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Hi there newbie here,
I have been married to a high functioning alcoholic for 10 years. I have never seen him drunk. We have never had an argument. In January he was admitted to the hospital after a seizure. He was eventually diagnosed with alcoholic hepatitis. He nearly died. He is now 60 days sober and I am in shock. He lost his job and I found out he is in massive credit card debt. There is also infidelity. With men. I have lost 10 lbs in the last month and am clearly in some way a codependent.
Has anyone else been totally blindsided like this? I feel like I am living with a total stranger.
welcome, Wednesday. i'm so sorry you're going through such a painful situation.
i've been in my own crisis with my now ex-partner, different kind of thing.
but the commonality - "i feel like i'm living w/ a total stranger"... yes. as i process all that happened over the past few years in my relationship, i am feeling the same way... questioning my perception and judgment and trying to reconcile the different sides of this person i thought i knew so intimately. wrestling with what is the person, and what is the disease.
in al-anon people don't give advice but we share our "experience, strength and hope" and remind each other of the importance of taking care of YOU. i hope you can get to a meeting near you. you will find support among people who have been through all kinds of trials with the addicts they love. i've heard the expression that "civilians" don't understand. and keep coming back here, as well. there is a lot of knowledge, wisdom, and recovery to be had.
Thanks so much Junenine. I am still learning the al anon ropes. I am hoping to attend a face to face meeting in the next week. I so relate to what you said about not being able to trust my own perception. This person I loved and trusted with my whole heart. I have empathy for the pain he must be in but the deception and the devastation he has caused is breaking me emotionally and physically. This is by far the most painful thing I have ever experienced in my life.
Hi wednesday,
Welcome! Alcoholism can be dreadful when someone gets sick. My A ex-bf had hepatitis and almost died too, just five months ago. We were not together but it was still hard. He has been sober since then and the hepatitis is gone now. My ex was not faithful, I considered it part of the disease. He probably would not be faithful sober, but it made me feel good at the time. Alanon can help. I hope things get better, you are not alone.
Thanks for that. Yes the infidelity is obviously a symptom of other unacknowlledged issues. We are in therapy. I am not sure that continuing on is in the cards for us. I have lots of misgivings about the situation. I guess al anon and therapy will help me make sense of what I need to do for my own health and future regardless of what happens to my marriage.
Wednesday,
I'm so sorry for what you brought you here. I am also married to an alcoholic in recovery. I urge you to go to Al-Anon. I think you will find great support there. I hope I'm not being to forward or breaking rules in the forum but I have to ask, have you been to the doctor? Considering the infidelity, taking care of yourself by being tested for any sexually transmitted diseases is very important.
Hugs,
Jaeger
Yes jaeger, I have run a full panel of STD tests and luckily I am ok. But obviously this thing goes way beyond your garden variety infidelity. So much to consider. My emotions are all over. The pain and fear of denial, betrayal, gaslighting, near death experiences, financial infidelity, compulsive lying the list of issues is endless and the vast majority of it has only come to my attention in the last 2 months. My depression, anxiety and anger has been debilitating beyond description. I consider myself a strong woman but this has bright me to my knees and made me question my own sanity. I know it's very early in a long process that involves figuring out the logistics of finance in the face of his unemployment and potential future health issues as his liver will never fully heal. Then there is the personal aspect of infidelity and his hidden life and denial about his sexual orientation. I feel like I am in some sort of horrible Lifetime movie.
Hi there newbie here, I have been married to a high functioning alcoholic for 10 years. I have never seen him drunk. We have never had an argument. In January he was admitted to the hospital after a seizure. He was eventually diagnosed with alcoholic hepatitis. He nearly died. He is now 60 days sober and I am in shock. He lost his job and I found out he is in massive credit card debt. There is also infidelity. With men. I have lost 10 lbs in the last month and am clearly in some way a codependent. Has anyone else been totally blindsided like this? I feel like I am living with a total stranger.
Welcome. You have a lot -- a great deal -- to get a handle on here. There is also a problem here. So, the question is -- do you understand the difference between the two? The problem, is yours, and you said it -- you are clearly in some way co-dependent. You have been blindsided. You feel like you are living with a total stranger. THOSE are your problems. His drinking, his health, him getting better, staying clean and sober, and all of his stuff...those are his issues, his problems. Why are they different? Because you can't solve his problems and he can't solve yours. That is something very important you need to understand.
