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To begin, I know there are other older threads regarding relationships and how they are affected. This isn't easy to say and I hope I don't come across as some self centred fool but here goes...
I have been with my partner for nearly 7 years (I'm 37 he's 33) and engaged for most of that time. Whilst I have no hesitation to say how grateful I am that my partner has remained sober for nearly 3 years I am concerned my relationship has badly suffered through the advice he has been getting and how he uses it.
Firstly I admit when we first met I knew he was alcoholic and before he discovered AA he had made the first admission he was one and was trying to seek help so yes I was proud of him and AA has kept him sober so far so (so good right?). He came to live in the West-Country to look after an elderly relative who as dementia and indeed it is noble and I love her as much as if she were my own flesh and blood and his family are lovely none of these things were a shock or surprise and understood his role as her carer before we even got together. The main reason he came down here was his family also needed to kill two birds with one stone how to stop their son running with a destructive association of friends and keep their mother out of a home as long as possible (Those places are bloody expensive and she still has a little independence still) all noble intentions for which I cannot deny lined with not so good ones.
I helped him get his first job after several years of being unemployed he was given a try and has been there ever since, I am his first proper relationship and I have been there for him seeing him change from a shell into a confident man, I have even been helping him learn to drive yet there has been a hiatus lately because he decided he doesn't need to learn despite it being a very important factor in his livelihood (I seem to have become his taxi). I even gave up the idea I'd ever have children because I love him. But trust is evaporating and fast and I have to admit him not wanting a family seems to stem from his parents separating around the time he started drinking at 18.
I don't think he'll cheat so that finger has not been pointed at him my trust is that I know for a fact he talks about me behind my back (a hastily but not hung up phone call where I heard every detail of him and his workmates/boss slagging me off still haunts me). Promises never kept or whimsy plans broken. I call them whimsy because I don't believe he'll carry them out as he is a procrastinator.
And the elderly relative? Well this is the part that is going to sound ungrateful but it's not I am thankful I am but as many are aware it gets worse not better. Mentioning the future and getting married get brushed away under the carpet. Moving out well that's when he either goes on about being this year (He's said it for at least four of those so far) and when he does well almost without hesitation it's either a work buddy (male) or buggering off back up North to live with his mum no question about it I am not even a factor. I'm not the type to make an ultimatum I feel people should choose of their own free will but this is where AA as nice as they are come into this story.
I know he shares about me and he gave me a rather biblical lecture about finding my own way yada,yada,yada in the next breath he states he isn't religious but it sure sounded like if he'd had a pulpit he would have made a speech that evening. He has to take it one day at a time, that's fine but forget about even asking what he hopes for the future 'I can't plan that far ahead'. not even a day dream not even a procrastination? Nope, nada not about the future, our future it seems apparent there isn't one. The relative his grandparent he forgets eventually will either pass away or sadly need to be in somewhere which I feel is fast approaching as they have been doubly incontinent recently and the frequency of these incidents is getting more common place, been accosted every five minutes about the weather, lunch, a job that they retired from over thirty years ago or bloody cats real or imaginary it is quite frankly water torture for the soul as any carer will tell you if they are honest about it no matter how much they love them.
So you can see why I can't and won't make an ultimatum about her even though they are quite an effective 85year old contraceptive in our relationship. I admit too I probably haven't been a bed of roses to be around either. But after asking and asking and getting AA mantras thrown at me. He turns around and says 'I can't have an opinion in you life decisions.' or 'You have to decide what is right for you'. Although these statements are true he is pretty much separating an us to an I, a we into a me. Even stating he asked his sponsor if he could stay at his place for a few nights no letting me know until his (rather wise sponsor) politely declined.
I even dislike the saying to take each day at a time I know it is a good principle but not when your relationship has pretty much stagnated because he won't move forward. To me you may as well say 'Forget the horizon and watch your shoes they'll eventually take you where you'll end up'.
The punchline is I have decided to move out. Not break up but move out something I really don't want to do but felt if I don't our relationship will just collapse into hostile territory. I'm only a couple of hundred yards down the road if that but now he tells me he is getting separation anxiety as I decided to set a moving out date partly from necessity and partly because I feel it will make it easier for him to come to terms with and understand it is a moving out not breaking up. The ball is firmly in his court as I am fed up of chasing after him for approval and sick of the negative and rather argumentative comments he makes about me.
I also don't like being referred to as 'You won't ever understand your not in AA.' or 'Only someone without an addiction would say that'. I'm a them according to him and his AA friends quite honestly as lovely and polite as his friends are I feel they will put me in a corner with a dunces hat with Not AA hastily scrawled on it and give me a set of earphones to block out the recycled stories and anecdotes that surprisingly when I have gone to open meetings actually understand and appreciate and of course, would never repeat (That is another story).
