The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I was reading a few blogs recently about love and codependency. I'm finally starting to learn that I can never really 'know' if someone loves me just because they say so or just because they act like they do. But, just because of this, it won't prevent me from risking and falling in love and giving love to my partner. It's just a piece of my codependent puzzle that I must realize: someone would tell me they felt a certain way about me and I would question it constantly. I'd come up with reasons as to why they certainly do NOT feel that way because of how they act or because they forgot to do something they promised.
I used to say things to myself like this all the time: "If he truly loved me, he'd stop spending so much time doing X,Y, and Z", or "If he truly loved me, he'd behave like he did when we first met." I could do this list forever as I'm sure other people can add to, as well. I remember waiting around for months for my current beau to finally say he loved me, of his own accord and not in response to MY declaration of love for him. When he finally did, I felt elated but then I started saying, "Well he just feels bad because he probably realizes he's never said it first so he probably doesn't actually mean it." See, what I'm getting at, LOL?
I know that there is nothing my partner can say to me to prove that he truly loves me. Nothing another person does or says will ever convince me of their love unless I can answer the question: Do I truly love myself?
These are the ways I new I wasn't loving myself:
I was always looking for confirmation and for reassurance. Was I pretty enough? Did I do the job well enough? Am I doing enough so that he won't leave me?
I would also stay busy just to avoid feeling my feelings or avoid situations where I'd be required to open up or be confronted or whatever. I was afraid of emotional intimacy so I got really busy and kept people at arm's length.
I also chased 'things': cars, status symbols, a new therapist who would finally be able to FIX me.....etc
So, whenever I feel discontent with my wonderful boyfriend today: I ask myself if what I'm feeling is legitimate or is it because I'm not loving and accepting myself. I'm learning to fill the voids I have by using my own tools of recovery instead of turning to another person to be my end all be all in life. As painful as this lesson is and has been, I'm so grateful for recovery programs that have taught me how to inspect my stinking thinking and to confront myself BEFORE I make everyone else out to be the bad guys. I hope this has helped someone today on these boards. Love to you all!
__________________
Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
You write what I have done. Me too.
Now I will either take out my AlAnon tools when it doesn't feel like enough good coming my way (from whomever), or I have the sense to realize oh that was a moment of love coming my way. I'm telling you I couldn't even recognize it when it bit me.
And when I recognize love, it's not earth shattering. I pause, thank my hp, and then I finish my sentence.
It is the connection with my hp that sensitizes me to know it now.
Thanks for the topic.
Lots to think about here. I think in my case I tend to ask "Does he really love me?" as a way of asking, "Is what I'm getting enough?" Because most of the relationship I chose were with men who did not have enough to give. I was constantly starving for a real partner because I had picked people whose primary relationship was with alcohol or with something other than me. So it's no wonder that I was anxious about whether they were really there for me. They weren't. I still have to check in with myself and see if my expectations are realistic and if they're being met. So far they're not, but I haven't found a good relationship. When I do, I hope my growth and awareness will be something like yours.
andromeda - great post, great awareness and great topic. I totally get all that you wrote and can't count how many times in my life I've tried to align the words and actions of others towards me....it is only with the Al-Anon program that I stopped and changed it up to how I feel about me. Perhaps it's an age/stage thing, perhaps a recovery thing or even a cause/effect issue with this disease, but I've finally decided that if I want peace and joy, I have to trust my HP to guide me towards those who are healthy, honest and complementary to me.
I stayed in my marriage and it's not perfect. The program has taught me that no marriage or relationship or friendship is. If I am keeping my focus on me and doing the next right thing, I have confidence, peace and joy. I am learning that when I am less than pleased with the actions or words of another, it's because of my values, my expectations and/or my regression on my spiritual journey. I still at times don't say what I mean nicely but I no longer stay silent and do the best I can with what I got.
My husband called me last week, and was upset because the trash did not get picked up at our rental property. I allowed him venting space and then said I would call. He went on and on and then he made it personal and suggested I had caused the issue. So - he went from frustrated to 'disease mode' in short order. What really upset him was the trash had been dumped/knocked over, and critters had gotten in and spread it and he had to pick it up in horrible heat. His reaction to this was hugely out of proportion to the event itself - in my opinion....that's the kicker for me - my values/opinion thought he was being a drama queen. So - that's what I said - Stop acting like a drama queen! Even if he was being a drama queen, it's not my job to point that out, so I had to make amends. I had to let go of his blaming me, understand that he was hot/bothered and make my amends no matter what he does/does not do.
