The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
My AH has been sober for 6 months and I am feeling more and more lost. Our marriage has been great and honestly it was pretty good before he decided to get sober. He calls himself a "high bottom drunk" and there was never any type of consequence because of his drinking, he just decided that he was done with it one day. He asks me to go with him to open AA meetings sometimes and will go along. It has really put into perspective what he is going through. I know that its technically ok that I am there since the meetings are open but I am the only spouse that we have ever run into. The old timers are always shocked that I am his first wife and that I am supportive of his recovery. Some of the men he has become friends with ask if I am in Al Anon and I am starting to feel like its expected of me. I dont believe myself to be codependent, I was never trying to control his drinking and I honestly I had no idea how bad it had gotten. I worked days and at the time he was working nights, we rarely saw each other. He never cheated, was never abusive and there were never any money issues because of it. I have been reading and listening to everything on I can get my hands on and the message is all the same, marriages stand the best chance when both spouses work their own programs. Neither of us understand how working something that is so personal and causes so much change can be worked privately and not have it cause issues in your marriage. Am I missing the point? Is going to meetings with him enabling? since he will go with or without me? I have been to two f2f Al Anon meetings and I just feel so out of place. I dont know if its because I always knew I couldnt control him and never tried to or is this is a common thing when people start going to Al Anon? I just want to know that I am doing everything in my power since I want to stay married.
Knit - Just wanted to say hello and that you're heard. I don't have any super similar experience - except maybe that my ex-A was also very high functioning, and it took many years for his using, and more so, just bad addict behavior - to bother me enough to start my attempts to manipulate and control. I'm sure someone else will be along who can provide more relevant insight for you. Good luck!
Hi Knit, I think it's great that you go to open AA meetings with your husband. Gaining an understanding and empathy for the alcoholic, I found, was really helpful to my recovering process. It has made it easier for me to let go of resentments.
I might suggest giving Al-Anon meetings another chance. I never considered myself "codependent," but I was going crazy in other ways. I've found the Alanon approach helps me in so many areas of life. Learning that we can't control others is part of the program ... but by no means all of it. There is much more.
I have seen two spouses come to an Alanon meeting together, and one of the spouses is a "double winner," meaning they are qualified for both programs. My hunch is that most if not all alcoholics also qualify for Alanon, due to the hereditary nature of the disease. They probably have been affected by someone else's drinking as well as their own. So I would not view having your own program as keeping something private from your spouse. I would view it as more like, you go off on your own to take a cooking class and then come home and cook amazing meals for him ... and it makes your lives together even better. Or maybe you both take the class together and each cook part of the amazing meals. That's what I think Alanon can do for a relationship.
I feel more effected by his sobriety then I ever did his drinking. It has adjusted our dynamic at home but the more he starts to recover the more he is spreading his wings and taking things over. That isn't really the problem, its been so great, I have a partner again. He started drinking heavily at 18 and I know that parts of him are still 18 because of it. When I go to AA I identify with a lot of what is said, I made a ton of poor choices in my early 20s but I dont have the allergy, so I dont truly belong there. Then with Al Anon my story is SOOOO different then the others that I feel like I am just whining. My story has no heart break, law enforcement, or fights. We only ever fought one time about his drinking and that was years ago. I went to a co-ed meeting first and felt really out of place so I tried a woman's only meeting. The woman who was next to me had just miscarried because her ABF threw her down the stairs, I couldn't bring myself to share after that. I just dont know where I fit and am struggling with this new social dynamic we have. I know who I am and am strong and confident but this has me feeling like I am back in middle school and all I want to do is fit in somewhere. When he was drinking I knew who we were as a couple in public settings, but now I dont know who we are as a couple and thats beyond frustrating because I have never felt better about my marriage.
THANK YOU for posting this! I literally searched "al anon" after AH and I JUST tonight finished a debate on whether or not it was "for me". He believes it is, and I disagree. How strange (I know, I know..) that I come to this link as one of the first 3 I click on, and your post appeared shortly after.
You have written my story, you see. Almost exactly my story. Right down to the "parts of him are still 18".
My AH has been sober through AA for almost three years now, and I adore it for the person it has made him into. I am so grateful to have my partner again. The one who's decisions and thought process I don't have to second guess. I don't have horror stories. I dont feel I was ever codependent. There was never a question that I would support him fully in recovery, and I've also accompanied him to many open meetings upon request. He's had several requests to speak and I am also there to hear his story when he tells it too. I learn something each and every time, but quite frankly, it's about him and his disease. I feel I am on the outside of that, and that's completely ok. I don't mind. I am empathetic, and supportive, but in truth - it doesn't directly affect me, other than to gain insight into his "alcoholic mind" and way of thinking that again, I feel like I was already well aware and enlightened to before he ever even entered AA.