I feel I have lost friends because of it, lost my confidence as he never has anything positive to say, I feel judged by his friends and workmates and I damned well know s**t is flying around the village about me village life is like that. I never have minded being alone but it is a bitter pill when you become lonely especially in a relationship where you feel you're the only one using a paddle in s**tcreek.
I feel it is make or break time I know it's harsh and many people I know have taken hell of a lot longer with hell of a lot more to lose than me. I doubt I'll ever have a family my clock warns me of such I'm not the type to use making a family into a band aid onto a metaphorical broken leg. I am working hard to make a career change because my previous choices were harmful and in hope something stable would come along also to help us move in together.
So some might feel I am being selfish abandoning a man that cares for an elderly relative; who does have a heart and a big one at that and that he would do anything for anyone I must emphasise he's not an all out b*****d that would be wrong just a whimsy procrastinating AA'er that found God (but not God) and who would rather stare at his shoelaces than see what is in front of him or wonder what is beyond the horizon.
I hope you don't mind the share unfortunately I find it difficult to get to Al-Anon meetings in the flesh so to speak and this is the most detailed share I have the last one I admit I was in tears (Shortly after the hanging up not hanging up thing that ripped at my very fibre) and barely made a coherent verbal sentence at the time.
I'm glad you have found us and am sorry you are undergoing so many painful things.
There are online Al-Anon meetings on this site if you can't get to anything in your area.
Your guy seems to have progressed to a certain point with AA, and if he is not drinking that is a thing to be celebrated. So he is emotionally healthier than he was than he was drinking. But just being in AA alone doesn't mean a person is emotionally healthy. He's better than he was (when he was drinking), but that's a pretty low bar! So we don't have to conclude that if he's in AA, he's practicing good relationship habits. AA can't strongarm anyone into being a good partner - it only offers the tools if they decide they want to be.
I've found that we Al-Anoners tend to give and sacrifice and wait and hope, all the time worrying that we are too selfish. We hope that our sacrifice will be acknowledged and that we will be compensated in love and caring. Sadly we tend to find and stick with the ones who take us for granted.
You've moved to a different part of the country for your guy, you've given up the idea of having children (with him, anyway), you've put your marriage hopes on hold, you've endured the fact that you've overheard him criticizing you and being okay with others criticizing you. Those are pretty substantial things. Moving out and detaching sound totally warranted, in my book.
It also stands to reason that once you are less attached, he starts to try to draw you back in. I imagine every one of us involved with an alcoholic (drinking or not) has seen this behavior.
I was just reading a book that talked about this phenomenon - "Attached" by Amir Levine - you can read the opening pages on Amazon. (Hope this is okay to mention - it's not Al-Anon literature - someone delete if not.) Anyway, I recognized alcoholic behavior right away, even though it goes on in non-alcoholics too. The "Come be with me but then keep your distance" behavior of one person, and the "You are making me crazy, all I want is some real caring" behavior of the other person, and the dynamic that evolves.
The good news is that to change the dynamic all it needs is for one person to be different. You are on your way already, as you have decided to move out and to explore the tools of Al-Anon. I hope you'll read through these threads, try the online meetings, and keep coming back. Hugs.
Sounds like someone who's stuck at a level in AA. My wife talks about them occasionally, she has meetings she won't go to anymore because those particular ones are filled with them. The "you wouldn't understand you're not an A" people, who ca'n't deal being with anyone but another (barely) recovering alcoholic..
But in Al Anon, we have found that it's best not to even worry about those questions. The real question is about us. What are we willing to put up with? What behaviors do we find acceptable or not? And what to do if we come in contact with unacceptable behaviors.
It sounds to me like you have thought these questions out well, and incredibly patiently. Moving out seems like a logical next move to you, so you are doing it, but as gently as possible. I don't know how you could be nicer or more gentle about this, but he wants you to come back now that you are actually setting a boundary and acting on it. it's not just alcoholics that don't like change, most people don't like it. But change has to happen for other changes to happen, as you seem well aware. moving out, then breaking up, are the logical results of unacceptable behavior, but he hasn't yet experienced it. Just like when he hit bottom that caused him to finally decide not to drink, he will need to hit bottom to appreciate the relationship. Caution: just like with alcoholics, he may never find his bottom.
I don't think you are being selfish. And I think you should keep coming back here if you can't get to a face to face meeting. After a little while here you will likely be able to go in the flesh.
