Hi Jen, you get to decide when you've had enough, sweetie. I suggest that you do the next most nurturing thing for YOU.

I so relate to the apologies and promises, I wanted to believe them very badly... and so I did. I listened to his words rather than his actions. (ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS) I wanted to believe what I wanted to believe, and so the merry go round continued, round and around and around we went... him doing his thing, and me doing mine... both of us in denial for more than 20 years.

I relate to the guilt trips too but you can fire that travel agent, sweetie because it's not love he's after, its manipulation, an alcoholic needs enablers so he says what he has to say to keep them in place.

Please find real face to face Alanon meetings in your area and grab onto someone's hand there for strength. Living with an alcoholic is too much for most of us. Keep coming back here and applying the Al-Anon ideas, because one day at a time, and you will know exactly what to do to take care of yourself (((hugs)))

p.s. we have a program slogan which you may find helpful regarding your future... "When in doubt, don't."

Jen, I came back to say that it is NOT SELFISH to take care of yourself. Whoever told you that, is a liar.

I believed lies for so long that I stopped knowing what the truth was anymore. I needed the Al-Anon fellowship.

Jen - you aren't alone, though I can relate to the feeling of isolation for sure. If you can, consider attending a local al anon meeting to be around people who just get it. It can be hard with binge drinkers because when they aren't drinking, they can be great. My friends and family just love my AH, he's a charming and intelligent dude when he isn't hammered. He really only ever gets drunk when it's the two of us, so sometimes I wonder if anyone would even believe me.

Then I found this forum and it has been really healing and wonderful to talk to people. I'm also going to start attending real life meetings this week because I realize I can't keep doing this alone.

Ultimately only you can make the call to stay or leave, but try to take the absolute best care of yourself in the mean time. Focus of your healing, this is a traumatic experience but we can get better regardless of our partners addictions or decisions.

MidnightOwl, I completely echo your sentiment about friends and family. His parents do get it to an extent, as he started getting bad when he was 19 so they would experience him like it. His friends are one of the biggest problems though. They too binge drink and his binge drinking is social. His friends encourage, enable, egg him on. So called friends, in my opinion. They have no grasp whatsoever what it's like and I have recently come to blows with his best friend over it, for egging him on in the pub to drink more when he couldn't even stand. I'm at the point of considering to say he can't go out. I have never been that person to try and control what another does but at this point, I'm considering for my own wellbeing and for the wellbeing of our relationship to ask him not to go out for a few months and focus on us. I don't think he will though, which is very sad. It breaks my heart too, to know that if he wants to lead a life with me he will probably have to cut these people, life long friends, out - at least until (if) they ever stop their own drinking behaviour. It also leaves me incredibly angry to know that the one I love, who is a kind, sensitive and sweet natured man at his soul, is manipulated and used for entertainment in such a way, with such a lack of care for his health. My own friends and family don't know what is happening. My friends questioned his drinking in the early stages of our relationship when they would see him out - they now don't see him out anymore so I find myself lieing to my own friends. They wouldn't even judge, it's just the lack of understanding. I will definitely attend a session as even this, being able to type and speak on a forum to those who just get it, is so helpful.

Sounds lile he already is an alcoholic. In AA we do not distinguish between daily versus not. An alcoholic is generally a person that cannot stop once they start. Not saying this to depress you. It's just the reality.

Also...I know it's a turn of speech, but he is not your "other half." You are a whole and complete person on your own.

When is enough enough? For me, it was when it became less scary to leave than to stay and envision it lasting longer.

Hi Jen

Sounds like a tough situation.

Best advice is to read about binge drinking / alcoholism ... but the best advice is to get to a face-to-face meeting ...

Hi Jt0506 ~ Sorry to hear of everything you are going through. I'd like to tell you about my ESH to offer you some hope.

When my ex ABF ended things between us a few weeks ago after detoxing again for at least the 4th time in the past year I was devastated. And my anxiety, worry and fears were through the roof! Just seeing his truck driving down the street brought rage and sadness and tears to the surface. We had been together 8 years and I had believed everything he had told me about us and our relationship. I was constantly checking my phone in hopes of a text or phone call from him. And when I would have a weak moment and text him to see how he was doing I would get a one word answer or no reply at all. I should of expected this since this has happened before. The majority of the time when an alcoholic goes through detox and start working their program they are told that they need to not be in a relationship for at least a year to focus on their sobriety- the exception is if they are already married. Anyway last week I made the decision to get a new cell number that ex ABF doesn't know about. I gave that cell number to all my friends and family. Within hours the anxiety had left my body. I'm not constantly checking my phone just to be disappointed that he hasn't text or called (since he doesn't have my new number there will be not texts or calls from him) and I'm no longer tempted to text him to see how he is doing because to text him would then give him access to my new number and to be honest I am really enjoying this freedom from cell phone activity from him. By doing this I have been able to focus on all the hell he and his alcoholism put me and our relationship through. I know how this is going to work - as they saying goes "Past behavior predicts future behavior" - he will work his program for awhile and then he will get lonely and try to get ahold of me and want to give us another chance and blah, blah, blah and then he will start up drinking again and treat me like s**t until he decides to dump me again so he can focus on his "sobriety".

I kept the sim card that is associated with my old phone number and maybe after a few months I will put it in my phone and see if he has tried to make contact with me but until then I am not available to him. During this break from him and the insanity of his alcoholism I am focusing on me....and I am weighing the good times with the bad times.....I'm learning what I will tolerate from a man I'm involved with and what I won't. I'm realizing the only person I really need in my life is me, my family, my true friends and my pups to be happy. The emotional roller-coaster that an alcoholic puts those they love through is insane, uncaring, selfish and cold-hearted. I refuse to tolerate that type of behavior from anyone anymore. I'm worth more than that and I deserve better than that.

Anyway that's my ESH. I hope someway it can help you.....I wish you the best in the decisions you are going to have to make for yourself to bring peace and sanity back into your life! I have faith in you that you will do what is best for you and your situation!

geems wrote:

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Good Morning (((jojo))). That was inspiring! Thanks for your commitment to the process of recovery and your courage to share your feelings and ESH too. It's scary but somehow comforting to know that when I read your story I could be reading my own! Hope you have a great day dear!!

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 Thank you Geems!  I'm glad I could inspire you somehow.  

It's amazing how one small action as changing your cell phone number can bring so much peace to your life.  My anxiety levels were so high I was seriously worried I was going to have a heart attack.  I'm only 50 years old but I know people who have had heart attacks and died way younger than that!  

I feel like I'm back in control of my life and this situation (as it should be---it is my life after-all --not his)  I feel like he is no longer controlling this relationship.  I feel strong and certain of my decision.  And like I said this all happened in a matter of hours after changing my cell number.  Even my friends who know me and know what is going on have commented on what a better mood I'm in and how I don't look stressed out anymore.  (I wear my emotions on my sleeve and my face tells it all)  

And yes this could be your story ---- all you have to do is take the first step.....

And yes I will have a GREAT day because I put a stop to the chaos!!!!  

Thank you ((jojo)) for that. I sometimes wish but ultimately know I'm not able to do that, not yet. He is such a good person away from the drink, he loves me so unconditionally (for I am not without faults) that I can never just label him selfish. He is selfish in his drinking, but at the same time I know I'm potentially the only person who can help give him the motivation to stop - a belief even his parents share. How can I walk away from the man I love knowing he would only get worse? If I were to leave it would be in the hope he would clean his act up, not for a clean break and not to move on. I do believe he can change, I believe he is not yet deep enough to be unable to change.

I read that back and feel like I'm defending him but it is how I feel right now. I can't imagine life without him.

I sometimes selfishly wish he just drunk all the time (I'm so sorry if that is insensitive to someone else experiencing this with their loved one) - I just simply mean I would more easily walk away if he were his drunk self all the time and not one or two nights or every couple of weeks. The bingeing means I mostly have the loving, loyal, devoted man I could see as my husband and the father of my children. But he has to give up the drink in order to become one of those things, and he is well aware his time is now very limited in making a change.

I admire your strength and courage to do that and it's amazing to hear how freeing it has been for you. I didn't mean you were suggesting to walk away, more that I wish I could have that mind frame you shared. I wish I could cut, walk away, move on, but my heart just won't let me. I think sometimes we so often give them more than they deserve, frankly. You gave eight years, I have given six, when will it be enough. I won't reach 7 years that's for sure, if this continues. This is either a turning point in our relationship or the end of it. 

 

Thank you you so much, it's wonderful to finally feel so much support and understanding (no doubt from all sides of the world) and it gives me strength as I'm sure it does us all here.

The only person to motivate him to stop will be him. I promise. I am sorry his parents are telling you things that run counter to the nature of alcoholism and recovery. He has to get worse before better. Currently, it seems the suffering he experiences isn't bad enough to make him really want to stop. His sinking lower can and will happen with or without you. There are a billion rehabs, therapists, and AA meetings out there....THAT is where he will get the help he needs and likely it will come to him accepting that. People stay drunk and relapsing not because they dont have girlfriends/wives. They refuse help and think they can do it alone or fool you into thinking you are the reason they drink or don't drink. Don't try and be his savior. Go to alanon. Work on you. He has a higher power looking out for him. It isn't you.

For me, Al-Anon and my own recovery lead me to a time where I KNEW it was enough and time to end it. No one can tell you when enough is enough, well, they try don't they? Eventually I reached a point where I could unemotionally assess where I was, what and where he was, my powerlessness to change what and where he was, and what I really COULD do to resolve my life.

pinkchip wrote:

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Yes jojo :) It makes me seem blunt here sometimes but doing battle with someone else's wretched alcoholism is such a harmful process and it is like trying to pet a porcupine.

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 I think it is very beneficial for others to hear the truth from someone that use to be an active alcoholic in regards to how the alcoholics mind actually works.  If I would of found a recovering alcoholic to talk to that would of pointed out to me what was really going on in my relationship last year at this time when my ex ABF got out of treatment it would of really opened my eyes.  But instead I didn't know about this site then so I just cried and cried and cried to all my friends that had never experienced alcoholism and all they could do was console me and tell me what an a**hole he was.  LOL.  I'm surprised any of those friends are still even a part of my life after how stupid I continued to be taking him back time and time and time again.  I'm sure they wanted to kill me!  LOL.  They are true friends to put up with me through all that!  

It is possible. You guys are young. My drinking was similar to your boyfriend's when I was in my mid to late twenties. I never drank round the clock and always had a job but it did progress to during the week. I was waiting for just 1 major event to occur and it did. I totaled my car drunk at 36 and that is when I got sober.

Anything is possible...especially if he decides from deep within that he is going to lose it all if he keeps this up. He also has to be able to do a seriously honest assessment of the way he drinks. Normal drinkers do not get all sloppy drunk like he does and they don't do it every weekend. I thought it was normal and that since I could go some time without, that I was fine. Nope. I always drank to get trashed and pass out and, the older I got, the worse it got. Normal people, if they ever get that wasted can probably count thw times it has happened on 1 hand and they are over it completely by mid 20s.

For him to truly get sober it will take a major awakening. He is not like most his friends. He drinks more destructively. Even if some of them are like him, that just means they are probably alcoholics too. Someone who is an alcoholic and is sober now has a better shot of opening his eyes a bit. He wont get it from you or his parents.

Pinkchip, I cannot begin to put into words how much that helped.

That is him, down to a tee. It is also everything I have ever felt, yet ended up feeling as if I am just a bit too 'strict' or 'dislike alcohol' or 'different to him'. To have you say to me it is indeed a slippery slope, that it is already too much, that it is an issue, is like being validated for the way I've felt for years. I will beat myself up because it is unfortunately a growing culture, to drink like this, one which I have never personally bought into as much as others - albeit I have of course been drunk too. But like you said, I can count that on one hand. I asked him if he could count in this past year alone, and he could not.

There is something very valuable in being able to say 'it's not just me who thinks this' especially from an individual who's been there, done that.

I admire your strength and thank you for sharing that with me, I can only hope he can wake up before it's too late. As you said, that is up to him and no one else.

I'm starting personal training tomorrow and going to a meeting Wednesday, with the plan to take back some of my life again. To feel me again. I have realised this weekend just how big a part his alcoholism has to play in my ever decreasing self esteem and motivation in life, which I guess I've known all along, but I'm finally able to admit. It's very hard to admit your partner is partly to blame for your own crappy sense of wellbeing.

tired of it wrote:

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Hi Jen---i could have written pretty much everything you said in your post......especially the part where you said you wish he drank all the time because then it would be easier to leave him.  I am married to a binge alcoholic.  He can be sober for months at a time and ghen drunk for days to weeks at a time.  When he is sober, he is a wonderful, dependable, loving husband.  When he is binging, he is undependable and drunk.  I am fortunate that he isn't mean or abusive in any way when drunk (except when I used to get angry and try to control his drinking.)  I have thought many times about leaving.....then he sobers up and everything is fine again.  But when he is on a binge, I am the one who cleans up his pee and whatever other messes he makes.  I have said many, many times "I will leave when the next binge starts" but I am still here.  Things have gotten easier since I started practicing some of the alanon steps.  But it is still hard.  It is frustrating.  It is confusing.  There are many times I have wished I had gotten out as soon as the first binge started.  As my name says, I am tired of it.  But, I made a commitment and I love my AH so here I am 7 years later.

That doesn't help you at all other than for you to know that you are not alone in what you are going through.  I know how you are feeling as I have gone through and continue to go through the same crap.  Cherish the sober times and know that the binges will end eventually.  