I don't fit in, and I don't feel the need to. I don't share any addictive tendencies, it is not my illness. At this moment if I feel anything, it's slightly "weary" - of the last three years being all encompassing with AA daily meetings, and life centering around him. First it was his drinking, now it's his recovery.
Life and marriage is so much better than it has been for so many years. I have an equal again, and the man I married is back. Why do I need al anon? Am I missing something here?
I think when we are in denial we can look for the differences and be a bit closed off to the similarities we hear at meetings. I resisted going to alanon and embracing the help because I felt different. I have to be honest but I felt a bit superior to those who went because I believed I still had this, I still had answers, I didnt need help or suggestions and there was no way I could look for similarities in the experiences shared by others. I even believed that alanon was the last resort and was mostly for those who had failed and It took me a long time to surrender my own power which to be honest I never had.
Your husband has a life threatening disease that he has judged a problem enough to reach out and get help. If you have a look on this forum, use the search thing above, look and see how rare that actually is. You may be one of the lucky ones.
You believe there was nothing wrong to begin with and to me this is where your problem lies. You dont suffer from many of the symptoms you have heard at the meetings you have been to. No control, fixing, manipulation, martyr, victim roles, resentment, self pity etc. these are the common symptoms and maybe you are unique or special or maybe you arent ready to look within yourself and find out how alcoholism has effected you. I personally cannot believe anyone gets away scott free from this disease, no way. Its a powerful, progressive disease that distorts our thinking. As for codependency, ive never really understood that as a stand alone term to be honest. I was obsessed with the drinker in my life, is that codependency? I dont know. I look at myself as a person affected by alcoholism in all aspects of my life and behaviour and choices. Labels can confuse and seperate me from others and I like to think we are all in this together with many shared symptoms but they arent always easy to hear. It takes a chink in our armour to let any of it in and using labels to say well Im not that or this often is a sypmtom in itself. Keep coming back, glad your here.
-- Edited by el-cee on Thursday 28th of July 2016 04:28:01 AM
Lots of people ask that question, 'am I missing something?' The answer is yes. You are and until your ready, if ever, you will remain closed. I feel like the lucky one because living with an alcoholic brought me to my knees and only then could I open up enough to hear what I needed to hear. My life changed drastically for the better. Ive got spirituality in my life and Im so grateful for it.
I found listening for the similarities at Al-anon helped rather than looking out for differences. My marriage hasn't had violence, police involvement, no money etc either. But AH alcoholism still affects us as a couple.
Welcome Alcoholism is a chronic, progressive, fatal disease that can be arrested but never cured. When i entered alanon, many years ago, I felt much the same and said many of the same words..
A seasoned member took me aside and reminded me that it is a progressive disease and i may not have experienced" some of the pain" of the disease "YET" but that I could still attend, keep an open mind and I would find help.
She noted that I was human and not "terminally unique" and that since alcoholism is 3 fold disease that affects the physical, emotional and spiritual nature. I could benefit from a program of recovery of my own. Correctly, she noted that I may had become accustomed to living with the disease and unknowingly adjusted my attitudes accordingly. I lived in a world of pretend and denial and needed to be able to learn new ways of interacting. Since hubby was growing and changing my program would compliment his and we could grow together and that is exactly what happened.
I must note many of my family members refused to see the value of alanon and do not attend . I consider myself the fortunate one. I learned how to identify and not compare. Keep coming back.
Knit - I urge you to consider the last line of your last post - that you've never been happier in your marriage. I won't project my speculations about that statement, but will tell you that most of what you wrote prior seems to contradict it. The very nature of you being on this site may even contradict it. I know it's confusing and scary. Just something to consider.
Welcome knit - I was one who saw your first post and had crafted a long response to it! When I hit enter, your post had gone 'poof'!!! I am glad you returned - and am glad you are asking.
I actually saved that post hoping you would come back!!
Welcome to MIP - glad you found us and glad you shared. I am a double-winner and that means belong to both sides of the program. I can say that I often see spouses/significant others at open meetings. That is perfectly find and everyone is welcome. Attending closed meetings in my area would be frowned upon in my area, unless you have a desire to stop drinking. That is the ONLY requirement for membership. You don't have to be a high, low or medium bottom drunk - just have a desire to stop drinking.
So - that's what I can share about that part of your post.
As far as not relating to Al-Anon, I went at one point and was not ready. Therefore, I unintentionally looked for the differences instead of the similarities. I did not want to be there, I did not want to have to work on me and I certainly did not want to hear that my qualifier was going to recover or not no matter what I said, did, acted like or other. So I went to 2 meetings, and decided it wasn't for me.
