I'm working on boundaries as well. Example - recently my abf imposed the immense importance of lying to his family about his drinking, stating he would be completely screwed if I said anything. To cut it short - he probably wouldn't get finances for some important equipment he needed/wanted. Well, I didn't call his family but finally got so sick about this lie (and enabling - since my lies would enable him to not experience consequences) I told the family. I was prepared to get diched and blamed a betrayer, since I knew the equipment was really important to him. You know what - they are still gonna help him with the money, and all I had to endure was being called a liar, which I technically wasn't - I didn't lie to him, I just didn't tell him anything. I don't regret "telling on" him, and wouldn't regret even if we did break up over this. I can't live peacefully and lie to the family about the drinking at the same time. I'm proud for taking care of myself and not continuing to enable, but it was really really hard. I also have a lot of experience with forgetfullness and worse - him making things up about what I've said... I then try to simply remind it was so and so and leave it at that, not try to convince him of my "truth". There's no point as far as I have seen.

Hi Posies...In my experience, there was no doubt that if I continued to handle the challenges of living with an active drinker on my own, using my strategies and strength, I would fail again, as I had for three years before finding AlAnon. I did not get a sniff of sanity until I began using the wisdom and tools of the program every day and give up 'my way'.

When things were particularly challenging, I ramped up my face to face meetings, read more in my AlAnon literature on the topics I was struggling with, more time meditating, and fellowship with program members. This approach never failed to bring me the peace, clarity, and strength to get through it and see where I could make adjustments to improve things going forward.

Hang in there, keep working the program, and keep coming back

Some alcoholics are persistent. I would just not talk about it anymore, and keep doing the things you are doing. Maybe, your actions will sink in eventually. The saying if you give them an inch they will take a mile comes to mind. It is not a conversation where two people can talk to one another.

Thank you all for your ESH. I have indeed gone to F2F meetings. But I have yet to feel comfortable. That is probably why I am on here almost every night. As to my question, Mct54 & HP2, thank you. I will work on saying that I don't want to be here, or I don't want to engage if I believe you've had a drink. And perhaps just mentioning the behavior(s)... saying that the slurring and/or stumbling is impossible for me to watch. Something like that. I think taking the focus off just saying, "i think you've been drinking" will work wonders. I know I don't have to prove to anyone that he is drinking...and now I know how to "handle" his questioning of my boundaries as well.

Sometimes it is hard to stick to your boundaries when those very boundaries make your AH angry.

Peace to you, Aline... you sound like you know parts of my life very well.

My sponsor happens to also be a counselor so ... her suggestions for me are often priceless!!! When my A(s) are upset, angry or spouting off, the fastest way to have them simmer down is to acknowledge their feelings....even if they appear to be misguided or insane, I will say, I am sorry that you are angry or I am sorry that you are hurting. She made me learn compassion as I did not have much for my A(s) when I arrived.

I've also been told that, "Yes", "No" are complete answers. If I say what I mean, mean what I say and don't say it mean, I stop and no longer JADE - Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain. I was the woman with 1000 words, excuses, reasons and justifications for everything I said and did and it was exhausting for me and annoyed them to no end. For me, fewer words, excuses, reasons, etc. have brought about peace much sooner.

It's hard to sit still when someone is pushing your buttons. Yet, I have done this and been able to calmly say, "Are you done now?" and then not say a word. When we change, they must change as arguing, debating, etc. alone is not fun - even for those affected by this disease.

I statements work very well for me. I am doing what I believe is best. I respect that you have a different opinion. I will drive home. I will drive myself. It was suggested that I stop asking questions and instead formulate my plan for me and then state that. I use this even for simple things like dinner - I am cooking hamburgers tonight, and they will be ready at x:xx.

My son was recently released from jail. Believe it or not, the jail gave him back prescription pills that were in his pocket when he was picked up. He had no bottle, no script - loose pills floating around in there....and they returned him. After 3 weeks in jail and full detox, he popped pills that first night.