My oldest called today and wanted me to babysit. I did not hear the phone so he called my husband. He came upstairs, and told me my son was looking for me and what he wanted. I looked at him and said, Nope....not me, not today - I am tired beyond belief and he didn't give me enough notice (had dinner in progress). I told him he could go over and do it if he wanted. For the first time ever, he followed my lead and just told our son no can do for tonight. Not sure what all he passed on but my son called back and apologized for the late notice. We talked for a bit - they are having relationship issues and he's not very happy and .... I listened and refrained from advice and just let him 'see' that life is not easy and adulting can be taxing.
These two paragraphs for me explain how love is and how it works. We do our best, we are kind, patient, tolerant and human. Before Al-Anon, both of these would have spoiled a large portion of my day. With the program, the first was actually kind of funny as my husband was so surprised that I called him a drama queen he had no words. The second - my son for the first time said he admired that we were able to stay married for as long as we have in spite of him, his brother and the disease. In recent conversations, he's suggested he's a mess because of us. Now - with 2 children and a fiance, he's beginning to see that life is not easy, but we are do our human best. We get up, we mess up, we right what we can and we move on.
I've written before - love for me is not a feeling. It's a decision to commit. It's a decision to work on issues instead of giving up, walking away or running some days. It's a willingness to accept myself and others exactly as we all are each day and not judge based on my own values. We all have bad moments, we all have fears and insecurities and I forget that often as all 'my guys' are men and they just process so differently.
So - mutual respect + mutual goals + willingness to accept me as I am, some days crazier than others, is love enough for me. The more I like/love me, the more lovable I feel and while that sounds so backwards, it's worked that way for me. We all deserve love, happiness and joy - if you got that most of the time with a few hiccups - I say....WINNING!!!
I will not ever work to be enough for anybody else. I strive to just be enough for me and that's brought me more peace and joy than I have ever had. I will admit that the whole dating scene would be hard for me and I am grateful I'm not in that place/position in my life/stage. If I get there again, I'll deal with it then. I believe you are perfectly human jut as you are - we all are!
Love to all!!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I'd like to add a good question to ask yourself: does my lover/partner treat me the way I want to be treated? Does he/she love me the way I want to be loved..... Linsc
Call me romantic but I kinda take the approach that what they think of me is none of my business, much more these days.
I can relate to your post and Ive felt the same and Ive pondered the idea of love and does he love me, do I love him, a lot. Im like Jekyll and Hyde because the old codependant me still in me comes out at times and I can feel and behave needy, believing his love is the gold at the end of the rainbow and I want it and need it. My behaviour can be crazy at these times, I can switch from people pleaser of the year to starting an argument just to test his reaction, all based on my insanity. I look for evidence of his love in the strangest of places. How long he took to reply to my text!!!! The relationship he has with his family, friends, where am I in the pecking order, well I should be first!!!! His love is never there for me to see at these times and its all in my own head based on my own self esteem. Quite far away from what love is. What Im really looking for at this time is validation of my worth, my status, Im looking for my ego to be fed. Im half child, half women looking for reassurance like a child and then I can hate myself for this. Not quite accepted it yet.
The other side of me when it comes to love is detached, and I dont actually care if he loves me or not, what does it actually matter? He is a lovely guy and his definition of love is complex with a variety of meanings from his own past experiences so his declaration of love isnt something I particularly look for to enhance my life! I am secure in myself to not crave or need it really!! I am powerless and I like it that way as I can take him for who he is in that moment and enjoy him and he can do the same for me. He has a traditional view of love, hes the big alpha male, im the sweet angelic woman, lol!!!!! I am so far from that image. He wants to look after me, romance me etc!!! I enjoy it but is it really love? Lust maybe in the moment, a need within him that I am unable to control. I dont fully and never will understand his motives or needs. For me, its more one day at a time and its different every day. Sometimes Im grounded and I just go with the flow, enjoy the company, the nice times, the romance, its lovely. Other days Its more intense and I can feel deep 'something' maybe called love for him, maybe lust and desire, then I can be needy and childish about it.