Now, you also things you have to get a handle on -- infidelity, his drinking, his sobriety, his credit card debt, etc. -- and whether or not you will allow these things to consume you. Sure, they will have an impact. However, you get to decide to what extent.
Start going to face to face al-anon meetings. Find a sponsor. Get to work. You are in the right place.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
Yes I am starting to see the difference. I am from a long line of enablers so I recognize my control freak tendencies. This is going to be very hard for me. But I am going to have to separate the myriad issues into "his" and "mine". Then learn how to let go of the things I have no control over. Giving it up to the HP is going to be very hard on this Atheist control freak but here I go. Thanks for listening.
Welcome, Wednesday. As you have seen from those above me, you are not alone. While I haven't experienced every one of the things you are going through, I have experienced the seizures, hospitalizations, medical complications, deception about drinking ... and I too felt blindsided and at the end of my rope. That is what drove me to my first Al-Anon meeting.
I also am not a "God" person, and felt there was something wrong with asking for help. But when I reached that point of despair from all the trauma that was happening, I was willing to go to any lengths ... even someplace where people use the word "God. " I found out that Higher Power can mean anything that is meaningful to me. Some suggest "Good Orderly Direction." Some say it is the wisdom and experience of others who have gone down this path before. In my understanding, giving it up to a Higher Power simply meant I could not handle it alone ... any more than I could move a big heavy piece of furniture alone ... I would have to accept help, or else I would fail or get hurt. I was amazed at the help that became available to me.
Thanks for your perspective on HP. The heavy furniture analogy makes perfect sense. I certainly am starting to realize what little control I have over this situation. I have to prioritize and learn to trust myself since I obviously have been putting my trust in the wrong person.
Wednesday my heart goes out to you. I can't imagine having that many heavy blows to your life in such a short period. I might be able to offer some insights from another perspective. I'm a bisexual man in a monogamous heterosexual marriage. My wife is my primary qualifier for Al Anon....First, and I'm sure you've already heard this but I'll still say it, his sexuality and infidelity has absolutely nothing to do with you. While it's not a disease the Three C's still apply here. You didn't Cause it, you can't Control it and you can't Cure it. May be better to say "can't Change it".... I appreciate your sympathy for his pain. Even as far as the world has progressed most of us in the LGBT community have experienced lack of acceptance, hate or abuse. Often we ourselves are the worst abusers. Too many will drink, drug or sex themselves to death trying to stop the pain. I suggest proceeding with caution.....Dealing with an actively alcoholic loved one may be a matter of years before they can get it under control. They might never recover at all. But you have the added layers of infidelity, possible homosexuality, and extremely unsafe behavior putting you at serious risk of disease. Any one of those things could be an insurmountable obstacle....while my heart breaks for him I also know that you can't save him....there are some other online resources but I'm not sure if I can post those here. Can anyone tell us whether links to outside sites are permitted?
Yes I am starting to see the difference. I am from a long line of enablers so I recognize my control freak tendencies. This is going to be very hard for me. But I am going to have to separate the myriad issues into "his" and "mine". Then learn how to let go of the things I have no control over. Giving it up to the HP is going to be very hard on this Atheist control freak but here I go. Thanks for listening.
Two things -- co-dependency and HP/God. First, forget about the long line of enablers. Stop living with reasons why you have done these things and that you are doing it. Don't justify it. Change it. Just focus on you and stop. You control you, not the long line of enablers. Second, on the HP/God thing -- they are two different things. You will hear people and literature say things like "my HP who I chose to call God" or "God, as we understood him" and so on. Meaning -- this is up to you. This is a spiritual program -- not a religious one.
Here's another perspective -- why not view your HP simply as something or someone other than you. Something or someone more experienced than you, more seasoned that you, smarter than you, etc. Why not view the group of people who are in the al-anon meeting with you as your HP. They can provide experience, wisdom, insight, perspective, guidance, and more -- all things you can't do or provide to yourself. That's a HP.
Go to face to face meetings. The answers, the solutions, are there. Keep coming back.
-- Edited by Bo on Saturday 3rd of June 2017 06:29:13 AM
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
Wow, that is a lot to have to take in in one fell swoop, I'm not at all surprised you're feeling it physically as well as emotionally. I dropped two dress sizes at one point, and when it didn't look like stopping it scared me into taking care of myself - eating pasta and lovely cakes amongst other things. I rested when I needed to, I distracted myself with kittens and lovely outings, I learnt a bit of meditation and yoga and I went back to painting, something that I hadn't done since I was a teenager.
When I felt anger I celebrated it - I was feeling something other than numb and I figured that smiles would follow the tears eventually. The anger tornado inside me died down slowly and one day I woke up with a sleepy smile for the day ahead - which felt surprising and simply delightful!
Your listing of what you've been through is amazing, it took me years to be able to name those things, so I don't question your sanity, quite the opposite in fact, although I can understand why it might feel crazy sometimes. Under the circumstances I think we are allowed to throw a few loopy moments if we need to.
Having been through my own bit of trauma one thing that I am truly thankful for is learning to trust myself - I remember one day looking down at my feet and thinking 'yes, I am standing on my own two feet and I trust them to carry me forward.' I would not give up that lesson for all the tea in china and sometimes I wonder if the fates just needed to give my stubborn head an extra tough graduation to get that self-belief drummed into me!
Be gentle with yourself, give yourself time, I found that I had to remind myself not to make 'figuring things out' a full time job which was why I resolved to spoil myself with something beautiful every single day until it became my habit to do that. ((((Hugs)))))
Oh my you guys are great! It feels so good to let it out and talk to people who understand. Bo your advice about a HP makes sense. I will try to adjust my perspective on this. I certainly need to focus on something either than my need to control that which I cannot.
Westman I so welcome your input. As a bisexual with experience with addiction. I am so confused about everything. My AH is sober but I fear that part of the issue could be denial of self. As for focusing on myself, yes I am working on that. Spending some time with friends. Also spending time with my pets. I am so appreciative of all your kind words and support.
Hello Wednesday and welcome to MIP.....I am glad that you found us and shared and are finding support! Rarely will you find another in recovery that came with the exact same 'issues' yet we all have very similar feelings/reactions to the disease - low self-esteem, low self-worth, beat down, angry, hurt, despair, loneliness, etc. The disease is called a family disease for a reason - rarely is one unaffected when they live with or love an alcoholic.
With all the 'love' that you feel from MIP, can you imagine how Al-Anon meetings are? I was super frightened to attend, and yet when I did with an open mind, I found live people who shared their ESH (Experience, Strength & Hope) with me so I could see a way to heal/deal with this disease and it's affects.
We are not a group that gives advice and we all work recovery at our own pace. We all use the same tools (steps, meetings, literature, slogans, sponsors, etc.) in a manner to support our life and situation. The first meeting I attended, I heard the three C(s) - I didn't cause it, I can't control it and I can't cure it - as Westman states above. These three small concepts were a game changer for me - I really thought something I was doing or something I did caused it, and I had spent countless time/energy trying to control it, people, etc. as well as cure it. I could not grasp the idea that working on me would improve 'things' and yet - I did it and life got tons better.
Life got better because I got better. My thinking got clearer, my sanity returned and I realized that I did not have the power to change anything about anyone....I stopped stirring the pot, trying to fix/control others and just worked on me and I was amazed at how differently I see things now.
Nothing he has done or will do is about you - it's really about him. You are not alone and there is hope and help in recovery! Keep coming back!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thank you so much Iamhere! Your words mean so much to me. I have found a local meeting and plan to attend Monday. I am also in therapy. I have slowly come out of the fog of shock I have been in the past two months. Food has started to have taste again. I was very close to starting some sort of antidepressant but I didn't want to. I am thinking a bit clearer. I am relieved that I feel physically more able to get out of bed. I am far from happy but at least I am not the walking basket case I was a few weeks ago.
I guess what I am struggling with is not necessarily that I think I caused any of this but I think it is much more me trying to manage and control it. With all the deception I have been dealt I just don't know what to believe anymore. I hate to let go of my trust but at this point I don't trust anything. Including myself. I hope the meetings can help me start to feel like happy self again.
Wednesday - so glad that you found a meeting - sending positive thoughts and prayers that you find support, help and hope there! If it doesn't 'feel right' for you, try some others - I had to go to a few to find a 'home'....
Each and every tool we are introduced to in recovery helps me each day when my mind wonders away from the here and now. I have a lovely sponsor, and when I used to call her full of fear and uncertainty, she would calmly bring me back to the right here and right now. I have practiced that for years and it is so very true - in this moment, on this day as I type this message, I am OK and safe. I say this often and it does help to bring me back to what is going on with me instead of what I project will happen.
We often discuss in recovery that the only way to heal/deal with a crisis is through it. This is true for me - it is perfectly OK that for now, you've lost your trust. The reality is the disease has affected you greatly in many ways and yet - you are upright, reaching out for help and seeking joy and peace. That's a great place to be on this Sunday in June!
Be gentle with you. If you can, when your mind wonders, use the Serenity Prayer or another slogan and try to just stay present. I do believe in my heart that my HP wants me to be happy, joyous and free - peaceful and joyful. My 'go-to' for my anxiety is, "Bless Them, Change Me."
You got this - one day at a time!!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thanks for that. Yes the one day at a time here and now concept. It is going to be a process. I am a major projector. I view stability and control as being one in the same. Obviously my intellect and emotions are not in any way aligned. I suppose the best way to do this is one small bite at a time. Working on me is a brand new concept but there certainly is plenty of work to be done. I hope my ultimate takeaway from this tragic circumstance is a keakthier sense of self. I need to believe that good can come out of this.
On the right side, there is a More which has a dropdown.....I believe the Edit Post will allow you to edit...Hope that helps!! One day/one moment at a time!!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Ok thanks. I am using my phone so I don't see the "more" option. Oh well. The important thing is I got the point of what I am saying across. Thanks so much for your help.
So yesterday my husband broke down and said that he was scared and he loves me and doesn't want to lose me. It was the first time I saw real emotion from him. It was actually encouraging and I was never so happy to see someone so upset.
I could see real fear in his eyes. He has been more focused on going to meetings and he is looking for jobs as well.
This by no means solves all my problems but at least it's a start.
Hey Wednesday - I giggled a little as I can so relate to the 'I was never so happy to see someone so upset." I've been there and can so relate - I almost reached up and slapped myself for being excited by pain in another, yet I knew deep down that that fear and awareness in another might be a step for change in them wanting help.
At times like this, I had to remind myself often to stay on my own side of the street and try to keep my focus on me and my own recovery. I was one who could easily jump back into the fray just like a dog with a bone --- and then got upset when things did not go the way I thought they should.
Keep looking for what is positive and trust the process! Sending you (((hugs))), positive thoughts and prayers!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thank you Iamhere. I need to keep in mind that I have to work on me and let him go through his own process. While I am happy about his breakthrough of emotion I realize there is a long road ahead and we both have lots of work to do. It's also hard to not just dive into the idea that everything will be ok because he's acting more like himself now. I have to remember that everything has changed and we cannot go back to the past. I mourn my old life still.
Wednesday it's good that you're trying to keep some perspective. Focusing on your recovery is smart. I would imagine you probably feel like you need some major questions answered. In my experience those questions aren't easily answered and it is totally possible for the LGBT partner to have ignored this part of themselves for so long that they might not even know what their sexuality actually is.... I'm new to Al Anon but what I think it can do for you is let you detach with love. This may give your AH some breathing space along with the support he needs to figure this out without you giving up on your own needs.....I'm glad you had some relief with him opening up. Again I just would suggest you continue to be cautious and focus on your recovery and well being.
Oh.....I can so understand the mourning of what was. I also remember how my brain had me convinced that life would never be 'the same' and it was so, so difficult to have hope. The meetings and others in recovery helped me to get through this and to consider that things may even be 'better' than before. That was not the way my thinking patterns happened so I had to 'act as if' until I believed there is a great chance that the best is yet to come!
Changed attitudes do aid recovery. I did not get this and thought it was kind of hokey when I first heard it, but it's proven to be true for me and my recovery. For every negative pattern that pops into my brain, I can almost hear my sponsor flipping it completely around. Why me? Why not you?
One day at a time, that's all we need to consider. I am grateful today to realize I don't have all the answers and may never. And - it's OK, just for today!
(((Hugs)))
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thanks to both of you. I do find the "acting as if" idea kind of hokey but at this point I am willing to try anything. If it works then let me at it!
Westman, I agree that I need to detach to a certain extent in order for him to get to a point where he can be honest and find the answers for himself. We are in counseling together so I would be lying if I said I was fully detached. I want to see if he can be open about these issues but am willing to step back if he needs more time to get his head around it. I honestly had no idea there was such a wide spectrum of sexuality. Very confusing. I am trying to learn a lot.
Westman, I agree that I need to detach to a certain extent in order for him to get to a point where he can be honest and find the answers for himself. We are in counseling together so I would be lying if I said I was fully detached. I want to see if he can be open about these issues but am willing to step back if he needs more time to get his head around it. I honestly had no idea there was such a wide spectrum of sexuality. Very confusing. I am trying to learn a lot.
I think I have about five minutes more Al-Anon experience than you so I still haven't figured out the detaching with love piece either. But, I don't think going to counseling together doesn't mean you aren't detaching.
In my case with my AW I know she feels pressured or stifled by me sometimes. I'm realizing that I may be seeking something from her, affection, honesty, sympathy, acceptance or understanding. Whatever it is she just isn't there and can't give that, so I get hurt. I may be asking too much.
If I were to complain to a friend I could probably get my hurt feelings validated and continue with my same "justified" attitude and the resulting resentment. I would get confirmation that she is wrong. Al-Anon, I think, is telling me that I'm making myself miserable because I keep repeating this pattern and thus continue getting the same result. I think my answer is detaching with love. It doesn't mean I can't spend time with her but I'm having to let go of this need to get 'whatever it is' from her. It's tough because I'm having to figure out a different way to be when I'm around her and I'm not there yet.
On the subject of sexuality The spectrum does get confusing even for us in the LGBT community. A lot of us feel it gets a tad bit ridiculous how many variations and terms there are. It can get to a point where it really makes people crazy as they try to work out their orientation. And after hiding it or lying about it to our closest loved ones this confusion may have the same appearance as lying/hiding.People want straightforward answers and the LGBT person might actually not have them. It's a crappy position when you want to be honest but are still confused as to the answer. People usually don't understand how you can not know but it is very very common.
-- Edited by WestMan on Monday 12th of June 2017 12:17:20 PM
Westman you have some stumbling blocks to recovery that many of us do not...you have an alcoholic and you have other people with other orientations along with yours that increase the confusion if I am getting that right. I hated being in that situation and was in it for a while until I screamed UNCLE!! and just quit...made the decision, bucked up the courage and just quit all of the "maybes", "what ifs" and other stuff that was causing me to look for the light at the end of the TUNA rather than the tunnel. In time I got it after doing the work and learning also how to "Act as if" in the mean time that I got it. It was an act that became a reality and I love that HP allowed me to arrive at it here. My life took on balance and I became "good to go"...."now if I could only stop hooking up with alcoholic/addicted women"!!
With acting as if I do the best I can with what I know and with what the elders taught me in response to my asking "How do you do this". "If I duplicate what they do I will get what they have gotten" is true...I did get what the old timers had and you can't imagine how many blessings and miracles are involved. "The light at the end of the tunnel Jerry F....NOT THE TUNA!!" Keep coming back ((((hugs))))
So yesterday my husband broke down and said that he was scared and he loves me and doesn't want to lose me. It was the first time I saw real emotion from him. It was actually encouraging and I was never so happy to see someone so upset. I could see real fear in his eyes. He has been more focused on going to meetings and he is looking for jobs as well. This by no means solves all my problems but at least it's a start.
Remember, recovery is a journey, not a destination. As it relates to him -- it's a journey over time, one day at a time, and progressing in recovery. What does that mean for you, to you? Actions speak, words don't. Let him decide what he is going to DO (not SAY), and then you focus on YOU. Focusing on YOU allows you to get better and get health -- and be OK -- no matter what he says, does, etc.
Keep coming back.
__________________
Bo
Keep coming back...
God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...
