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Hello everyone:) I'm new and so grateful to find this site! I'm 26 years sober, a double-winner in Al Anon and AA. I'm divorced, with three adult children, all living at home with me now. I definitely have a full plate with them..my oldest daughter, 32, is mentally disabled, my son, 33, just got paroled from prison and starting over, and my youngest daughter, 20, is home from college for the summer. I'm close to my mom and dad who live within an hour of my home. I am financially stable with a job I love and looking forward to having a summer off as I work for a public school. I'm active in service work in AA, have sponsors in both programs and support from both fellowships. My relationship is strong with my H.P. and I've learned many lessons about taking care of me. Without my sobriety I have nothing. I need some feedback with my relationship with my boyfriend, who I reconnected with last November. We have always had strong feelings for each other but our relationship was not successful in the past due to what I thought was his fear of commitment and emotionally and physically unavailable. He also drank alcohol but did not drink around me. When we reconnected after I separated from my husband, my intentions were to be activity partners for outdoor activities, just keeping it light. I was surprised to find he regretted his lack of commitment and apologized for not being available emotionally and physically. He asked to try a relationship again if I still had the same feelings. I still had strong feelings and with his change of heart, I agreed to try a relationship once more. He also said to me if his drinking became a deal breaker he would stop drinking...hmmmm. Of course, I said that would be your choice to stop drinking if you chose. It would not be my decision. However, a flag went up and I should've paid more attention. He knew that I chose not to be around alcohol except light drinking in social situations and he acknowledged this was a boundary for our relationship. I have no issues with light drinking in social situations but feel very uncomfortable around drunks or heavy drinking. I do not have a physical craving..more so, for me, when I feel extreme emotional pain, I have used alcohol and drugs to escape my emotional pain and depression. I have a program and know that I cannot get myself to this place for I know it is possible for me for my disease to kick back in and lead me to pick up.
Over the next four months, things were great. Kevin has a full-time job and makes a decent living. He has family who live near him, his son and his son's girlfriend and their child. Since March, things have not been so good. What I thought in the past was lack of commitment and unavailability was really isolating and drinking. He started making drunk phone calls to me, one which was a black out phone call. Rather than stop his drinking in the evening at the risk he might make a blackout phone call, he opted not to call me at all in the evening. He drove to my house drunk and brought alcohol into my house. His desire to drink with his son at his home would become a priority on more weekends, saying because he couldn't drink around me I couldn't come to his house or be with me on days he would be drinking. Three weeks ago, I stepped back from our relationship stating that his drinking had become a bigger priority than our relationship and I would not continue our relationship with my boundaries being disrespected as they had been. I said I could not be in a relationship with someone for whom alcohol was so much a part of his life and I risked my own sobriety. After I tole him this, he said he would stop drinking rather than lose me. Then he backed off this statement. So I had little contact for about two weeks, during which I got pretty depressed and although I didn't want to pick up a drink, I had some major short-lived depression but worked through it with the help of my sponsor and fellowship. I felt overall filled with hope and ready to move on although I was still sad. Looking at all the blessings in my life, I realized that I had much to be grateful for. I saw Kevin last Monday to return his stereo and he started crying and said he didn't want to live without me and was ready to stop drinking. I stated that again is his choice, not mine. He said he wanted to quit on his own and if he failed he'd go to AA. He asked if I'd consider resuming our relationship. I told him I'd think about it. I agreed to try it once more if he agreed to follow my boundaries regarding alcohol and behaviors that I considered unacceptable and disrespectful. He agreed. So I saw him again the day before yesterday and I'm not feeling the same..I am feeling emotionally distant..I'm afraid to trust him because I have not seen any proof of changes in his life, nor have I seen the presence of drinking..I know it's not my business and yet I think the only way I would know if he were truly sober if he were going to AA. I strongly suspect that he's doing this in order to be with me and not for him. He wants things to go back to the way they were when things were good between us..but I'm not just feeling comfortable and ready to be that close, emotionally and physically..He wants me to come to his house this summer, bring my horses up and stay for weekends or more. I am definitely not ready for this..I'm confused and want to see proof before I invest myself in a close relationship with him. So here is my dilemma..I feel I'm very detached emotionally and not sure if I can be close to this man again. Yet how can I be sure without proof if he doesn't go to AA? I know that I must take care of myself and my HP is key..where is the line between boundaries, self-care and not being controlling? Thank you for letting me share:)
Congratulations on your long term sobriety Moondancer. In reading your posting I sensed a great deal of humility, clarity , honesty and self awareness. I hear acceptance of what is going on and a sincere desire to explore your options in a constructive manner . I would suggest that you search out alanon face to face meetings and attend. Here you will be given different tools to consider and a place to release your concerns, Please keep coming back here as well . There is hope.
Thank you, hotrod, for your reply and your observations:) I actually attend Al Anon meetings weekly and have an Al Anon sponsor..I came into AA through the back door of AlAnon, where I first worked the steps and found my HP. I will continue my meetings and know that I'll find my way with all the tools there:) I know I need to let go and let H.P. and the Serenity prayer is always a help.