Coming to alanon has made me question my old ideas of love and I think its a verb too, its a doing word in a moment and is fleeting and flexible rather than something that is solid and you can touch it kind of thing. I think we can also attach different meanings to it, like habit, comfort, familiar etc and call it love. Maybe it is love, Im not sure. I do know that sometimes love can represent fantasy and make believe for me so I think I have to assess how I feel regularly and keep grounded and not get carried away as if Im in the movies. He is hinting towards a committment of some sort I think but I question his need for that. He wants us to be in each others futures and forward plans. I cant yet, I dont even want to book a holiday next year. Im not sure if there is some fear in me or maybe im living for today much more. I dont know there is still lots still to be revealed. Im enjoying the ride right now but why do we insist rides last forever?
Anyway, thank you for raising this topic, was great to contemplate and make all about me!!!! lol.
El Cee, thank you so much for sharing. I can totally relate. Sometimes I wonder if I even actually KNOW I love my guy. We act loving towards one another, we apologize when we wrong the other person, we comfort each other and take care of each other, we make an effort in the relationship to make sure we spend quality time together without the kids by going out to dinner or having a glass of wine on the back porch while holding up a sign that says, "No kids allowed!" (the kids didn't think it was funny but we sure did, lol), etc. When we argue or disagree, I get my feelings hurt just as I always have, but it's different today because program has taught me that I don't have to take everything so personal and I'm learning to confront the parts of his argument that are hurtful and I can actually speak that truth to him. Doesn't take away the fact that he said it, but at least I've said what I needed to say and I can move on knowing he knows how I felt.
I said something hurtful to him last week and didn't even realize it. I was snarky and sarcastic and I thought it was funny, but he was actually turned off by it and thought I was being unfair. So, the other thing I learned by using program tools is that I'm not perfect(really, I'm not......haha). When my partner hurts me with his words, I know I can say hurtful things as well and I have to remember to ask for forgiveness just as I have to remember to speak my peace if I am hurt. I truly believe that (other than the alcoholism and mental health issues) one of the biggest problems I had in my marriage was with resentment and anger and unmet expectations from unreasonable demands from me. I expected my XAH to love me enough to want to quit drinking. I didn't see that I was expecting him to show up differently than he could actually show up for the family. Once I let go of those expectations and worked the steps through my resentments and anger, I knew that what I had with my XAH was maybe never actually love. Or maybe there was a different kind of love. who knows? Every inspired philosopher throughout history has tried to figure out love and they can't really define it (especially romantic love) so I figure love's definition doesn't need to be definitive to me. Today, it's commitment that matters and honesty and respect and shared values and goals. If I have those things I try no to worry about the words he says or doesn't say. I focus on the commitment we made to each other verbally and the commitment we make to each other through our actions.
I love what everyone shared about love being action, a verb, and not a feeling.
__________________
Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
About twenty years ago I was in a theater watching a movie (a tearjerker). The actress who in the romantic leading role told the actor in the romantic leading role that he "completed her." I remember how so many females in the audience were crying during that scene including myself. Honestly, I'm lol as I type this now. I thank my higher power that four years later I found the Alanon program and feel whole as a person. There's no mission to find another human being to "complete" me. My higher power loves me and I now love myself. That's resulted in serenity and well... I think that might be contagious. I feel very loved by the friends in my life today and feel love for them. I have a loving partner today who I trust does love me and I love him. As far as guarantees for tomorrow? Nothing is promised aside from the love of my higher power. Before Alanon I don't think what I experienced was love. It was a desperate attempt to attach myself to another person because I was fearful that I couldn't take care of myself. That dependency got me here. When we know better, we do better. My life is happy, joyous and free today because of my spirituality today not due to any one person. When I married I believed we would be together all our lives. I blamed the god of my understanding when addiction severed that tie. Where was my happy ending? What seemed like the ultimate crisis then, opened my life to a wealth new understanding concerning myself. I'd been sleeping for years and not known it. Endings can bring blessings. My relationship today is unconditional. We both offered an open invitation to the other to share in our already established lives. We don't need to know every detail about one another to feel we are safe with each other. We trust one another and more importantly we've both been through fire as separate people and trust in ourselves to be ok if our relationship ends tomorrow. I think this has allowed us to breathe easy, have fun and enjoy the present moment. Because demands are minimal, the impulse to give freely has been greater and strengthened our commitment to one another. We love one another and are in love with one another. We're growing in love one day at a time. TT
__________________
Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
I have really meaningful stuff to say on this. But my brain feels fried. Bah. Just trust that I was gonna write something deep as hell that would have made you all cry and it would have been awesome. I loved all your posts guys/gals.
ROFL......that's what we love about you pinkchip. I am sitting here chuckling out loud and needed that for sure!!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene