the complete end. I almost wish my A was a cheater. Would have been so much easier on me to let him go sooner.
I used to say this too. This would be my LAST boundary! I wished for it too, but apparently it wasn't. It empowered me so much that I wouldn't talk to him for a week and kept not taking his calls. I felt so good and so strong for the first time in a REALLY long time. He PLEADED with me, and at one point even said he thought about going to confession, he was so disgusted with himself (which he probaby hasn't done for 30 years). He said it was a fantasy that he NEEDED to make happen and that it was done now! Yes I was suckered in. I had all of my POWER back where it belonged and I was suckered back in. I have to ask myself WHY I allowed that, because now I don't have any healthy boundaries left! The best chance I had - and I blew it. He tested me - to see if I had anything left to be strong about, and in the end I didn't.
I did give my power away (once again), but I'm HERE now and my eyes are wide open, and I'm trying to take the first step. I don't have ANY control over this!