The next morning, he was nodding off at the counter. He was slurring his words and I knew, without asking, that he was under the influence. I asked one time, to give him an opportunity to share and he lied. I just stood there, considering what if anything I should say and just stated, I don't believe you. I left the room and prayed for the patience to not choke him and boot his butt right out of my house. Trust me when I say, the old me would have pushed, ranted, raved, and badgered him to the point of extreme anger on both sides.

I walked away and we both knew he was dishonest. Yet, I was given the grace and dignity to not engage in the moment and instead let him own his own state of affairs. A few hours later, he did share what happened, and was in tears - I had taken him to a meeting, he had selected a sponsor and he had an interview with an Oxford house (sober living) and yet the temptation of those pills were greater than him in that moment on that evening.

*Sigh* - his choice not mine. His future, not mine. I had to just listen and allow him/God to determine what would happen next. What this experience and each I've had since working the Al-Anon program - when I step out of the way, and allow another to experience their journey/choices, it fairs better for me. I wish they'd not returned the pills, I wish he'd not popped them in his mouth. I wish he'd called someone from the meeting instead. I wish for so many things - yet, I am truly powerless over what anyone else thinks, says, does, does not do. My best response sometimes is no response at all, beyond taking care of me.

(((Hugs))) - you deserve, as we all do, to have a safe, joyful life. I have to keep this in my mind always - yet my happiness can not be attained by beating down another. They too deserve their own path/journey and their own happiness (as they define it). Lean into recovery and allow the process to work for you!!

(((PnP))) - I love where we say, more will be revealed. I can relate to all that you share and recall thinking many of the slogans were silly or not applicable to me. In time, each has had a purpose as I've grown in recovery.

As far as Step 2, the top right has the Step Board. Hotrod (Betty) posts a new step every 2 weeks. You might get some insight into other's shares by doing some reading there....and you can join in at any time with the step you are working on.

I too loved JADE when I heard it. It made me almost stop in my tracks because every statement I made including some form of JADE. I felt that was 'polite' and 'necessary' to explain my thinking about every statement I made. Phew....................what a gift to realize I did not have to do that any longer!

Keep doing what you're doing. Literature helped me tons too when I first started....it kept my brain more focused on putting me first and using the tools, steps, program, etc. You are doing just fine where you are!

Remember that whenever we want to make a change, the person involved will have a "Change back!" reaction.  In the case of alcoholics, they desperately want everyone around them to pretend that their drinking has no effect.  They want everyone to pretend as hard as they can, so they can keep denying it to themselves.  So they start in with the "Change back!" really strongly.  They try to control us by getting angry. 

The good news about this is that all we have to do is not care if they get angry, and we are not controlled.  That is assuming they are not prone to violence.  If they're violent, then we need to figure out how to get away from them.  But I'm assuming your A is not violent, as you didn't mention anything about that.

In my experience, after a while of trying the "Change back!", my A just gave up.  He would try that denial and arguing too. "I'm not drunk!  Why are you always so paranoid?  What's wrong with you?  You should get some help for that paranoia!" 

What I would say is, "I have no idea whether or not you've been drinking.  But when you have the same behaviors, that's enough for me.  I can't be around those behaviors.  It's too much for me.  I just can't do it, I don't have the stamina.  So I have to take the actions to protect myself when I see those behaviors.  That's all there is to it."  And I'd take the actions.

At first he fumed and ranted and accused and guilted and all the rest.  After a couple of weeks he saw that nothing was going to make any difference, I was going to do what I was going to do.  So then I'd say, "You're doing those behaviors again, I can't be around this," and he'd do a bit eye-rolling thing, but he wouldn't get angry or engage with me about it.  So my experience is that it's a matter of showing them what the new reality is.

Eventually I showed him the reality that I wouldn't be around his drinking at all, and we separated.  That is right for some people and not for others.  But my practice in setting  boundaries gave me more confidence that I could follow through with whatever I decided.