Proof. I have had to learn to live without proof. Before Al Anon, I wanted proof that my wife was sober or not. I asked her to take breathalyzer tests. she failed them almost every time, but she started to resent me for it. I noticed that she also came home from AA meetings drunk, not all the time but sometimes. So I gave up on proof. I had to have faith that she would be sober or not. Once I was convinced that she isn't sober, I have boundaries that kick in as well.
So, to be able to give her the dignity she deserves as a fellow human being, whom BTW I love very much, I have had to go on faith. If I get to the point that I don't have faith in her, I will re-evaluate our relationship and whether it makes sense for us to part ways. but that will take a lot, in fact to part ways, for me it would have to be for legal and monetary risks to both of us, not because I don't love her anymore.
If I were starting a new relationship, I don't think I could have that kind of faith. Ours is based on 30 years of knowing each other, 26 years of marriage. Without that base, I am sure I couldn't have enough faith to be able to keep me from wanting to leave the situation.
Great thread, this has made me think about my relationship some more. Hope it helps you too. Keep coming back with more.
Thank you, Kenny. Appreciate your experience, hope and strength. I know that I do have my boundaries to take care of me. I have faith in my program and my H.P. As for faith in our relationship, although I've known him for five years, we haven't been together all those years but off and on. And I see what you are saying about faith and proof. I have faith in that alcoholism is a disease..I know this to be a fact. He will drink or he won't. It is his journey and proof is another form of my trying to control him and would lead to resentment. I think I will need to stay close to my program and my HP and take it a day at a time.
Hi and glad you are here. My experience is that if a person is not actively working AA or another formal recovery program, they will drink. I'm sure you yourself know how strong alcoholism is and how many people don't make it even with a program. In my experience, too, alcoholics believe what they say when they declare they're going to quit and they're determined and they're going to do it all on their own. That's why they can be so convincing, because they believe it themselves. I haven't seen one yet that made it. Good intentions are not enough, or else there would be no AA in existence.
So my experience says your instincts are spot on. You can't trust him because he's not willing to work a program. And as you also no doubt know even better than I do, the first year or two of sobriety are rough, rough on the recovering alcoholic and rough on others. The best time to get involved with a recovering alcoholic is after they've been through the years of tumult and hard work. For us Al-Anoners, though, getting involved even with a recovering alcoholic who has a lot of sobriety is riskier than for regular people. We have a history of people-pleasing and hanging on even when things are terrible and ignoring red flags. So I would be very cautious getting involved even with an alcoholic with some recovery. I know there is a healthy guy out there for you - don't overlook him because you're in the whirlpool of dealing with an alcoholic!
Welcome to MIP Moondancer - glad you found us and glad you decided to share. We can never know the thoughts, actions or deeds of any other person - and that gets even more complicated when this disease is involved. I too have long term sobriety and I have seen it all - newcomers have success that I wasn't so sure about and long time members who return to a drink/relapse. I've seen short and longtime members practice controlled drinking for up to 15-20 years - the disease is cunning, baffling and powerful.
Not all drink without recovery, but the drink is but a symptom. My grandfather was a 'spend the entire paycheck on Friday drinker' and put his family through hell and more. When my grandmother threatened to leave him, he quit - cold turkey - without a formal program of recovery. He went dry for 35+ years, and died that way. However, he was a grumpy person to be around, and kind of scary to me as a child, and while he was not spending the check on his disease any longer, he was miserable to live with (so my grandma said).
So, armed with the information that we can't know more about any other person than what they share/tell us, and armed with your knowledge in recovery, my best suggestion is to relook at your boundaries, affirm they are as they should be and keep the focus on you. I can tell from experience that second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth changes with my qualifiers (husband + 2 sons) have not done a bit of good. Conditions, boundaries, etc. are only as good as I am able to hold to them and HP will lead them where he wants them to go.
Live your life, stay in the day and keep your focus on you and your recovery. Alcoholism is a disease - untreated alcoholism is difficult to understand/accept and it's even harder at times when we have experienced the gifts of recovery to let go of others we want to see 'get it'....but it is possible and true love is allowing another to experience what they need to in this life.
Keep coming back - you can certainly love him from across the street for a while and work your program to gain more clarity. That's what I do when I am not sure what else to do.
You are not alone - (((hugs)))...
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Keep coming back Moondancer - we collectively walk this path with each other and it's truly a gift and great addition for my recovery!!
(((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Dancer I am also a double and entered AA from Al-Anon and college and being a therapist and more. Our disease is cunning, powerful and baffling and we are only a couple little victims who have stood in its way...it doesn't care. I have learned from hundreds of fellows in both programs that powerlessness is one key characteristic which we share for recovery. I have to admit it daily that I am unconditionally powerless and ought not attempt to consider that I have any power in reserve. "Admitted we were powerless over alcohol and that our lives had become unmanageable" I am powerless over the chemical and the alcoholic and I have no reprieve from it. I know as you know what it is like to be over powered by the chemical. I know as you know how many false promises I have made to myself and others that I could and would stop drinking on my own and how many times I reneged on that intention.
