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Ok so it's not what the subject sounds like. I'm going on vacation and taking the kids out of town for a few days. My AW did not want to go so it's just us. It feels really weird. I know we'll have fun. I know she'll get some peace and quiet. I also know this could be a bad sign and I think it's why I've had a certain level of anxiety this week.
In trying to put a little Al Anon on it I'm keeping in mind that nothing is happening right now. All the negative feelings are coming from me and my vivid imagination. But this is a hard habit to break. I can't "just think about something else." suggestions are welcome.
Then I guess the universe decided this wasn't enough and now an old, very good, friend contacts me. Well used to be very good. I'm not sure what the deal is now. I haven't spoken to him in about 3 or 4 years after he broke off contact with no explanation. I didn't realize anything had changed at first as we would just call each other every couple months or so. Now he's coming into town the day I'm leaving. I let him believe that we're all going and I haven't told my AW that he's going to be around. So, now I just feel weird. I've made this decision and I'm not sure it's right. But I figure she has her plans and I don't want to put it on her to entertain my friend and his family while I'm gone. Especially when I don't even know if we are still friends or what is going on with him.
Hey Westman,
I can relate to feeling uneasy when I do something different like that. I have always had this expectation that vacations especially "Family" vacations mean that everyone has to go and everyone has to LIKE IT lol. Last summer we rented a cottage as we have done for a few years in a row. Looking back I can see my AH wasn't too keen on it but we did it. And my AH came along but he wasn't happy about it and it really put a damper on our vacation. After talking about it later it came out that he didn't want to go but he didn't want to disappoint my daughter and I. Since then I try to make a point of inviting my AH along for things but thank him for being honest when he doesn't want to go and being good about his honesty because in the past I wasn't ok with hearing the truth about not wanting to do something with me. This year no cottage. Instead my daughter and I are flying across the country to spend some time with my best friend and her daughter. It's very weird for me but also a little exciting. When I start focus on what my AH might do or might not do I realize my life is unmanageable. I can't control what happens with him. I can however focus on planning the fun while I am away. My ideal life would be that we all go on vacation together as a happy little family but that's not always possible and not realistic either. So despite a little disappointment and uncertainty in my marriage I plan to enjoy the heck out of my vacation. Oh and I take it all one day at a time :)
Good for you for planning to go anyway even though she didn't want to go. I wish you a fun filled vacation.
Ok so it's not what the subject sounds like. I'm going on vacation and taking the kids out of town for a few days. My AW did not want to go so it's just us. It feels really weird. I know we'll have fun. I know she'll get some peace and quiet. I also know this could be a bad sign and I think it's why I've had a certain level of anxiety this week.
In trying to put a little Al Anon on it I'm keeping in mind that nothing is happening right now. All the negative feelings are coming from me and my vivid imagination. But this is a hard habit to break. I can't "just think about something else." suggestions are welcome.
Then I guess the universe decided this wasn't enough and now an old, very good, friend contacts me. Well used to be very good. I'm not sure what the deal is now. I haven't spoken to him in about 3 or 4 years after he broke off contact with no explanation. I didn't realize anything had changed at first as we would just call each other every couple months or so. Now he's coming into town the day I'm leaving. I let him believe that we're all going and I haven't told my AW that he's going to be around. So, now I just feel weird. I've made this decision and I'm not sure it's right. But I figure she has her plans and I don't want to put it on her to entertain my friend and his family while I'm gone. Especially when I don't even know if we are still friends or what is going on with him.
Why do you also know this could be a bad sign? Why? What's the bad sign?
As far as your thinking -- and you can't "just think about something else" -- well, actually you can. You control your thoughts and thinking. The reason why you can't -- is because you just said and keep saying you can't. You can. Focus and clarity -- laser precision focus on the very next thing in front of you will prove it to you. I don't care if it's folding laundry. Fold it like you've never folded laundry before. Focus on it like you never have before. 60 seconds. You can do it. 60 seconds at a time. Before you know you will have strung together 5 sixty second increments -- and there you have 5 minutes of not thinking about her!
Regarding the friend -- sure, tell the friend the family will be away and that's that. No reason to involve your friend in what's going on, family matters, etc. Don't overcomplicate this. Move on. Go and enjoy your vacation. In the rooms, one of the slogans is KISS. Or Keep it simple. Go do that.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
I hope you have a fantastic time with the kids and leave reality with reality at home .. enjoy the rest and make some great memories.
The conversation of the spin of thoughts has been a topic between myself and a couple of people because of some stuff I'm dealing with, and what I think I have come to the conclusion that I am trying to control things in my head to rewrite the past, present and future. So what I can do to get out of that thought process is just really focus on the present.
Your spouse is going to do what she's going to do .. just like you will. Vacations with my X were not fun .. it was one of those things that he stayed in the hotel room the whole time .. the first time I went without him after we split the kids and I had so much fun.
Big hugs safe journey and enjoy that trip!!
S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
LOL, yes to the universe! I believe it really is in full support, even when it does not appear to be so.
as I read your post, I could recall my sponsor inviting me to "practice" trust.
you can try this too, just practice TRUST again and again (I actually had to remind myself with post-it notes all over the house, lol) TRUST that your plans have been made, that you and your wife have agreed to LIVE AND LET LIVE. TRUST that your friend is visiting at a time when you will actually miss one another and you simply are not meant to get together, not at this time. Be open to the possibility that this is for the good of all.
Regarding your comment, "I cant just think about something else." If I allow my mind (which has been affected by alcoholic insanity) to run my life, I am in serious trouble. They told me the alcoholic had a drinking problem and I had a thinking problem. so
Al-anon, for me, is indeed about controlling my mind. all about substituting my fear and worries with our slogans and serenity prayer, meditation, etc. etc..... all meant to upload new thinking into my brain because my default thinking makes my life completely unmanageable. today, I want peace more than my desire for anything else. so I absolutely do make every attempt to control my thoughts.
Enjoy the heck out of your trip.... like our friend (((KT2015))) more joy, yes yes!!!
I greatly appreciate the advice so far. Yes, controlling the mind is important. Yes, KIS. Yes, enjoy myself and make good memories.
So, if I can just add a wrinkle here. This friend had lived out of state and now lives near where I'm travelling to. I encouraged him to drop his trip to my town and we could meet and catch up there. He is coming anyway but wants to catch up when he goes home as I'll still be there. At that point he'll know my AW is back home. I can make a truthy explanation as to why she's not with us. I can't think of a better option. I'm not going to tell him about all the craziness behind why she isn't with us.
Hey Westman - I can so relate.....the 'what ifs' used to keep me up at night and basically block me often from the joy of now. What I know is my mind and thinking can be my worst 'asset' at times. My sponsor has suggested when my mind wonders away from the here/now, to do what I can to bring it back. Anything - writing, phone call, book, literature - something to bring me right back to now and just do the next right thing.
We say in recovery that we can act our way to right thinking but can not think our way to right acting. So, we can divert the mind with other thoughts but it is in action that we practice new habits which become better ways to do/think/feel.
Speaking for my own situation, my qualifiers could all 'go to any lengths' to sneak, lie, drink, hide it, etc. Me not being here would of course make it easier, but if/when they wanted to relapse, me being here NEVER stopped that. They always found a way. So, as I explored new habits in recovery, I came to realize that even if 'new things' are uncomfortable and make me uneasy, it's about me doing and not them.
We also say in recovery, they are going to do what they are going to do - what are you going to do? Breathe deep and often. Realize as you probably know that our kids grow like weeds - fast and strong. I really wish I found recovery earlier than I did as I feel I missed so many fun things as I was distracted and insane over this disease. Literally do what you can to live in the moment. (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Westman,
Good for you spending quality time with your kids! Make the time about you and them and leave the AW truly at home. We might not know what our futures will be with our partners but our children's futures will always be intertwined with our's.
Shrnp makes a great point. You have the ability to make this a memory for all time with your kids... leave AH truly at home and go make those memories! I think your kids will be forever grateful.
BTW, just tell your friend, my wife couldn't make the trip. Period. End of discussion. Then move on to some "old-time" memory you both share to get his mind from wanting to ask more questions.
__________________
"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
So far the trip is going ok. Little pangs of guilt or sadness here and there. Missing my meetings too. Tried finding something near where we're staying but just hasn't panned out. But the kids and I are having fun. They also wish their mom was here and don't quite understand her reasons for not coming along. But I don't dwell on it. I'm trying to take the sound suggestions I've received. Worry about my own self. Stay present. I think by me living more in the moment it helps the kids too somehow.