You sound clear about what you want. This man may not be able to provide what you need. He may not be capable of the healthy emotional intimacy needed to sustain the relationship. This may very well be the best he can give. This kind of intimate bond isn't something that evolves with time and experience in a partnership. It's a capacity to experience mature love. Some people never reach that level of intimacy and are better matched with another immature person. Such people can be loving, caring, wonderful there's no denying it. On the other hand taking a relationship to the level of a serious commitment which would involve an additional layer a deepened intimacy can arouse fear in a person who may not know how fill such a role nor desire to do so.
This is basically where the rubber meets the road and we as Alanon make a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves and what was the hook, what attracted us and why do we stay? What are we getting out of it?
If it works for you, there is no reason to hold it up to the light and compare it to the relationships of other couples. It's your life. If something is lacking, space to yourself seems fair to take. He may have some abandonment but that's his to work with a sponsor.
Maybe you'll try the online meetings here and find your answers through your higher power the steps. No guilt about taking space to think things through.
Thanks for sharing. Hope you keep coming back for recovery with us. ((hugs))) tt
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
Wow this could have been my story and Kenny pretty much summed up the attitude. I think you are discovering what type of relationship you want. If I had recognized some of this at the time, I would have done it a bit differently. I think I would have asked for what I needed and wanted and when I didn't get a good response...I think I would have walked away sooner.
Welcome Tigerfly to MIP - so glad you found us and so glad that you joined in to share! I am a double winner, so can shed a small amount of ESH (Experience, Strength & Hope) from both sides of the table - AA & Al-Anon. One point that popped into my mind is in AA, we are taught that emotional maturity ceases at the point of conception of the disease. So, while his age may be in his 30s, his maturity will be well below this.
Also, 3 years sober is still reasonably fresh in AA. Each journey in recovery (AA & Al-Anon) are personal and unique and there is no time-frame or graduation. The only person that should measure his progress in his recovery is him. And I've seen people who work hard/fast on the steps, and relapse and I've seen others who take their time and relapse and then yet others who never work all 12 steps and never drink again, but get stuck. It's a life-long process and in AA, they do celebrate sobriety, not relationships, not successful marriages, etc. My point - in his way of thinking (right, wrong or indifferent), he's doing his best even if you don't think so.
My experience in AA meetings is similar to Al-Anon meetings. They don't focus on other people - if you're made mention it is because you are integrated with an issue he is having. I can't say I've ever been in a meeting where a member was trash-talking a partner, wife, etc. but there was mention made. If his group allows this, it is a 'growth-defeating' portion of the program that I've not seen (28.5 years sober).
Which brings me to Al-Anon. Al-Anon tells us to keep the focus on us. To work our own recovery and learn different ways to deal/heal and be. Our journey is also unique and personal. When one party of a relationship is in recovery and the other is not, usually one will outgrow the other. As suggested above, there are online meetings here if you can't find or get to local ones. The schedule is up to the top, left hand side. To the top right hand side, you can see the 12 Steps of Al-Anon, and do some study there.
I am sorry that the disease is affecting your life...alcoholism is a progressive, powerful disease that can be fatal. There is no cure, but there is hope in recovery. Only you can decide what's best for your future and I believe that helping yourself with some Al-Anon would give you tools to decide more clearly. While we each come to Al-Anon with a different story, what connects us is trying to learn new ways of coping with the disease.
Please keep coming back and know that you are not alone. (((Hugs))) to you!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I am sorry you are going through this. It sounds like you really need Alanon to begin the work for your own recovery. I based my whole life, identity, feelings, moods around my alcoholic partner too and it was the wrong thing to do. It wasnt fair on him. It was never his job to make me happy, ever. That job was always mine. He never had it in him to meet my needs and why should he they were my needs. It sounds harsh. I had this crazy idea that love was this needy, demanding, codependant two become one nonsense swirling about in my head for years. Not sure where the ideas came from, could be Disney, movies and magazines definately had an impact on me. I also never had a relationship between a man and woman modelled to me while I was young so I had no idea really.
Your relationship sounds pretty unhealthy, codependant and fear based. It sounds like he is getting some awareness through AA about this and of course you dont like it, its shaking it up but unfortunately the gap between you will grow and grow unless you yourself chase growth. He growing and your not. Alanon is the answer. good luck
Tigerlily... I would like to say that I have experienced this and it does happen. I would also disagree that he is the only one growing. The fact that you are trying to understand what is happening indicates growth.
A healthy relationship consists of two people with boundaries. It sounds like this is crossing your boundaries.