I know that alcohol on many occasions kept me drinking beyond reason and took me to the doors of the grave...I have never met any other alcoholic who came close to the power over the chemical that I thought I would have...none. If I were able to just stop on promise I would not have anything anywhere as alluring and powerful to fill its place. I tried relationships and ended up with alcoholics and addicts as relationships...as it should be.
My early Al-Anon sponsor told me that I was going to have to move away from all things alcohol and that was a big group...my family of origin and my wife and then I was so interested in rescuing my life from alcohol and drug depression that I did it. I became a member of the Al-Anon family groups and started living my miracle. I loved my alcoholic/addict wife and found no reason to be married to her and even after 5 years of her own recovery we both had the same impression. We parted in love and I hope and pray she is still clean and sober. My HP used her as the definition of humility I carry with me now...Her courage and understanding of humility and courage and persistence was astounding.
Self care for me means no mind and mood altering chemicals period regardless of who participates and to what degree. I don't make an issue of it I remove myself from the influences whatever the degree. I have chosen to abandon myself to God as I understand God and remain within HP's lamp light. That isn't easy and then drinking a fifth of booze and attempting to stay unaffected by it wasn't easy either.
Stay with us here at MIP and bring your ESH for others to see and maybe sample and remain serene and sober. I am grateful you are here. ((((hugs))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Thursday 12th of May 2016 01:04:03 PM
Moon, also a double here...my thought is he sounds insecure and needy and waffles like an active alcoholic. Furthermore, even if HE DID go to AA, that would make him a newcomer and you with sooooo much more sobriety than him. It would be annoying and I suspect this may be why you already "don't feel the same." You are perhaps seeing him as a relapsing newcomer (signing is own BS). I'm betting you've seen that bunches in AA and alanon already and that is killing your ability to envision things progressing with him.
Yes, Pinkchip, you called him correctly. As of today, he broke it off with me because I detached and wouldn't play his manipulative games and deal with the waffling and selfishness. On Tuesday night, he asked me to spend the weekend at his house making our relationship a priority, promising not to work, saying we'll go out for dinner and dancing, etc. My hopes were up although tampered with distrust for us reconnecting, especially with his new-found desire to stop drinking...ahh yes..so wrong! I sure learned once more that this disease is so powerful and my b.f. is not at a place where he can even begin to understand how loving, respectful relationships work..he is not sober.
Here comes the waffling! Within 48 hours, he did a complete turn around, saying he had to work on Saturday because it's important to be there because he made a mistake on a part and his boss may ask him to fix it and it might not be good if he refused but he would refuse if I asked him to and 'after all, you didn't give me a firm commitment on which days you were coming up and I did hear you say you had to go to the land fill on Saturday' To which I replied, " I can go to the landfill this Saturday or next. It's not important when it comes to our plans. I reminded him I had said I was going to come up Friday and Saturday, just had to double check to make sure my kids were good and they are. He then insists 'well I remember you said you HAD to go to the landfill!" Really?? I just detached..gave up..makes no sense to argue his perspective is his perspective and he evidently didn't want to have me around Friday night and Saturday morning..Fridays were drinking nights with his son. I said I'd get back to him regarding his offer to have me spend Saturday afternoon and overnight instead of the weekend..I had to fit into his plan. I just gave up at this point..letting it go and decided to meditate to get a direction from my H.P. and talk to my sponsors..On Thursday morning my daughter was sick with the stomach flu, so I was unsure if I wanted to be away from home if she was not feeling better. I told him yesterday morning that I would come up depending on if Caela was better. Yesterday, annoyed that I hadn't given him a definite answer, he texted me that he was leaving work early and going home to go camping and would be 'off the grid' or in other words, unavailable to communicate with me (and most likely drinking.) my punishment, evidently, for things not going his way. This morning, not wanting to dance the dance, with my daughter still sick though getting better, and detaching, I said that I would be unavailable for the weekend but wished him a good one himself. In a text response this morning he wrote 'Thank you for making it easier for me. Saying good bye to you is so hard I almost cannot do it You have so much going on in your life and you must do what you must. I will miss you. Good bye." So there you go. His commitment was very tenuous if one weekend of plans would lead to his breaking off with me..I suspect however that he considered me his crutch to stop drinking and if I wasn't going to play his controlling games and keep him happy and close to me, then he would then drink. I'm feeling great relief although sad..I hate this disease and pray his H.P. watches over him as he walks his path. So few of us make it to sobriety. I, however, have made the decision that I must stay away from the trigger of being in a relationship with anyone new in sobriety or actively drinking. My Alanon sponsor, all of your posts, and my own experience has given me the awareness that people at that place in their lives, newly in program or even with a desire to stop drinking have a long road and lots of healing to do on their own. It's just not possible for a person who has just stopped drinking (whether in AA or not) to be able to be a healthy partner in a relationship. My b.f. and I are in two different places and that's ok for today. As one of you had said, I will continue to love him but from waaaaaaaay across the street:) Much love and gratitude to you all!