So far the trip is going ok. Little pangs of guilt or sadness here and there. Missing my meetings too. Tried finding something near where we're staying but just hasn't panned out. But the kids and I are having fun. They also wish their mom was here and don't quite understand her reasons for not coming along. But I don't dwell on it. I'm trying to take the sound suggestions I've received. Worry about my own self. Stay present. I think by me living more in the moment it helps the kids too somehow.
Yes, be present. Be very present so you can enjoy the moments -- the fun, the kids, the good feelings those moments will bring. Let go of the guilt and sadness and you will get past it. Do your readings as you are missing your meetings. It will help. Perhaps, try an open AA meeting. Next best thing! LOL. You can handle the kids and their not understanding why their mom didn't come on the trip. Take the high road. Enjoy!!!
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
Lately at work YouTube has been my life saver .. I listen to Podcasts of speakers from present and past .. there are some great ones .. it doesn't hurt recovery to listen to others where they were, how they go through it and where they are now. It puts things into perspective and it gives hope that things will get better regardless if the alcoholic is drinking or not drinking .. the subject for me keeps coming back to my powerlessness over other people places and things .. the best thing I can do for my children (one who is already an adult!!) is be present now.
Hugs S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Hey Westman - glad to hear from you and that it's going well! I hear you - it's OK that you all miss her....that's real - but so is the present and cherishing moments as they happen with children is priceless - totally 'best gift ever'.
I'm with Serenity above me - speakers are awesome online - another way to get ESH when we can't get to meetings!!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Great share, thank you WestMan, it reminds me that being present with my sons is my living amends to them. Those present moments with them is an endless gift from HP, it is a truly peaceful experience for us and them. I believe this is because Al-Anon isn't teaching us anything that we didn't already know from long ago. ((hugs)) enjoy your trip :)
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- Carrie
Stress is caused by being 'here' but wanting to be 'there'. Eckhart Tolle
So far the trip is going ok. Little pangs of guilt or sadness here and there. Missing my meetings too. Tried finding something near where we're staying but just hasn't panned out. But the kids and I are having fun. They also wish their mom was here and don't quite understand her reasons for not coming along. But I don't dwell on it. I'm trying to take the sound suggestions I've received. Worry about my own self. Stay present. I think by me living more in the moment it helps the kids too somehow.
hey WestMan..sounds like a good plan you are doing...staying in the moment...taking care of you so you can care for the kids...and ENJOY yourselves....you all deserve....I notice when I am really into the moment, I cannot worry about stuff i cannot control because my mind is too busy enjoying and experiencing the present moment.....your doing a great job.....have FUN with the kids...
Been home for a few days now. I've been bumming around not being very productive until yesterday. Some of it I can chalk up to exhaustion from the trip. But I think a lot of it is just being sad about this situation we find ourselves in. We finally got home and she has little to no interest in me or what I have to say. I don't put out much effort with her anymore and it was foolish to hope that this short little break would change anything.
A couple days after we got back she left to go shopping with a friend. I didn't know how long they would be gone but based on where they were going I figured 3-4 hours at most. 8 hours later she finally gets back home. The kids and I had watched movies and played video games all day. When she got in she asked if that's what we had been doing all day. I told an obviously BS story about working outside all day (I was irritated and feeling pissed off.) I just didn't want to hear her BS about what she thought I should be doing after I had been left with all of the kids, again, with no idea she would be gone so long. She went to check and saw that not a blade of grass or single weed had been touched. She said nothing which I guess might mean something as far as her respective program because there usually would have been some words.
I just don't feel like I have much in me these days. It seems I'm never doing enough, what I am doing isn't good enough, I should be doing something other than what I'm currently doing and so on. When I voice my dissatisfaction with this garbage more of my endless list of flaws get trotted out. I understand that much of my role in this has been in dancing along to try to make her happy and allowing my own happiness to depend on whether I'm successful or not. I have been trying to stop doing this and I guess the paragraph above is one very imperfect way that I tried to not dance along.
I'm still reading How Al-Anon Works. More of my missteps are becoming clearer. I didn't think I was holding a grudge but I am definitely resenting a lot of her behaviors. It runs deep and comes out in ways that aren't so apparent to me. Or it doesn't come out at all except to trip me up and waste my time, and mental and emotional bandwidth. I don't trust her. She's broken my trust so many times. I just don't see how or why I should try anymore.
I'm glad I have Al-Anon. I have much in myself to work on. Just a bit down after coming home to the same issues.
(((Westman))) - I hear you and truly do understand. It took me a while in Al-Anon to find my groove. My kids were a bit older and also 'qualifiers' so I did not have to entertain little ones. It is perfectly OK to take things less than one day at a time - there are days that are broken down into minutes!!
Sending you positive thoughts and prayers!!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Hey Westman
Welcome back from your trip! I can relate to the feeling of coming back and being disappointed that nothing has changed. The longer I'm in my program the less that stuff trips me up. Im able to move on with my own life more easily. You really are doing great. Sounds like you had a fun day with the kids. Take it one day at a time.
It sounds like you are trying to be present anyway. Not all men would spend that much time with their children by themselves. That is a great quality your kids must love you very much.
Westman .. don't beat yourself up .. it's not like you got here over night .. all of this garbage takes a LOT of time to sort through.
One thing I found out in my own recovery is that my behavior did NOT start with my XAH .. I was like that LONG before I met him and he happened to feed a bad seed in me. Those were the issues I had to work on me. Dealing with the resentment I had with my X over some of the things he had put us through was a whole other issue that I didn't come into the relationship with.
That's where I am so grateful for Alanon because I can learn how I want to respond and work on not doing those knee jerk reactions to it all.
It's really a LOT of information to take in and I think people come in gung ho which is awesome .. and hit those dips and back out way to quickly because no one promises recovery is a straight line for anyone. Just keep coming back .. you will get there. It's a life long on going process as life is.
I'm almost ashamed to admit this .. after I got into recovery it has taken me a good 5 years to get present with my kids and I honestly regret that time I missed .. I learned to have moments of being present vs putting so much pressure on myself to constantly be "in the moment" which trust me is GREAT .. however .. if I could give them 15 min here 15 there that was FAR better than I had been doing for the last few years of my kids lives .. I have felt like a horrible mother and I'm the present one.
Those 15 min turn into so much more .. I had to cut myself some slack as I had been so obsessed with my XAH during our marriage I neglected them. Oh they were fed, clothed and so on .. however I was not there even when I was there physically. They both feel very differently now and we have had a lot of conversations about it and I have apologized and change my behavior.
I just encourage you it really will get better .. think of it as trying to loose weight or get in shape .. it's not going to happen tomorrow .. it takes time and work. So just keep up the good work.
Hugs S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Hmmm I agree be gentle with yourself. I can relate to not being present with your kids. I didn't even realize how not present/unpresent? lol I was with my daughter until I came into this program. I noticed how I was so preoccupied with my AH and any other chaos that was going on in my life that I just couldn't be present. I could beat myself up over the time lost with my daughter but it doesn't do me much good. Instead like Serenity said I had to slowly work away at it. I like to plan to do something interactive with my daughter whenever I can. Sometimes it just sitting having a 10 minute conversation with her where I am just focused on her and how she is doing. We play this game at dinner called rose, thorn and bud. We each talk about one good thing about our day (the rose), a bad thing about our day (the thorn) and something we are looking forward to (a bud). It doesn't sound like much and it doesn't take much time but WOW do we get a lot of meaningful conversation out of it. And we often get a good laugh out of what our thorn is. For me giving my daughter some more attention (without obsessing about her) helped with my recovery because it was a way of taking care of myself. Instead of feeling guilty about not giving her enough attention or time I could feel good about something small I did that was engaging for her. It's all about progress not perfection and you are doing great!
Westman,
We can tell you that you have good qualities and that you are trying, but you have to believe them about yourself. I use to have a therapist and she would tell me to make list, and I still do that today when I am feeling down. Make a list of your good personality traits, pros and cons of your relationship, things you are grateful for. Then a few months down the road you can make new list and see what has changed and measure your progress. If you have not made any progress then maybe you can figure out why. I can tell from some of the first post you wrote that you do not appear to be as frantic, maybe I am wrong, but maybe you have been growing in the program and you have not noticed it. I know you have questions about your marriage but none of us can say what is best for you. However, we can help you to stay focused on the things that will still be there if you do not stay together, like your relationship with your kids or less stress at your job, things like that. Sometimes sobriety is not what we thought it would be, our spouses get sober and they are a different person than what we expected. There might be problems that had nothing to do with the alcoholism at all. You just have to work things one day at a time. Don't be afraid to use other resources either, like family counseling. AA and Alanon are great programs but they only cover certain scenarios.