I went back a few years later badly in need of support. I will not go into details but suffice it to say, in my experience being around the disease affects us more than we even know - and wanting to avoid that or think I am smarter, stronger, braver or whatever did not save me from me. I was co-dependent. I was controlling, I manipulated people and situations trying to make them conform to my way, I was happy to mother my qualifiers and did all kinds of co-dependent things so 'they could get well.'
Alcoholism is a disease that is powerful, progressive and considered a family disease for a reason. Nobody but you can decide if you are affected or not and nobody but you can determine if Al-Anon is for you or not. What you did post, and I've seen over and over again is one in a relationship works on recovery and the other does not. That has never worked well in my observations. Perhaps your meetings weren't for you - I suggest you try others. Perhaps you didn't have an open mind - I suggest you try others.
Both programs are about personal recovery from the affects of alcoholism. His discussions about the meetings, the messages, etc. are better suited with a sponsor - one with long-term sobriety than a wife. These are just my thoughts - you can be the best wife in the entire world, but if his disease comes knocking, you are not equipped to talk him back from that drink. A sponsor who has no emotional ties will have a better chance.
Read around here, keep exploring Al-Anon and any other support group you feel might help you out - just try to keep an open mind. Most alcoholics and al-anons that I know are extremely intelligent and were logical thinkers at one time. This disease has a way of coming in, balking in the face of logic and knocking the wind out of any of us without any warning. I learned more about healthy relationships, healthy boundaries, detaching with love, nurturing my own soul and living a peaceful life in spite of what others are/are not doing in Al-Anon than I ever did in my reasonably normal FOO (family of origin) or in any schooling attended.
We don't go to recovery on either side of the table for anyone but ourselves in the beginning. We keep going to keep our sanity and serenity in check. We still go after years and years to help others who come in new. Recovery is a life-long process and the disease is never healed - we get a daily reprieve only. So, go for you, not for him or the marriage - just for you if you decide to go. I first went wanting them to help me with my qualifier(s). When they told me it was about working on me, I was almost angry as I thought I had no problems/issues. I found out later I was dead wrong....
Good luck with your processing - keep coming back and asking - we don't share advice, just experience, strength & hope in the hopes others will find peace and joy in their life - no matter what another is/is not doing.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thank you everyone, you have made me feel far more welcome than the f2f groups have. It was really no fault of their own, I tend to be introverted and I am better with words on a page than I am speaking. I have always believed that people are put in front of you because they have some lesson to teach you and that your only job is to be open to the idea. I think that is why I am here. So many people have placed the idea of Al Anon in my path that I know I am meant to learn something from it, I don't believe in coincidence, not anymore. I have heard that living with addiction/an addict could be compared to boiling frogs. If you try to put them in already boiling water the frog will jump out but if you put it in while the water is still cold then it will be too late by the time they realize the water is boiling. I suppose I am searching for ways to tell the water is getting too hot before it is too late or maybe I am already in boiling water and don't know it yet.
((el-cee)) I have no doubt that I am one of the lucky ones whose AH sought help and that he did so BEFORE it completely got out of control. However, I cannot just sit back and relax either, considering myself lucky is setting myself up to be blind sided. While I have faith that today is going to be a good day I do not know what tomorrow will hold. I am not special I am just trying to do the best with the cards life has handed me. Part of that is searching for lessons outside of myself, I am attempting to be humble enough to receive the blessings that I know are out there. I thank you for your response and for challenging me with some new things to pray on. The last thing that people should do is surround themselves with people who just agree with them and I was hoping someone could offer me an alternative view. I kept coming across Al Anon and this message board but I just don't know why yet and if that means my own program or not. How did you finally come to the realization that you needed to seek help? Was it a single wake up call or a series of things? Perhaps I am far too focused looking for a single moment and cant see the forest for the trees.
((calmlady)) His alcoholism has defiantly shaped our marriage and I see that far more now that he isn't drinking. It sounds like we have similar experiences, did it take you awhile to be able to hear those same similarities in others? Sometimes it just makes me feel ridiculous, like I am complaining about it being hot side to someone who lives on the sun. Perspective seems to be far too simple to be why I am being pulled here.