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 Hi Tired of It ~  I can truly understand why people that are in marriages with A's have trouble leaving the situation.  Like you said you made a commitment and I do believe that the majority of people in the world work very hard to honor their word especially in the part of the marriage vows that states "in sickness and in health".  Also when two people are in a marriage most of the time they have both worked very hard together to achieve everything they have - a home, vehicles, children, friends etc.  Everything is legally tied among  two people.  And to make the choice to divide all that up would mean starting all over again like you were single and in your 20's - having to get apartments, not being able to buy nice things for yourself, living week to week and paycheck to paycheck, having the friends that you had together take sides.  That does not sound appealing at all!  As a matter of fact it sounds very scary and stressful! And then there is still the love that one feels towards the other person.  It's rare that divorce is a mutual decision.  

When I read the posts on here from spouses of A's I realize how "lucky" I was to not have any legal or financial ties to my ex ABF.  I was stressed out enough just dealing with his alcoholism and I didn't even live with him.  To of been married to him most likely would of sent me over the edge.  I don't have to leave my house to get away from him and find some peace.  I can be in my home and be away from him. My home can be my serene, peaceful place.  

I just want you to know that I feel for you and everyone else on this board that is married and has to live with the effects of alcoholism day in and day out.  I admire your strength for being able to tolerate it and get through another day of honoring your commitment.  

jojo8466 wrote:

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tired of it wrote:

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Hi Jen---i could have written pretty much everything you said in your post......especially the part where you said you wish he drank all the time because then it would be easier to leave him.  I am married to a binge alcoholic.  He can be sober for months at a time and ghen drunk for days to weeks at a time.  When he is sober, he is a wonderful, dependable, loving husband.  When he is binging, he is undependable and drunk.  I am fortunate that he isn't mean or abusive in any way when drunk (except when I used to get angry and try to control his drinking.)  I have thought many times about leaving.....then he sobers up and everything is fine again.  But when he is on a binge, I am the one who cleans up his pee and whatever other messes he makes.  I have said many, many times "I will leave when the next binge starts" but I am still here.  Things have gotten easier since I started practicing some of the alanon steps.  But it is still hard.  It is frustrating.  It is confusing.  There are many times I have wished I had gotten out as soon as the first binge started.  As my name says, I am tired of it.  But, I made a commitment and I love my AH so here I am 7 years later.

That doesn't help you at all other than for you to know that you are not alone in what you are going through.  I know how you are feeling as I have gone through and continue to go through the same crap.  Cherish the sober times and know that the binges will end eventually.  

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 Hi Tired of It ~  I can truly understand why people that are in marriages with A's have trouble leaving the situation.  Like you said you made a commitment and I do believe that the majority of people in the world work very hard to honor their word especially in the part of the marriage vows that states "in sickness and in health".  Also when two people are in a marriage most of the time they have both worked very hard together to achieve everything they have - a home, vehicles, children, friends etc.  Everything is legally tied among  two people.  And to make the choice to divide all that up would mean starting all over again like you were single and in your 20's - having to get apartments, not being able to buy nice things for yourself, living week to week and paycheck to paycheck, having the friends that you had together take sides.  That does not sound appealing at all!  As a matter of fact it sounds very scary and stressful! And then there is still the love that one feels towards the other person.  It's rare that divorce is a mutual decision.  

When I read the posts on here from spouses of A's I realize how "lucky" I was to not have any legal or financial ties to my ex ABF.  I was stressed out enough just dealing with his alcoholism and I didn't even live with him.  To of been married to him most likely would of sent me over the edge.  I don't have to leave my house to get away from him and find some peace.  I can be in my home and be away from him. My home can be my serene, peaceful place.  

I just want you to know that I feel for you and everyone else on this board that is married and has to live with the effects of alcoholism day in and day out.  I admire your strength for being able to tolerate it and get through another day of honoring your commitment.  

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 Thanks Jojo!

I'm really sorry for what you're going through.  My heart goes out to you.   Remember, whatever you decide to do, it should be what's BEST for you.  What do you deserve?  What would you want for someone you love?  Love yourself first, and put yourself first!

Jen-- I don't think I ever game my AH an ultimatum.  I have said to myself that I would leave a bunch of times but never to him.  I have gone to a hotel for a night a couple times but that is it.  I think I haven't given him an ultimatum because I know that it wouldn't matter.  He may want to never drink again and may say he never will, but we all know that you can't say never when it comes to alcoholism.  My AH has stopped promising to quit forever because he knows he can't promise that.  He can try but really that is all.  Honestly, I prefer him to promise because I think it makes him try harder.  I don't know.  I honestly don't know if I would be better off on my own or not.  That is a decision I can only make and a decision only you can make.