((Jaclyn)) His obsession lifted in April, perhaps its just that pink cloud but these last months have been the best days of our marriage. We have only been married since 2014 so I certainly don't have very many days to compare it to. This is his first try at sobriety, perhaps, God willing, his only go at it but one day at a time, right? When he looks in the mirror he is starting to see the man that I always saw when I looked at him. He will make comments about how amazed that I am still here, that he wouldn't be with him if he were me. He has a very long road ahead of him and we have a very long road ahead to travel together. We are both 28 with dreams of the 2.5 kids and the white picket fence,
((hotrod)) the YET is why I am here. I am not waiting for the other shoe to drop, I do not live in fear of relapse but making sure that I am as solid as possible will allow me to take care of myself if that does happen. His disease is not mine and if he were to slip it does not need to derail my life and happiness as well. I do know that there were things that I did while he was drinking because there was no one else to do them. There was no 'honey do' list it was just my to-do list, so I suppose in that sense I did adjust to living with his disease. After about 50 days sober he sat me down and told me that I didn't have to do it all anymore and to start asking him because he wasn't that same man. It surprised me how easy it was for me to just trust him with things large and small again. My actions and reactions shifted to accommodate this man in front of me, so what you are saying does make sense. I know that we are both still so new to this path and that the road in front of is very long. Marriage, to me, is waking up every morning and choosing to stay married, to love your spouse and to give it 100%. So far I have kept making that choice but only God knows what the future holds.
((Iamhere))) thank you for taking the time to read that novel and respond, it means the world to me. What I have realized is that this program would have served me very well in my teens and early 20s, I am just unsure of how this fits with where I am now. It would have saved me a lot of anger, heartache and lessons learned the hard way.
My husband is on his 2nd sponsor, his first sponsor could have been his twin and I almost laughed when I met him. My AH couldn't see it but no wonder I suppose, since you are so sick at the beginning, of course you would be drawn to the same. His 1st relapsed but it taught my husband a valuable lesson about the disease. His step work is done with his sponsor and that I am NOT involved with, after meetings he will usually tell me what messages he heard and sometimes I will offer what i heard if our take away differed other times he wont and I am fine with either. Last week for example, he was complaining that during meetings (his home group has had a surge of newcomers lately) the new people are never asked to share, that the speaker usually just asks his friends and my AH remembers feeling like an outsider. He complained about this for about for a few days (he goes to 3-4 meetings a week, I usually go to the meeting on Saturday night with him) and his sponsor wants him to set a goal to find a sponsee in August, as he just finished step 12. I asked him if he thought that since he cant change who others call on maybe his HP was trying to show him where he should focus his attention and where he could best be of service. He got all excited, ran to the computer and typed out a 4 page speech and called the secretary asking to chair. When he is personally struggling with an aspect of his sobriety he might tell me after he has worked through it but those conversations are saved for his sponsor and I do not pry. He tends to process things better thinking out loud and the way my "non-alcoholic brain" hears the same things differently fascinates him.
What you said about Mothering and doing all kinds of co-dependent things so that they could get better is one of the big things that I am trying to figure out. Where is the line between being supportive and being co-dependent? Is it subjective to each person or couple? Is one persons supportive another persons co-dependency? Its not that I feel better than or smarter than, I just feel lost. My AH enjoys my level of involvement and is the one who initiates it but I know that we could be so enmeshed that neither of us realizes how unhealthy it is. I just want to make sure I am not going to start sabotaging. Thoughts? Perspective? Experiences?
How co-dependency was defined for me is doing for others that which they can do for themselves. This is as obvious as buying alcohol to keep them quiet/less grumpy to making doctor appointments, suggesting they call their sponsor, getting them up for work, etc.
I don't know if that helps or not, but that's the basic premise for me. It goes a bit deeper in our literature and as I said, only you can decide to work the program or not....others may also have more to share how they 'see' it or use it.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Oh to be 28 again, freshly married, and with all the big dreams still ahead of me. I don't say this to be sarcastic, I really do envy your position.
I look back at pictures of me at 28, with my AH husband, and the most common element, was that I smiled authentically and broadly in all the pictures. I remember the feeling of true bliss.
What that 28 year-old me didn't know at the time was the man who would drink everyday, but stop after a couple of drinks, get up bright and early for his high-powered job, take care of his daughter, would over time would hold onto alcohol as if it was the most precious diamond. I didn't know that for all the wonderful times I had experienced, and could look forward to, there were equally dark and difficult periods, that would be dealt with the same way. By too much drinking by my AH.
As I waited for him to snap out of whatever phase he was in at the time, I put my dreams of having children, building more financial security and living the dream on hold. I just didn't know that alcohol would have such a strong hold on my life.
I knew back then that his relationship with alcohol was a bit unhealthy. There were too many times that I had secretly wondered just how many drinks he might of had, or wondered how he could pick up a drink the day after we had stayed out late with friends partying (I wouldn't want a drink for weeks, months even).
He has given you a gift. He has told you that he is an alcoholic and his life is unmanageable and that he has no control over alcohol. Without intervention, it WILL spin downward, out of control and bring everyone around it and him down with it. You have a chance now to learn tools that can help you survive and thrive, despite what he does or doesn't do.
Our HP gives us signs and messages. You are right, there is no coincidence that you feel compelled to reach out here, or you find yourself hearing about Al-anon over and over again. Most of us had these types of messages or signs, but we were caught in thinking we could fix or control our situations. Take the gift!
